65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 08:00 pm
Got her phone number handy?
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 08:10 pm
mcg :
it would be so much more personal , if you would pay her a visit and tell her :

Quote:
America is the land of opportunity, not hand-outs.

If someone can not afford health insurance, perhaps a better, more lucrative career would be in order? Or, perhaps just a career that extends past picking up the food stamps and sitting on the porch smoking and drinking anyways.


i'm sure she'll thank you for your kind words .
hbg
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 08:13 pm
McG, Give these numbers a try:

Barron, G
446 Edgewood Ave

Folsom, PA 19033

(610) 532-9628



G Barron
7135 Lincoln Dr

Philadelphia, PA 19119

(215) 247-4282
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 08:16 pm
sounds like she needs a good talking to for taking a sub prime mortgage on a home she already owned. Poor choice on her part.

Why should I feel guilty for her bad decision?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 08:23 pm
Typical McG cop-out.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 08:24 pm
mcg :
you might find it hard to understand , but :

SHE NEEDED THE MONEY TO PAY FOR HER CANCER TREATMENTS !

try to read what miller wrote - it's pretty easy to understand .
hbg
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 11:55 pm
hamburger wrote:
mcg :
you might find it hard to understand , but :

SHE NEEDED THE MONEY TO PAY FOR HER CANCER TREATMENTS !

try to read what miller wrote - it's pretty easy to understand .
hbg


Yes, she did. Cool
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 02:42 am
okie wrote:
Just where in the u.s. constitution is free health insurance stipulated, hamburger? If you can find it, please quote it.


If you strictly go by what's in the Constitution, the United States shouldn't have an Air Force or a National Aeronautics and Space Administration either.

<shrugs>

I guess it's all about priorities. If you don't let the Constitution get in the way of becoming a military superpower or putting a man on the moon, I don't see why it should stop you from getting your health care system up to the level of, uhm, Slovenia. Or Cuba.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 04:18 am
old europe wrote:
okie wrote:
Just where in the u.s. constitution is free health insurance stipulated, hamburger? If you can find it, please quote it.


If you strictly go by what's in the Constitution, the United States shouldn't have an Air Force or a National Aeronautics and Space Administration either.

<shrugs>

I guess it's all about priorities. If you don't let the Constitution get in the way of becoming a military superpower or putting a man on the moon, I don't see why it should stop you from getting your health care system up to the level of, uhm, Slovenia. Or Cuba.



Where does it say that we cant have an air force?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 04:38 am
mysteryman wrote:
old europe wrote:
okie wrote:
Just where in the u.s. constitution is free health insurance stipulated, hamburger? If you can find it, please quote it.


If you strictly go by what's in the Constitution, the United States shouldn't have an Air Force or a National Aeronautics and Space Administration either.

<shrugs>

I guess it's all about priorities. If you don't let the Constitution get in the way of becoming a military superpower or putting a man on the moon, I don't see why it should stop you from getting your health care system up to the level of, uhm, Slovenia. Or Cuba.



Where does it say that we cant have an air force?


Where does it say that you can't have universal health care?


(Unlike the land and naval forces, neither one is mentioned in the Constitution.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 06:07 am
Well, so one conservative demolishes the other.

And we (perhaps) are now discussing the topic under constitutional law ...


[... which would be at least easy for Germany, since welfare state principles are firmly established in the Basic Law (Constitution) ...]
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 07:33 am
Why the U.S. Ranks Low on WHO's Health-Care Study

The New York Times recently declared "the disturbing truth ... that ... the United States is a laggard not a leader in providing good medical care."

As usual, the Times editors get it wrong.

They find evidence in a 2000 World Health Organization (WHO) rating of 191 nations and a Commonwealth Fund study of wealthy nations published last May.

In the WHO rankings, the United States finished 37th, behind nations like Morocco, Cyprus and Costa Rica. Finishing first and second were France and Italy. Michael Moore makes much of this in his movie "Sicko."

The Commonwealth Fund looked at Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States -- and ranked the U.S. last or next to last on all but one criterion.

So the verdict is in. The vaunted U.S. medical system is one of the worst.

But there's less to these studies than meets the eye. They measure something other than quality of medical care. So saying that the U.S. finished behind those other countries is misleading.

First let's acknowledge that the U.S. medical system has serious problems. But the problems stem from departures from free-market principles. The system is riddled with tax manipulation, costly insurance mandates and bureaucratic interference. Most important, six out of seven health-care dollars are spent by third parties, which means that most consumers exercise no cost-consciousness. As Milton Friedman always pointed out, no one spends other people's money as carefully as he spends his own.

Even with all that, it strains credulity to hear that the U.S. ranks far from the top. Sick people come to the United States for treatment. When was the last time you heard of someone leaving this country to get medical care? The last famous case I can remember is Rock Hudson, who went to France in the 1980s to seek treatment for AIDS.

So what's wrong with the WHO and Commonwealth Fund studies? Let me count the ways.

The WHO judged a country's quality of health on life expectancy. But that's a lousy measure of a health-care system. Many things that cause premature death have nothing do with medical care. We have far more fatal transportation accidents than other countries. That's not a health-care problem.

Similarly, our homicide rate is 10 times higher than in the U.K., eight times higher than in France, and five times greater than in Canada.

When you adjust for these "fatal injury" rates, U.S. life expectancy is actually higher than in nearly every other industrialized nation.

Diet and lack of exercise also bring down average life expectancy.

