IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

mm wrote :

Quote:

So,why couldnt she get the surgery in Canada?
I thought their healthcare was better then ours.

just speaking personally , i don't think i have said that canadian healthcare is BETTER , just that we call it UNIVERSAL - and i'm NOT WILLING TO GIVE IT UP !

people that have lots of money - or not that much money (see article by AARP below) - will go wherever they think they can get the health care they prefer AND can afford .

i really don't want to go into a long , drawn-out debate here .
americans have their style of health-care and the canadian is somewhat different - as long as i don't have to give up my canadian healthcare , i'm happy to let the americans have their own style .

one problem for me is that american health providers want to gain access to canada under the "free trade act" and want canada to change to the american style - and i'm not in favour of that .

americans don't have all their medical needs taken care of in the USA and neither do canadians have all their health needs taken care of in canada .

i don't see any problem in that .

as an aside : our local university teaching hospital has a rather elaborate scroll displayed in its lobby .
it's a scroll of appreciation by the commander of the fort drum army base (near watertown/syracuse , NY state) , thanking the canadian hospital for medical services to some of its personnel .
it seems that canadian medical services are acceptable to the U.S. army .

many foreigners - including americans - come to the shouldice clinic in toronto that has a worldwide reputation for - of all things ! - HERNIA OPERATIONS !
saudi princes , canadian workingmen , americans that have the money : they are all welcome at the clinic .

so if some canadian has the money to go the U.S. , to mexico or to europe for a operation , i don't see anything wrong with that .

but to repeat : don't ask me to give up my canadian healthcare .
i'm reasonable sure you might be willing to agree with me .
hbg

ps. we don't mind crossing the border to watertown to pick up certain items that cost less in the U.S. , have lunch and return in the evening - and we've always been given a friendly welcome and hello by the border guards , merchants and americans in general . it seems to work well both ways - never been a problem so far !

Quote:

source :
AARP BULLETIN

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mysteryman wrote:

But,try answering my question,instead of being snide.

Oh, come on. Why should anybody take your question seriously? You're not interested in the state of the Canadian health system, or the American one. You're not interested in information about universal health care, and you're not interested in statistics. Instead, you're interested in anecdotes which make the point of how great health care in California is, and how bad it is in Canada.

And next time somebody posts an article about how Schwarzenegger Wants Universal Health Care for California and how he plans to get California's 6.5 million uninsured covered, including all children, and regardless of their immigration status, you'll be over here to criticise the Californian system...

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hbg,
nobody is asking you to give up your healthcare.

BUT,I dont want Hillary,Obama,Edwards or anyone else,including the left on here, telling me that I have to change my healthcare to suit them.

I refuse to participate in universal healthcare, yet it seems that many on here are trying to force it on those of us that dont want it.

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mysteryman wrote:

I refuse to participate in universal healthcare

Why?

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mm, I'm saying the best fake boobs are traditionally found in California, which is what Belinda went to the U.S. for.

I'm not sure if breast implants are healthcare - but if they are - I'm more happy to acknowledge California as the reigning champion.

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old europe wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
But,try answering my question,instead of being snide.

Oh, come on. Why should anybody take your question seriously? You're not interested in the state of the Canadian health system, or the American one. You're not interested in information about universal health care, and you're not interested in statistics. Instead, you're interested in anecdotes which make the point of how great health care in California is, and how bad it is in Canada.

And next time somebody posts an article about how Schwarzenegger Wants Universal Health Care for California and how he plans to get California's 6.5 million uninsured covered, including all children, and regardless of their immigration status, you'll be over here to criticise the Californian system...

Being as I am a Ca native,and lived there most of my life, I know what the Ca healthcare system is like.
I oppose ANY plan that would reward those here illegally by giving them healthcare paid for by my tax dollars,no matter where they are from.

It is not the job of the govt to decide who gets what healthcare,or how much it costs.
I dont know how good or bad the Canadian system is,and it is irrelevant to this discussion.
I am simply showing that those who claim a universal system is the best are wrong.
If it was,there would be no need for any person from a country with universal healthcare to come to the US for any type of healthcare, ever.

Here is an interesting article about Cuba's healthcare, which Michael Moore and others praise so highly...

http://www.cubaverdad.net/references/for_cubans_a_bitter_pill.htm

Here is an interesting article...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-07-21-unhealthyvisas_N.htm

While the article is dealing mainly with Work related issues,the point I am making is that NZ has universal healthcare,yet the article says this...

Quote:

Often, coming to the United States is the only choice for families seeking complicated transplants

Now,why is this if universal healthcare is the best type of healthcare system out there?

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mysteryman wrote:

I am simply showing that those who claim a universal system is the best are wrong.

I hope you don't consider this recent effort your best work.

Quote:

If it was,there would be no need for any person from a country with universal healthcare to come to the US for any type of healthcare, ever.

This is just silly.

Is a pediatrician the best at providing neurosurgery? No? Well then they must not be a very good pediatrician then huh?

Are Americans the best in the world at soccer? No? Well then I guess ALL American must be worse than the rest of the world.

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Just to reassure hamburger, I at least am not party to any effort to take away your Canadian universal health care. I really don't care what you do in Canada, as that is your business.

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maporsche wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
I am simply showing that those who claim a universal system is the best are wrong.

I hope you don't consider this recent effort your best work.

Quote:

If it was,there would be no need for any person from a country with universal healthcare to come to the US for any type of healthcare, ever.

This is just silly.

Is a pediatrician the best at providing neurosurgery? No? Well then they must not be a very good pediatrician then huh?

Are Americans the best in the world at soccer? No? Well then I guess ALL American must be worse than the rest of the world.

