IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

And I'm not to tell you income tax rate (which would lead to telling you my income)...

Income tax rate in France is 10% - 48.09% and VAT is 19.6%.

So we can assume all citizens pay from 29% to 67% if all products and services are also taxed.

Francis doesn't live in Switzerland, George, where the currency in Franks.

They've Euros in France.

What is the 'adjusted tax rate' in CA if you include your medical benefits into that equation? Make sure to include your employers contributions.

Cyclo, i think that's the first post you and i have agreed (mostly) on. though, i don't think the illegal immigrants could afford to work if they had to pay taxes. i'd still prefer to ship them back - but that's another thread.

i'm not sure that dissolving private insurance companies is the best way to go about this. perhaps instead of destroying those companies, the government could create one of its own. it could run a non-profit, gov't funded insurnace company that anyone could buy into, for cheaper rates. though i think it fair to realize that even that system would have a large set of claims that it would not allow. but perhaps that would allow some of the poorer people to afford insurance while not removing the private insurance that the other half like.

USAFHokie80 wrote:

Cyclo, i think that's the first post you and i have agreed (mostly) on. though, i don't think the illegal immigrants could afford to work if they had to pay taxes. i'd still prefer to ship them back - but that's another thread.

i'm not sure that dissolving private insurance companies is the best way to go about this. perhaps instead of destroying those companies, the government could create one of its own. it could run a non-profit, gov't funded insurnace company that anyone could buy into, for cheaper rates. though i think it fair to realize that even that system would have a large set of claims that it would not allow. but perhaps that would allow some of the poorer people to afford insurance while not removing the private insurance that the other half like.

A sensible approach in your second paragraph. Follow-up ideas:

- nobody could be denied for said plan, even with prior medical problems, but that doesn't guarantee that the plan will pay for the most expensive surgeries; just that, even if you have something expensive, you're still covered for the cheap stuff.

- Combine enrollment in said plan with the 'health savings account' idea; let those who pay the cheapest rates put aside extra money tax-free in order to help cover the stuff that isn't covered under the gov't plan. Use that money in order to help keep the entire system profitable.

- As we're talking about a huge program, there NEED to be a list of drugs that are offered at a significant discount; it doesn't have to be the most esoteric list, but there are a lot of drugs which currently aren't 'generic' any longer due to some finagaling by the drug companies. A large enough pool of buyers could get rid of that.

I'll think about this some more tonight.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

USAFHokie80 wrote:

Cyclo, i think that's the first post you and i have agreed (mostly) on. though, i don't think the illegal immigrants could afford to work if they had to pay taxes. i'd still prefer to ship them back - but that's another thread.

i'm not sure that dissolving private insurance companies is the best way to go about this. perhaps instead of destroying those companies, the government could create one of its own. it could run a non-profit, gov't funded insurnace company that anyone could buy into, for cheaper rates. though i think it fair to realize that even that system would have a large set of claims that it would not allow. but perhaps that would allow some of the poorer people to afford insurance while not removing the private insurance that the other half like.

A sensible approach in your second paragraph. Follow-up ideas:

- nobody could be denied for said plan, even with prior medical problems, but that doesn't guarantee that the plan will pay for the most expensive surgeries; just that, even if you have something expensive, you're still covered for the cheap stuff.

- Combine enrollment in said plan with the 'health savings account' idea; let those who pay the cheapest rates put aside extra money tax-free in order to help cover the stuff that isn't covered under the gov't plan. Use that money in order to help keep the entire system profitable.

- As we're talking about a huge program, there NEED to be a list of drugs that are offered at a significant discount; it doesn't have to be the most esoteric list, but there are a lot of drugs which currently aren't 'generic' any longer due to some finagaling by the drug companies. A large enough pool of buyers could get rid of that.

I'll think about this some more tonight.

Cycloptichorn

i have a HSA through my company... it works for me. there is a way to get many expensive drugs for free or at a huge discount. there are actually people whose entire job is to fill out paperwork for people to do this. that being said, many drugs cannot and will not have a generic form for several years. if a company develops a drug, that drug has a patent that is upheld by the supreme court. you can't allow a generic to be made against their will else you will undermine all other copyrights and IP. i know wal mart already has a large formulary of common antibiotics and other drugs that range from $4 to $8 for a month's supply.