Another reason the U.S. didn't score high in the WHO rankings is that we are less socialistic than other nations. What has that got to do with the quality of health care? For the authors of the study, it's crucial. The WHO judged countries not on the absolute quality of health care, but on how "fairly" health care of any quality is "distributed." The problem here is obvious. By that criterion, a country with high-quality care overall but "unequal distribution" would rank below a country with lower quality care but equal distribution.

It's when this so-called "fairness," a highly subjective standard, is factored in that the U.S. scores go south.

The U.S. ranking is influenced heavily by the number of people -- 45 million -- without medical insurance. As I reported in previous columns, our government aggravates that problem by making insurance artificially expensive with, for example, mandates for coverage that many people would not choose and forbidding us to buy policies from companies in another state.

Even with these interventions, the 45 million figure is misleading. Thirty-seven percent of that group live in households making more than $50,000 a year, says the U.S. Census Bureau. Nineteen percent are in households making more than $75,000 a year; 20 percent are not citizens, and 33 percent are eligible for existing government programs but are not enrolled.

For all its problems, the U.S. ranks at the top for quality of care and innovation, including development of life-saving drugs. It "falters" only when the criterion is proximity to socialized medicine.

*go to URL for embedded links
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 07:52 am
So e.g. a homicide of 0.042802 per 1,000 people (USA) verus 0.0140633 per 1,000 people (UK) makes the difference.

(Diet and lack of exercise are said to be nearly the same in both countries, though some health officials say, the UK was worse.)

But I agree that the USA is less socialistic than the UK which is run by a socialistic party.
----------------


I totally agree with that "The U.S. ranking is influenced heavily by the number of people -- 45 million -- without medical insurance."
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 09:11 am
mcg. certainly has a neat way of avoiding talking about a specific question :

WHY DID A 77 YEAR OLD WIDOW HAVE TO TAKE ON A SUB-PRIME MORTGAGE TO PAY FOR HER MEDICAL TREATMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES ?

especially since mcg. can find little fault with the U.S. system , i find it surprising that he doesn't tell us how the woman can get her treatments without going broke ?
i'm sure such valuable advice could be forwarded to ms. moss .
hbg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 09:24 am
hamburger wrote:
mcg. certainly has a neat way of avoiding talking about a specific question :

WHY DID A 77 YEAR OLD WIDOW HAVE TO TAKE ON A SUB-PRIME MORTGAGE TO PAY FOR HER MEDICAL TREATMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES ?

especially since mcg. can find little fault with the U.S. system , i find it surprising that he doesn't tell us how the woman can get her treatments without going broke ?
i'm sure such valuable advice could be forwarded to ms. moss .
hbg

I would be curious about the story of a 77 year old needing to take on a mortgage for health care, when she should have medicare. Where do you get these stories anyway?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 09:26 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
So e.g. a homicide of 0.042802 per 1,000 people (USA) verus 0.0140633 per 1,000 people (UK) makes the difference.

(Diet and lack of exercise are said to be nearly the same in both countries, though some health officials say, the UK was worse.)

But I agree that the USA is less socialistic than the UK which is run by a socialistic party.
----------------


I totally agree with that "The U.S. ranking is influenced heavily by the number of people -- 45 million -- without medical insurance."

You don't think a higher homicide rate would affect the statistics? You don't think a 32% obesity rate, the highest in the world, does not affect the statistics, Walter?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 09:30 am
What we don't know is how a universal health care system will help alleviate some of these problems of crime and obesity.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 09:40 am
hamburger wrote:
mcg. certainly has a neat way of avoiding talking about a specific question :

WHY DID A 77 YEAR OLD WIDOW HAVE TO TAKE ON A SUB-PRIME MORTGAGE TO PAY FOR HER MEDICAL TREATMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES ?

especially since mcg. can find little fault with the U.S. system , i find it surprising that he doesn't tell us how the woman can get her treatments without going broke ?
i'm sure such valuable advice could be forwarded to ms. moss .
hbg


Avoiding it? It's been answered already. Scroll back through and you will see where I and others addressed it.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 09:53 am
okie wrote:
You don't think a higher homicide rate would affect the statistics? You don't think a 32% obesity rate, the highest in the world, does not affect the statistics, Walter?


Sure.

I think a higher homicide rate affects the statistics. I think a 32% obesity rate affects the statistics. I also think that a health care system that provides health care for everyone affects the statistics.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2007 10:41 am
old europe wrote:
okie wrote:
Just where in the u.s. constitution is free health insurance stipulated, hamburger? If you can find it, please quote it.


If you strictly go by what's in the Constitution, the United States shouldn't have an Air Force or a National Aeronautics and Space Administration either.

<shrugs>

I guess it's all about priorities. If you don't let the Constitution get in the way of becoming a military superpower or putting a man on the moon, I don't see why it should stop you from getting your health care system up to the level of, uhm, Slovenia. Or Cuba.


This is a bit beneath your usual level of discourse, old europe. Don't you think you are being just a bit judgemental about the affairs of others in matters that don't even remotely affect you?

From the constitutional perspective the Air Force was merely a piece of the Army (which is mentioned in the Constitution), one which was later made a distinct organization, however, with common political governance. NASA or anything like it was not contemplated in the constitution, however, there is nothing in that document that inhibit the government from creating it.

Some aspects of the "Universal" health care systems being considered do indeed raise constitutional issues. Single payer and government managed variants will indeed likely limit the ability of both individual citizens and medical practicioners to freely contract for services under the terms they wish - rights that are guaranteed under the constitution. I agree the document is adaptive, and the organs of our government have certainly taken some of its provisions on long journeys from their literal starting points. However the attendant limits on individual freedom are real.
0 Replies
 
 

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