IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

@Cycloptichorn,

Strange how your definition of lying changes according to who you apply it to, cyclops. You do not seem to be able to differentiate opinion from absolute statements. When Bush stated an opinion, such as the probability or possibility of WMD in Iraq, which was given to him by the CIA by the way (the doctor), it was not a lie. I can only conclude, cyclops, that you are not intellectually honest, but no surprise because leftists are often not honest. Leftists cannot be honest about their ultimate goals and beliefs because they would lose in the open and honest debate of ideas. That is why one of the first things they try to do is shut down and limit the freedom of the press. I see the administration's rhetoric is becoming more shrill about Fox News and others, as if they have an obsession with anyone that disagrees with them, they simply cannot tolerate disagreement.

3 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

leftists are often not honest

keep in mind this is from someone who believes the Taliban are socialistic.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Strange how your definition of lying changes according to who you apply it to, cyclops. You do not seem to be able to differentiate opinion from absolute statements. When Bush stated an opinion, such as the probability or possibility of WMD in Iraq, which was given to him by the CIA by the way (the doctor), it was not a lie.

When he forgot to add that there was a lot of evidence that there wasn't any WMD there, that was what we call Lying by Omission.

But, that's not what I meant. I sort of meant things like Bush lying about warrantless wiretapping and torture - stuff like that, where he made affirmative statements which were lies.

Quote:

I can only conclude, cyclops, that you are not intellectually honest, but no surprise because leftists are often not honest. Leftists cannot be honest about their ultimate goals and beliefs because they would lose in the open and honest debate of ideas. That is why one of the first things they try to do is shut down and limit the freedom of the press. I see the administration's rhetoric is becoming more shrill about Fox News and others, as if they have an obsession with anyone that disagrees with them, they simply cannot tolerate disagreement.

Sure they can.

The right-wing has spent decades complaining about the news they don't like; now, the left-wing is complaining, and you think it's a sign of not 'tolerating disagreement?' Doesn't that mean that the right-wing didn't 'tolerate disagreement' with their years of complaints about the media's bias?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
leftists are often not honest
keep in mind this is from someone who believes the Taliban are socialistic.

Yes, but we are on his ignore list ...

0 Replies

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

Yes. I found the video earlier. I posted the actual quotes that can be found in the video in an earlier post.

There's Michelle Obama telling the story about how their pediatrician told them that Sasha could have meningitis, and Barack Obama saying that Sasha was diagnosed with meningitis when she was just three months old.

No evidence that a diagnosis of meningitis was never made.

Hell, I would expect nothing less from you. After all, you still think Obama is a Kenyan anti-Christ.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Somehow, that seems a very odd thing to post.

Oh, well, OE doesn't seem to be exceptionally thin skinned.

0 Replies

The following seems to be an eminently good idea.

Dems: Forget Public Option, Let's Call It Medicare

House Democrats say that while the public doesn't necessarily understand what a public option is, Medicare is well-known and, more importantly, well-liked. This rebranding strategy could help Democrats create a compromise between liberals who want the public option and those who are worried about what it would mean for the free market. The idea has been bubbling up for a few weeks and seems to have taken hold in certain House circles, although others have been quick to criticize it as an unnecessary gimmick, particularly since poll after poll shows the public supports the idea of a government-run health plan. Meanwhile, word is that House leaders have managed to cut the cost of their health plan to around $871 billion, to bring it well below the $900 billion limit set by President Obama. The news is significant because the House bill would include a public option that would pay providers at rates tied to Medicare. Liberals are particularly fond of this option because it could help drive down the cost of health care, but some Democrats from rural areas oppose the move because Medicare rates in their areas are well below the national average.

-- slatest.slate.com

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Another dynamic going on in this debate is the conservatives unwillingness to accept the public option.

I just wonder how the majority who are in favor of the public option will view conservatives in congress, and how that will reflect in the next election?

0 Replies

Ok, I'm confused as to why it matters that Obama stated (in error) that his daughter had been diagnosed with whatever when the reality was he was told she could have it. Sure, it could have been an outright lie told for whatever advantage he thought it would bring about. But it could be just as plausible that he misspoke. Big deal.

Whether he lied or not in this instance does nothing to advance an argument either way in my opinion.

2 Replies

@CoastalRat,

Wondered the same thing myself! People make big deals out of nothing. It was nothing like lying us into a war. Some people's values are all screwed up.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Strange how your definition of lying changes according to who you apply it to, cyclops. You do not seem to be able to differentiate opinion from absolute statements. When Bush stated an opinion, such as the probability or possibility of WMD in Iraq, which was given to him by the CIA by the way (the doctor), it was not a lie. I can only conclude, cyclops, that you are not intellectually honest, but no surprise because leftists are often not honest. Leftists cannot be honest about their ultimate goals and beliefs because they would lose in the open and honest debate of ideas. That is why one of the first things they try to do is shut down and limit the freedom of the press. I see the administration's rhetoric is becoming more shrill about Fox News and others, as if they have an obsession with anyone that disagrees with them, they simply cannot tolerate disagreement.

