IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

So the so-called "Hillary Care" is a universal health care?

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Clinton to Offer Health Care Plan

By BETH FOUHY
Associated Press Writer

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton is unveiling a sweeping health care proposal Monday that would require everyone to carry health insurance and offer federal subsidies to help reduce the cost of coverage.

Fulfilling a pledge to bring health care to all, Clinton's "American Health Choices Plan" has a price tag of about $110 billion per year. It represents her first major effort to achieve universal health coverage since 1994, when the plan she authored during her husband's first term collapsed.

"It is long past time that Americans and the richest of all countries realize that health care is a right and not a privilege," Clinton said at a labor forum in Chicago. "And that goes especially for people who work hard every single day

Source

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CLINTON_HEALTH_CARE?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

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au, Two news items that has a bearing on universal health care. The first is the simple fact that Washington is now considering health insurance for our four million children, but expect Bush to veto the bill. The second is that under Bush's No Child Left Behind, over 7000 students drop out of school every single day - mostly students of color. According to estimates, it is believed that 57.8 percent of Latino, 53.4 percent of African, and 49.3 percent of American Indian students graduate with a regular diploma.

I believe good health has much to do with student performance, and it behooves us to help all students achieve good health and education for the future of this country. That's the only way we are going to be able to compete in the world economy.

California is still struggling to have a state-mandated universal health care. I hope they succeed, but the republicans see it as a hidden tax, and are fighting tooth and nails to make it fail. Such short-sightedness is appalling.

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So health care is now a "right"?
Tell me,does that include elective procedures,or cosmetic procedures?
Does that include people that risk themselves and their health because of their lifestyle choices?
Choices like skydiving,spelunking,smoking,driving a race car, or any other choice that risks life and limb?
Should we pay for those choices?

What about a woman wanting bigger breasts?
Should we pay for them for her?
After all,it is a medical procedure.

What about those that cant have children?
Should we pay for their medical treatments?
Those can run into the thousands of dollars.

After all,if health care is a "right", how can you deny any kind of medical procedure to anyone that wants it, for any reason.
If you deny even one such procedure, you have told that person they dont have a "right" to that procedure.
If you do that,you have effectively destroyed your whole premise that healthcare is a "right".

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MM
Clutching at straws!

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mysteryman wrote:

So health care is now a "right"?
Tell me,does that include elective procedures,or cosmetic procedures?
Does that include people that risk themselves and their health because of their lifestyle choices?
Choices like skydiving,spelunking,smoking,driving a race car, or any other choice that risks life and limb?
Should we pay for those choices?

What about a woman wanting bigger breasts?
Should we pay for them for her?
After all,it is a medical procedure.

What about those that cant have children?
Should we pay for their medical treatments?
Those can run into the thousands of dollars.

After all,if health care is a "right", how can you deny any kind of medical procedure to anyone that wants it, for any reason.
If you deny even one such procedure, you have told that person they dont have a "right" to that procedure.
If you do that,you have effectively destroyed your whole premise that healthcare is a "right".

This is ridiculous.

None of the 'rights' we have are absolute. You don't have the right to free speech at all times; fire in a theater and all.

You're attacking the idea that health care is a right, b/c it won't be complete and absolute. This is an attempt to hold it up to an impossibly high standard and really immaterial to the argument.

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
So health care is now a "right"?
Tell me,does that include elective procedures,or cosmetic procedures?
Does that include people that risk themselves and their health because of their lifestyle choices?
Choices like skydiving,spelunking,smoking,driving a race car, or any other choice that risks life and limb?
Should we pay for those choices?

What about a woman wanting bigger breasts?
Should we pay for them for her?
After all,it is a medical procedure.

What about those that cant have children?
Should we pay for their medical treatments?
Those can run into the thousands of dollars.

After all,if health care is a "right", how can you deny any kind of medical procedure to anyone that wants it, for any reason.
If you deny even one such procedure, you have told that person they dont have a "right" to that procedure.
If you do that,you have effectively destroyed your whole premise that healthcare is a "right".

This is ridiculous.

None of the 'rights' we have are absolute. You don't have the right to free speech at all times; fire in a theater and all.

You're attacking the idea that health care is a right, b/c it won't be complete and absolute. This is an attempt to hold it up to an impossibly high standard and really immaterial to the argument.

Cycloptichorn

No, I am saying that health care is not a right because it isnt.
There is noplace in the constitution that makes it a right, and there is nothing that I know of in any of the founding documents that makes it a right.

Dont get me wrong,I am not saying that people dont deserve or shouldnt get the best healthcare available.
I am saying that you or I or anyone else should not have to pay for it.
We shouldnt have to pay for the poor choices others make.
We shouldnt have to pay for other peoples lifestyle choices.

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au1929 wrote:

Clinton to Offer Health Care Plan

By BETH FOUHY
Associated Press Writer

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton is unveiling a sweeping health care proposal Monday that would require everyone to carry health insurance and offer federal subsidies to help reduce the cost of coverage.

Fulfilling a pledge to bring health care to all, Clinton's "American Health Choices Plan" has a price tag of about $110 billion per year. It represents her first major effort to achieve universal health coverage since 1994, when the plan she authored during her husband's first term collapsed.

"It is long past time that Americans and the richest of all countries realize that health care is a right and not a privilege," Clinton said at a labor forum in Chicago. "And that goes especially for people who work hard every single day

Source

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CLINTON_HEALTH_CARE?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Federal Subsidies.......You mean tax payer funded!

Health Care is a Right????? Since when?

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mysteryman wrote:

I am saying that you or I or anyone else should not have to pay for it.
We shouldnt have to pay for the poor choices others make.
We shouldnt have to pay for other peoples lifestyle choices.

