65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jan, 2010 04:28 pm
Obama could start by honoring his campaign promise and C-Span's request to televise the negotiations so that those affected by this legislation, the American people, are privy to the kickbacks, shady deals and 'special' provisions that are rumored to be taking place behind closed doors.

Brian Lamb's plea on 12/30/09:

President Obama, Senate and House leaders, many of your rank-and-file members, and the nation’s editorial pages have all talked about the value of transparent discussions on reforming the nation’s health care system. Now that the process moves to the critical stage of reconciliation between the Chambers, we respectfully request that you allow the public full access, through television, to legislation that will affect the lives of every single American.


Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jan, 2010 04:32 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

Obama could start by honoring his campaign promise and C-Span's request to televise the negotiations so that those affected by this legislation, the American people, are privy to the kickbacks, shady deals and 'special' provisions that are rumored to be taking place behind closed doors.

Brian Lamb's plea on 12/30/09:

President Obama, Senate and House leaders, many of your rank-and-file members, and the nation’s editorial pages have all talked about the value of transparent discussions on reforming the nation’s health care system. Now that the process moves to the critical stage of reconciliation between the Chambers, we respectfully request that you allow the public full access, through television, to legislation that will affect the lives of every single American.


Is it worth pointing out, that the President has no actual control over CSPAN or the House-Senate negotiation process?

I sometimes wonder if people are taught about Division of Government anymore, the Republicans here seem to think the Prez runs the entire show himself.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jan, 2010 04:32 pm
@Irishk,
We can always dream; when they jump from one extreme to the next after lying about transparency and "not a dime more," I don't want to listen to any more to their excuses. They had their big chance, because the American people wanted health care reform, but the president and congress blew their chances of gaining credibility this late in the process. Who's going to trust them now?
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jan, 2010 04:44 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Is it worth pointing out, that the President has no actual control over CSPAN or the House-Senate negotiation process?


That may be why Lamb addressed the letter to Pelosi, Reid, Boehner and Mitch McConnell. (Only Boehner responded that he agreed on the absolute necessity to televise the negotiations).

Perhaps Mr. Lamb had 'hope' in remembering the following:

Jan 31st, 2008 " During a Los Angeles debate with then Senator Hillary Clinton, President Obama stated “That’s what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are.”




cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jan, 2010 04:54 pm
@Irishk,
From the LA Times:
Quote:

I don't know how many folks, especially experienced political hands, really expected Obama to broadcast healthcare reform talks on C-SPAN.

But that's what candidate Obama said he would do. He promised, on several occasions, that the American people would be able to see for themselves whether their government represented their healthcare interests.

It's been clear for months -- and especially now as Democrats try to fashion a bill, even as a Massachusetts senate race erasestheir filibuster-proof majority -- that the president and the majority party have no intention of broadcasting the healthcare endgame, if they ever did.

That's turned the White House's James S. Brady Press Briefing Room into a regular skirmish zone, not just on specifics like the scuttled C-SPAN/healthcare promise but on the larger suspicion by the media that the "change" president has settled into the same cloak-and-swagger habits as some of his predecessors.

It's an age-old dance -- reporters push for information, even some they know they'll never receive. Politicians push back -- with descriptions of how much they've done and all the reasons they can't do more.

Tension between the press and the Obama administration has peaked in part because of the candidate's bold promises about being more open.


I agree; Obama made the promise even though he doesn't control C-Span.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jan, 2010 05:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I agree; Obama made the promise even though he doesn't control C-Span.


He apparently thought he controlled it ................. on at least 8 separate occasions LOL!!
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 11:53 am
Looks like the Senate bill is dead. Nancy Pelosi said they don't have the votes in the House to pass it.

From the Washington Post:

"Pelosi’s announcement means Congress faces the prospect of starting from scratch on a health-care overhaul " a massive challenge as lawmakers turn their attention to other concerns, primarily related to the economy."
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 11:58 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:


Is it worth pointing out, that the President has no actual control over CSPAN or the House-Senate negotiation process?

I sometimes wonder if people are taught about Division of Government anymore, the Republicans here seem to think the Prez runs the entire show himself.

Cycloptichorn


Are you seriously suggesting that, had the president (say) suggested that the revent negotiations with Labor unions over the proposed taxes on "cadillac" health care plans be televised on C-SPAN, the network would have refused????

You can't be serious.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 11:59 am
@Irishk,
I just wonder if they learned their lesson, or will be going back to the same process of secrecy and special deals to get their votes. If they do, they are really, really, stupid people.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 12:00 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:


Is it worth pointing out, that the President has no actual control over CSPAN or the House-Senate negotiation process?

I sometimes wonder if people are taught about Division of Government anymore, the Republicans here seem to think the Prez runs the entire show himself.

Cycloptichorn


Are you seriously suggesting that, had the president (say) suggested that the recent negotiations with Labor unions over the proposed taxes on "cadillac" health care plans be televised on C-SPAN, the network would have refused????

You can't be serious.


No, the network wouldn't have refused, but it is Pelosi and Reid who control that, not the prez.

I agree that Obama shouldn't have made the campaign promise unless he intended to hold his people in Congress to it, but it doesn't seem like he's too intent to holding them to anything he proposed, so this sure isn't surprising...

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 12:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I just wonder if they learned their lesson, or will be going back to the same process of secrecy and special deals to get their votes. If they do, they are really, really, stupid people.


Or, they really, really want to lose in November.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 12:19 pm
@Irishk,
That too! And they'll deserve losing every vote.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 12:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

[No, the network wouldn't have refused, but it is Pelosi and Reid who control that, not the prez.

I agree that Obama shouldn't have made the campaign promise unless he intended to hold his people in Congress to it, but it doesn't seem like he's too intent to holding them to anything he proposed, so this sure isn't surprising...

Cycloptichorn


Not true. These negotiations were held in the White House. The notion that Pelosi and Reid function very independently of an otherwise very popular President of the same party doesn't pass the common sense test.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 12:58 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:

Not true. These negotiations were held in the White House. The notion that Pelosi and Reid function very independently of an otherwise very popular President of the same party doesn't pass the common sense test.


Yes, it does. Just because the Republicans don't believe in separation of powers doesn't mean that this isn't the way the system was designed to work. Obama actually specifically campaigned on letting the House and Senate run themselves, instead of doing a dictatorial, top-down control system like Bush and the Republicans prefer.

Now we can see the result - health care bills not getting passed... this is extremely frustrating to me, but not inconsistent with Obama's campaign promises.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 01:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
You are evading the point. Had the president wanted reporters ot TV in the room during the White House negotiations, which HE sponsored, he would have got them. Period.

I'm not suggesting that doing so would have been a wise move - I wouldn't. Rather, I am pointing out that his original promise in this area, along with many others, was fatuous and nonsensical.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 01:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
So you're saying that when Obama told us on eight separate occasions and over a period of at least two years, he didn't understand the system?

Or he was uninformed?

You're not accusing him of being stupid, are you?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 01:18 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

So you're saying that when Obama told us on eight separate occasions and over a period of at least two years, he didn't understand the system?

Or he was uninformed?

You're not accusing him of being stupid, are you?


No, I'm not accusing him of being stupid. Some of his detractors, however...

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 01:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well, you're the one who said he doesn't understand the system.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 01:29 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

Well, you're the one who said he doesn't understand the system.


Actually, I didn't say that.

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 01:33 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Ok, you implied he doesn't understand the system. We could still go with uninformed. Apparently he doesn't understand that he didn't have the power to implement what he promised.
 

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