Bush knew very well that Cheney was practically living at the CIA in an effort to mold the CIA findings and conclusions. A number of top appointees and staffers of Bush have written of his lies to promote the invasion of Iraq. In fact, there was an Iraq Group in the Bush Whitehouse that was devoted to promoting the invasion. Joe Wilson reported to the administration that there was no active efforts by Iraq to purchase yellowcake, but Bush lied about this in a major speech. This bulletin board included a list of about 1,000 lies told by Bush and his people pushing for the invasion. None of this has been refuted.

Thus, your lies in connection with this are very evident.

1 Reply

@CoastalRat,

Coastal Rat, a president that lies is an issue. The reason I pointed this one out is because it is non-political, a point about his own daughter that most anyone would know if it was their daughter, don't you think?

We have gone through a round of accusations of Obama accusing Republicans of lying about his health care reform, and Republicans accusing Obama of lying about it, but if Obama can't even get it straight about his own infant daughter about something that life threatening, I doubt he has much of anything straight, that is my point.

When Wilson stood up and said that is a lie or something like that, I think in practice it was a lie and Wilson had seen enough of Obama's misrepresentations and lies. One of the most glaring is Obama's claim that everything would be done transparently and with time for everyone to study the bills, but here again, get ready for negotiations and a bill in the middle of the night. This is but one example of the many many lies. Remember the no lobbyist promise, the list is very very long, Coastal Rat.

We now have a 12% spread in people opposing Obama's health care reform over those that favor, and Obama knows he has to do this quick and without the light of day shining on the details of any bill that is rammed through. Do not trust the Dems on this, Coastal. Some poll results shown below.

"Just 31% of voters believe that Congress has a good understanding of the health care proposal.

....

Support for the health care plan proposed by the President and Congressional Democrats is down to 42%. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. "
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

2 Replies

@okie,

You would be taken more seriously if you bothered to post any other pollster besides Ras - I would note that most other pollsters are showing increases of support, not decreases.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Joe Wilson lied about his own trip, it was a sham trip, and he did nothing but sit around and have tea down there in Niger, and the facts show that Hussein had sent people to Niger for possible trade, and the only thing Niger has to trade is yellowcake. Joe Wilson essentially appointed himself to go to Niger for his own political vendetta, thats it. We've talked about this endlessly already, and your claims have been debunked, so I would appreciate it if you would quit using it.

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@okie,

I agree that Obama has lied about a number of things. But busting him on this one makes little to no sense. He may well have said diagnosed when he did not really mean diagnosed. I can see that happening.

What I don't see is why we should make a big point out of it. If he did purposely make the statement for some political purpose, then that's on him especially when it is something so easily shown to be a lie. I think in this instance he misspoke and that is the extent of it.

As for Joe Wilson, he hit the nail on the head when he accused Obama of lying, I just wish he had not done so when he did.

2 Replies

@CoastalRat,

Quote:

As for Joe Wilson, he hit the nail on the head when he accused Obama of lying, I just wish he had not done so when he did.

Not so much. Perhaps you guys could detail exactly what the lie was?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@CoastalRat,

CoastalRat wrote:

I agree that Obama has lied about a number of things. But busting him on this one makes little to no sense. He may well have said diagnosed when he did not really mean diagnosed. I can see that happening.

What I don't see is why we should make a big point out of it. If he did purposely make the statement for some political purpose, then that's on him especially when it is something so easily shown to be a lie. I think in this instance he misspoke and that is the extent of it.

As for Joe Wilson, he hit the nail on the head when he accused Obama of lying, I just wish he had not done so when he did.

Agreed, the meningitis is not a huge point, but a simple point for most people to understand about the concept of lying. The reason is that if anybody here is a parent, they would know whether their son or daughter had been diagnosed with meningitis, that is something people can relate to, it is not complicated. I am not here to make it a monumental point, but just pointed it out for anyone that cares to be honest. There are some Obama supporters that can't even be honest enough about that, and I think also that is illustrative of politics as well. Blind allegiance and blind following of a phony politician is sad, very very sad. We have a guy that has really radical people around him, and yet supposedly sane people continue to pass this off as harmless. We live in truly bizarre political times here in this country that I would never have dreamed could happen.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

A doctor telling you that your daughter "could have meningitis" is not a diagnosis, oe.

Yes. That's precisely what it is.

Here, let me give you a link:

Quote:

The process of diagnosis begins when the patient consults the doctor and presents a set of complaints (symptoms). If the patient is unconscious, this condition is the de facto complaint. The doctor then obtains further information from the patient and from those who know him or her, if present, about the patient's symptoms, their previous state of health, living conditions, and so forth.
Rather than consider the myriad diseases that could afflict the patient, the physician narrows down the possibilities to their illnesses likely to account for the apparent symptoms, making a list of only those disease (conditions) that could account for what is wrong with the patient. These are generally ranked in order of probability.
The doctor then conducts a physical examination of the patient, studies the patient's medical record, and asks further questions in an effort to rule out as many of the potential conditions as possible. When the list is narrowed down to a single condition, this is called the differential diagnosis and provides the basis for a hypothesis of what is ailing the patient.
Unless the physician is certain of the condition present, further medical tests are performed or scheduled such as medical imaging, in part to confirm or disprove the diagnosis but also to document the patient's status to keep the patient's medical history up to date.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

There are some Obama supporters that can't even be honest enough about that, and ...

1 Reply

@okie,

okie can't even respond to the contradiction stated in what determines a diagnosis. A loser.

0 Replies

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