You realize that you are paying for it NOW don't you through your insurance. Sure insurance charges more for SOME bad behaviors, like smoking, but it's no where near the actual cost of providing benefits to these people. The rest of that money comes out of your pockets (assuming your healthly). I've never had more than a check-up at the doctors office, no ER visits, etc, but it's not my money is going to some savings account waiting for me at the insurance company, it's going to pay for my co-workers pregnancy, or some guy's lung cancer treatments, or that guy who likes to always go 20 MPH over the speed limit and got into serious accident.

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woiyo, I have a surprise for you; everything our government does is "tax payer funded." The biggest problem we have is the 2.7 billion we're spending in Iraq every week; money that should be helping Americans.

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mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
So health care is now a "right"?
Tell me,does that include elective procedures,or cosmetic procedures?
Does that include people that risk themselves and their health because of their lifestyle choices?
Choices like skydiving,spelunking,smoking,driving a race car, or any other choice that risks life and limb?
Should we pay for those choices?

What about a woman wanting bigger breasts?
Should we pay for them for her?
After all,it is a medical procedure.

What about those that cant have children?
Should we pay for their medical treatments?
Those can run into the thousands of dollars.

After all,if health care is a "right", how can you deny any kind of medical procedure to anyone that wants it, for any reason.
If you deny even one such procedure, you have told that person they dont have a "right" to that procedure.
If you do that,you have effectively destroyed your whole premise that healthcare is a "right".

This is ridiculous.

None of the 'rights' we have are absolute. You don't have the right to free speech at all times; fire in a theater and all.

You're attacking the idea that health care is a right, b/c it won't be complete and absolute. This is an attempt to hold it up to an impossibly high standard and really immaterial to the argument.

Cycloptichorn

No, I am saying that health care is not a right because it isnt.
There is noplace in the constitution that makes it a right, and there is nothing that I know of in any of the founding documents that makes it a right.

Dont get me wrong,I am not saying that people dont deserve or shouldnt get the best healthcare available.
I am saying that you or I or anyone else should not have to pay for it.
We shouldnt have to pay for the poor choices others make.
We shouldnt have to pay for other peoples lifestyle choices.

maporsche is right; you already do pay for it, and you pay for the effects either way. People don't just sit at home and die quietly; they drive their families into ruin with medical bills, which puts 2-5 more people on the dole; they do what they have to to stay alive; they run up insurance rates as it is.

It's more efficient to short-circuit that and just attack the problem.

Cycloptichorn

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cicerone imposter wrote:

woiyo, I have a surprise for you; everything our government does is "tax payer funded." The biggest problem we have is the 2.7 billion we're spending in Iraq every week; money that should be helping Americans.

So, 2.7 billion will do what the trillions the govt has already spent on social programs hasnt done?

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Social security doesn't come close to covering everybody.

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mysteryman wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
woiyo, I have a surprise for you; everything our government does is "tax payer funded." The biggest problem we have is the 2.7 billion we're spending in Iraq every week; money that should be helping Americans.

So, 2.7 billion will do what the trillions the govt has already spent on social programs hasnt done?

MM of course you are correct. The Government has no right spending money on social programs for American citizens. Our tax dollars are better spent policing and spreading democracy and the American way throughout the world. Embarrassed

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au1929 wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
woiyo, I have a surprise for you; everything our government does is "tax payer funded." The biggest problem we have is the 2.7 billion we're spending in Iraq every week; money that should be helping Americans.

So, 2.7 billion will do what the trillions the govt has already spent on social programs hasnt done?

MM of course you are correct. The Government has no right spending money on social programs for American citizens. Our tax dollars are better spent policing and spreading democracy and the American way throughout the world.

You couldnt be more wrong,and if you think I am going to agree with you think again.
Also,if you are insinuating that I am saying that,you are completely ignorant.

I am saying that the govt does not now nor has it ever spent the money wisely.
The govts idea of solving a problem is to "throw more money at it".
The govt uses the "shotgun solution" to a problem,instead of fixing only what is broken.

No matter how much money the govt spends,there will always be poverty,there will ale=ways be people that choose to live a dangerous lifestyle.

Why sould the govt (meaning you and I) throw more and more money at people that CHOOSE to do nothing to help themselves?

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So would this universal program replace medicare and medicaid altogether?

It tends to be the people who can't afford insurance that use these social programs the most. So you have a mother with 3 kids and a crap job who pays a very very small amount of taxes, but gets benefits for 4 people. Then there is me, who has a good job, pays much more in taxes and doesn't use social medical care. How is that fair? (i am using myself only as an example, as this is obviously a much broader case)

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Those three kids are the future of this country.

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USAFHokie80 wrote:

So would this universal program replace medicare and medicaid altogether?

It tends to be the people who can't afford insurance that use these social programs the most. So you have a mother with 3 kids and a crap job who pays a very very small amount of taxes, but gets benefits for 4 people. Then there is me, who has a good job, pays much more in taxes and doesn't use social medical care. How is that fair? (i am using myself only as an example, as this is obviously a much broader case)

Yeah, that unfairness, man, that sucks. Why, these poor folks are living a cush life on our dime - never mind the fact that she, at the end of the day, is still poor as sh*t, and you, at the end of the day, are not. Christ, how much life sucks for people who aren't poor!

Cycloptichorn

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right there with you mm.

my boyfriend sees people every day that have eaten themselves into diabetes. he gets irritated because these people would be cured if they would lose some weight, exercise and eat right. but they don't want to do that - too much work. he has a patient that complains of knee pain. she's nearly 400lbs and instead of trying to lose weight, she wants a motorized cart.

i should not have to pay for any of that.

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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