IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

When we start seeing a shortage of doctors, the amount the remaining ones can charge goes up; this leads to more people wishing to be doctors. Not a hard thing to imagine, the free market balances itself out.

If taxpayers want better and more equipment for their hospitals and clinics, they vote to provide it. If they don't, they don't. Not a complicated process, and no less inefficient and costly then the current model.

Doctors can be mandated to accept Medicare patients; they are free to look for employment elsewhere if they don't want to, and we could easily find qualified doctors from abroad who wouldn't mind doing so.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

When we start seeing a shortage of doctors, the amount the remaining ones can charge goes up; this leads to more people wishing to be doctors. Not a hard thing to imagine, the free market balances itself out.

If taxpayers want better and more equipment for their hospitals and clinics, they vote to provide it. If they don't, they don't. Not a complicated process, and no less inefficient and costly then the current model.

Doctors can be mandated to accept Medicare patients; they are free to look for employment elsewhere if they don't want to, and we could easily find qualified doctors from abroad who wouldn't mind doing so.

Cycloptichorn

Please reread the above comments and count the many contradictions in them. Who is not being serious here?

Where to begin?

Medicare does not involve a 'Free market'. The authorized services are defined a priori, as are the fees for them. Reducing the number of providers or doctors will not increase the revenue per doctor (unless the service itself is rendered more quickly and superficially), it will instead merely increase the waiting time for access. There is no supply-demand prioce feedback for investment stimulus or "balancing out".

Doctors cannot be ordered to accept Medicare patients under our system of laws and rights. They are not slaves. Perhaps you imagine a system in which medical care is made the exclusive province of government and doctors become government employees. This is no "free market".

You should contemplate for a moment the general wisdom and efficiency that surrounds investment and customer accountability in our public schools, as you urge us to accept the same model for medical care. In practice it turns out that this "not complicated" process is very far less efficient and far more costly than the private alternatives. Indeed the very European programs that are held up as models for us are slowly being cut back and restricted by governments that know they can no longer afford them, but which face popuulations addicted to them and unwilling to face reality.

Indeed the very European programs that are held up as models for us are slowly being cut back and restricted by governments that know they can no longer afford them, but which face popuulations addicted to them and unwilling to face reality.

, but which face popuulations addicted to them and unwilling to face reality.

In practice it turns out that this "not complicated" process is very far less efficient and far more costly than the private alternatives. Indeed the very European programs that are held up as models for us are slowly being cut back and restricted by governments that know they can no longer afford them, but which face populations addicted to them and unwilling to face reality. (No surprise that passengers on a sinking ship might wish us to join them, but not in our interest to do so.)

georgeob1 wrote:

Where to begin?

Medicare does not involve a 'Free market'. The authorized services are defined a priori, as are the fees for them. Reducing the number of providers or doctors will not increase the revenue per doctor (unless the service itself is rendered more quickly and superficially), it will instead merely increase the waiting time for access. There is no supply-demand prioce feedback for investment stimulus or "balancing out".

Doctors cannot be ordered to accept Medicare patients under our system of laws and rights. They are not slaves. Perhaps you imagine a system in which medical care is made the exclusive province of government and doctors become government employees. This is no "free market".

You should contemplate for a moment the general wisdom and efficiency that surrounds investment and customer accountability in our public schools, as you urge us to accept the same model for medical care. In practice it turns out that this "not complicated" process is very far less efficient and far more costly than the private alternatives. Indeed the very European programs that are held up as models for us are slowly being cut back and restricted by governments that know they can no longer afford them, but which face popuulations addicted to them and unwilling to face reality.

Doctors can be forced to accept Medicare patients under our set of rules. Or they can lose their licensing. You seem to think that the people of the US don't have the ability to make changes to our society if we wish to do so.

This

Quote:

Indeed the very European programs that are held up as models for us are slowly being cut back and restricted by governments that know they can no longer afford them, but which face popuulations addicted to them and unwilling to face reality.

Could be rewritten the exact same way, substituting our information for Europe's - and be just as accurate.

Let me ask you - instead of attacking my position, what would your solution for the currently unworkable mess the insurance/health industry has become? I haven't seen anything put forth by the right wing which stands to correct the problem in any way. Do you deny there is a problem at all?

Cycloptichorn

I notice you didn't respond to the earlier piece, in which the insurance company actively and specifically sought to deny claims which were covered, and which were not 'coding problems' from the hospital, Hokie; not surprising, as it contradicts your narrative.

I will ask you the same as George: what would you propose, to fix our problems with insurance in this country?

Cycloptichorn

Doctors can be forced to accept Medicare patients under our set of rules. Or they can lose their licensing. You seem to think that the people of the US don't have the ability to make changes to our society if we wish to do so.

Let me ask you - instead of attacking my position, what would your solution for the currently unworkable mess the insurance/health industry has become? I haven't seen anything put forth by the right wing which stands to correct the problem in any way. Do you deny there is a problem at all?

Your pet stance, George. But ask an addict to give up his habit...

It's more complicated than that, people don't want to loose their privileges, they just don't care who pays...

And governments rarely have the balls to change it because next time they will not be elected..

I see that you are acknowledging your own addiction.

Just for drill, roughly what is the marginal income tax rate that you pay - i.e. the tax rate ( Both national and local government)on the last Franc of your income? Here, in California it is 41%.

Well you have not yet put forward any particular position, apart from a few assertions about regulating the behaviors of doctors and hospitals. Neither have you answered the seriously put reservations I put forward about them.

In general I would reduce the role of the Federal government in health care and look for solutions through the free market and local government as may be found beneficial. I am profoundly suspicious of those who niavely believe that "systematic" solutions for such problems can or must be found. Indeed the attempt to find them usually creates worse problems.

There is no simple fix for this. The issues in health care and insurance are more than what you're focusing on.

All you seem to care about it what a person has to pay for insurance.

If people took better care of themselves, that would help costs go down.

If people weren't so sue-happy, costs would go down.

If we weren't forced to provide thousands of dollars of care to illegal immigrants, costs would go down. There are LOTS of reasons costs for health care are high.

Having a government run system isn't going to fix them all. And there's a good possibility it will decrease the quailty of care available.

I see that you are acknowledging your own addiction.