Now you are being silly.
If a pediatrician in Canada has the same training as one here in the US,then why do people come to the US from Canada to see a pediatrician?

Could it be because they dont want to wait like they do in Canada?
I dont know the answer to that,but I think that is one of the reasons that so many people oppose universal healthcare.

As an aside to answer your second question, the US womens soccer team IS the best in the world.
They are the defending FIFA womens world cup champoins,and it looks like they will win it again this year.

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mysteryman wrote:

I am simply showing that those who claim a universal system is the best are wrong.
If it was,there would be no need for any person from a country with universal healthcare to come to the US for any type of healthcare, ever.

I like the way you're bravely charging into the uncharted territories of logical fallacies. Let me give you a hand there:

"If the American health care system was better than that of India, there would be no need for any person from the US to go to India for any type of healthcare, ever."

How did I do?

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okie wrote :

Quote:

Just to reassure hamburger, I at least am not party to any effort to take away your Canadian universal health care. I really don't care what you do in Canada, as that is your business.

i take your word for it , okie !

but i can assure you that american heath-care providers keep knocking on the door demanding that they are allowed to operate in canada but OUTSIDE of the established system by setting up private hospitals and clinics - and therein lies the problem !

the shouldice clinic i mentioned in my earlier post , is a privately operated facility WITHIN the ontario health-care system . so any ontario patient receives the free (really : prepaid) care required ; there are no extra charges .
out-of-province patients are responsible for the charges incurred . they can have their insurance pay for it or pay it out-of-pocket .
of course , the hospital makes extra money (read : profit) from treating these private patients .

(you'll see in any ontario hospital a schedule posted showing some of the basic daily rates charged to those patient not covered by ontario health-insurance ) .
hbg

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hamburger wrote:

okie wrote :

Quote:
Just to reassure hamburger, I at least am not party to any effort to take away your Canadian universal health care. I really don't care what you do in Canada, as that is your business.

i take your word for it , okie !

Good!

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mysteryman wrote:

I refuse to participate in universal healthcare, yet it seems that many on here are trying to force it on those of us that dont want it.

I'm not trying to force it on you. I'm just trying to show the advantage.

(You have to pay here for many operations in plastic surgery as well - though I think, the one mentioned could be covered.)

Are you against insurences at all, MM? I mean, you pay fees for your fire insurence, but how much did you get back?

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
I refuse to participate in universal healthcare, yet it seems that many on here are trying to force it on those of us that dont want it.

I'm not trying to force it on you. I'm just trying to show the advantage.

(You have to pay here for many operations in plastic surgery as well - though I think, the one mentioned could be covered.)

Are you against insurences at all, MM? I mean, you pay fees for your fire insurence, but how much did you get back?

I'm not against insurance at all.
But,I dont want the govt telling me what kind of insurance to have or how much to pay.
I dont want the govt telling me what my insurance will or wont cover.

And most of all,I dont want to have to pay for your insurance or to pay for the people that choose not to have insurance.

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mysteryman wrote:

I'm not against insurance at all.

That's good.

mysteryman wrote:

But,I dont want the govt telling me what kind of insurance to have ...

Well, e.g. here in Europe you must have a car insurance. Which I think to be good.

mysteryman wrote:

... or how much to pay.

That is regulated by the market, like the health insurances.

mysteryman wrote:

I dont want the govt telling me what my insurance will or wont cover.

I think it to be quite okay that the minimum is regulated by law. We have a Federal Office for such here, which works similar to the NAIC in the USA.

mysteryman wrote:

And most of all,I dont want to have to pay for your insurance ...

Well, that really is interesting, since ... how do US-health plans and ealth insurances work then?

mysteryman wrote:

...or to pay for the people that choose not to have insurance.

I agree here. That's one of the main reasons why I prefer a compulsary universal healh care.

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How is it people think that universal health care is going to be so great for society when most of the other social programs in the US - like medicare and medicaid, social security and a few others, are by in large, failing.

Oh, and by the way Miller, if you need common antibiotics, WalMart has them for $4.

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USAFHokie80 wrote:

How is it people think that universal health care is going to be so great for society when most of the other social programs in the US - like medicare and medicaid, social security and a few others, are by in large, failing.

Please provide some examples of how these systems are failing and maybe you'll get a response. That is a pretty vague statement.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Miller, Don't you love it when these simpletons try to teach us math? LOL

It's great that you feel the need to call me a "simpleton" given you have essentially ZERO knowledge of this subject (Heal Care). All you've managed to do is paste little bits of information that you've found on google or wikipedia as if that somehow qualifies you and your opinions. It is people with that sort of mentality that cause the failure of large scale social plans. You want it free and that's all that matters.

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maporsche wrote:

USAFHokie80 wrote:
How is it people think that universal health care is going to be so great for society when most of the other social programs in the US - like medicare and medicaid, social security and a few others, are by in large, failing.

Please provide some examples of how these systems are failing and maybe you'll get a response. That is a pretty vague statement.

Sure. Medicaid and medicare are becoming more expensive, they are covering LESS and many practices and hospitals are refusing to take them because the programs do not reimburse adequately. What's the point in having a universal health system if none of the doctors (especially the better ones) will accept the plan as payment? Social security has been circling the drain for a while now. There is way more money going out than going in. I fully expect that I'll get zero benefits when I come of age.

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Hillary Care is back. Question, what qualifies this woman to have any expertise whatsoever in regard to health care, or anything in regard to policy of any kind for that matter. After all, before we went into Iraq, she consulted her own vast knowledge and all the experts she knew of and then voted in favor of going to war. Conservatives already distrust her, but based on her Iraq policy and judgement which was completely out of phase with liberals, why would any liberal trust her judgement and expertise on anything? And honest question that deserves an honest answer.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296997,00.html

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IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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