USAFHokie80 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

USAFHokie80 wrote:

Cyclo, i think that's the first post you and i have agreed (mostly) on. though, i don't think the illegal immigrants could afford to work if they had to pay taxes. i'd still prefer to ship them back - but that's another thread.

i'm not sure that dissolving private insurance companies is the best way to go about this. perhaps instead of destroying those companies, the government could create one of its own. it could run a non-profit, gov't funded insurnace company that anyone could buy into, for cheaper rates. though i think it fair to realize that even that system would have a large set of claims that it would not allow. but perhaps that would allow some of the poorer people to afford insurance while not removing the private insurance that the other half like.

A sensible approach in your second paragraph. Follow-up ideas:

- nobody could be denied for said plan, even with prior medical problems, but that doesn't guarantee that the plan will pay for the most expensive surgeries; just that, even if you have something expensive, you're still covered for the cheap stuff.

- Combine enrollment in said plan with the 'health savings account' idea; let those who pay the cheapest rates put aside extra money tax-free in order to help cover the stuff that isn't covered under the gov't plan. Use that money in order to help keep the entire system profitable.

- As we're talking about a huge program, there NEED to be a list of drugs that are offered at a significant discount; it doesn't have to be the most esoteric list, but there are a lot of drugs which currently aren't 'generic' any longer due to some finagaling by the drug companies. A large enough pool of buyers could get rid of that.

I'll think about this some more tonight.

Cycloptichorn

i have a HSA through my company... it works for me. there is a way to get many expensive drugs for free or at a huge discount. there are actually people whose entire job is to fill out paperwork for people to do this. that being said, many drugs cannot and will not have a generic form for several years. if a company develops a drug, that drug has a patent that is upheld by the supreme court. you can't allow a generic to be made against their will else you will undermine all other copyrights and IP. i know wal mart already has a large formulary of common antibiotics and other drugs that range from $4 to $8 for a month's supply.

Yeah - but there are ways that companies get around the 'generic' formulations, ie, they make meaningless changes in order to get granted new patents. Like the color of the pill, for example. Another example, my GF has asthma; her inhalers - a quite common device, with the basic formulation unchanged for years - aren't generic any longer, due to changes in the accelerant used to propel the drug out of the device. So what used to cost her $5 is now closer to $45. Gotta do away with that.

Cycloptichorn

i wonder, cyclo... suppose this system we just spoke about is implemented... will the poor of the country, those without current coverage, bother to buy in? i imagine a lot of them will refuse to as they'll see it as another monthly expense they cannot afford - especially if they know they can keep using the ER as their personal doctor. how do we combat that?

USAFHokie80 wrote:

Cyclo, i think that's the first post you and i have agreed (mostly) on. though, i don't think the illegal immigrants could afford to work if they had to pay taxes. i'd still prefer to ship them back - but that's another thread.

i'm not sure that dissolving private insurance companies is the best way to go about this. perhaps instead of destroying those companies, the government could create one of its own. it could run a non-profit, gov't funded insurnace company that anyone could buy into, for cheaper rates. though i think it fair to realize that even that system would have a large set of claims that it would not allow. but perhaps that would allow some of the poorer people to afford insurance while not removing the private insurance that the other half like.

A sensible approach in your second paragraph. Follow-up ideas:

- nobody could be denied for said plan, even with prior medical problems, but that doesn't guarantee that the plan will pay for the most expensive surgeries; just that, even if you have something expensive, you're still covered for the cheap stuff.

- Combine enrollment in said plan with the 'health savings account' idea; let those who pay the cheapest rates put aside extra money tax-free in order to help cover the stuff that isn't covered under the gov't plan. Use that money in order to help keep the entire system profitable.

- As we're talking about a huge program, there NEED to be a list of drugs that are offered at a significant discount; it doesn't have to be the most esoteric list, but there are a lot of drugs which currently aren't 'generic' any longer due to some finagaling by the drug companies. A large enough pool of buyers could get rid of that.

I'll think about this some more tonight.

Cycloptichorn

The net difference of about 14% of income would, for nearly all our population, easily pay for private medical coverage, usually leaving a good deal left over.