IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

okie wrote:

It is up to you and people like you to continue to think for yourself.

No. We are absolutely against thinking for ourselves. We want to be exactly like mindless rightwing radicals, i.e., okie, and spew talking points that have been spoon fed to us by special interest groups and a 1.5 million dollar a day misinformation campaign. Only then will there be true equality in America.

Debra Law wrote:

okie wrote:

It is up to you and people like you to continue to think for yourself.

No. We are absolutely against thinking for ourselves. We want to be exactly like mindless rightwing radicals, i.e., okie, and spew talking points that have been spoon fed to us by special interest groups and a 1.5 million dollar a day misinformation campaign. Only then will there be true equality in America.

It is perversely amusing to note that the real kool-aid drinkers here - those who accept the contradictions offered us without question or apparent unease - are the first to accuse others of their own very prominent faults.

Debra Law wrote:

okie wrote:

It is up to you and people like you to continue to think for yourself.

No. We are absolutely against thinking for ourselves. We want to be exactly like mindless rightwing radicals, i.e., okie, and spew talking points that have been spoon fed to us by special interest groups and a 1.5 million dollar a day misinformation campaign. Only then will there be true equality in America.

It is perversely amusing to note that the real kool-aid drinkers here - those who accept the contradictions offered us without question or apparent unease - are the first to accuse others of their own very prominent faults.

"Which brings up a question again, I think I asked you once, I don't think you answered, do you believe in Marxism, Debra? "

Honesty is not one of the hallmarks of leftists, so I don't expect her to answer, or if she does, it will not be a straight answer.

Contact: Mary Mahon
[email protected]
212-606-3853
Commonwealth Fund
Employer-sponsored health insurance premiums projected to double by 2020. Health system reforms could save more than $3,700 per family policy by 2020; state-by-state analysis finds sharp premium increases since 2003 in all states

August 20, 2009, New York, NY" Nationally, family premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance increased 119 percent between 1999 and 2008, and could increase another 94 percent to an average $23,842 per family by 2020 if cost growth continues on its current course, according to a new Commonwealth Fund report.

I am a former Marine that was damaged in Nam ..and have been on "state run " health care for a long while..I believe that gives me the unique vantage point of knowing what I am talking about..

If you think we are owed this from a Federal Government so broke it rarely pays attention..than you friend are a loon...

If you think State run health care is the answer than you are not even close to where reality lives..

The Vets Admin is a classic example of how terrible the nabobs at the Federal level are in running anything..

It will be the gravest mistake of your lives to get this passed..

But what do I know..40 years of it is hardly enough ..right liberals?

According to the report's state-by-state analysis, the five-year increase (2003 to 2008) in employer-based premiums for family coverage averaged 33 percent, ranging from a high of 45 percent in Indiana and North Carolina to an average low of 25 percent in Michigan, Texas, and Ohio. Most states saw increases of 30 percent to 40 percent. By 2008, average family premium costs were highest in Indiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, and New Hampshire"topping out at more than $13,500. Idaho, Iowa, and Hawaii had the lowest average family premiums, around $11,000.

"These rapid premium increases aren't sustainable for families or employers," said Commonwealth Fund President Karen Davis. "If we craft patient-centered reform that focuses on improving quality and efficiency and bending the cost curve, the insured in every state stand to benefit. We could assure coverage and, over time, make more money available for wages, retirement, and other family needs." As a result, by 2008 total premiums" including employee and employer shares " equaled or exceeded 18 percent of the average household income for the

The report found that insurance premiums have been rising much faster than income across states.working age population in 18 states, compared to just three states in 2003. In three states"Mississippi, Tennessee and West Virginia"family premiums averaged 20 percent or more of middle household incomes for the state's under-65 population. The stress on businesses and families is particularly acute in Southern and South-central states, where premiums are often high, yet incomes are lower than national averages. In addition, employees are often paying more for less, because as costs rise employers have increased patient cost-sharing while limiting benefits.

okie wrote:

"Which brings up a question again, I think I asked you once, I don't think you answered, do you believe in Marxism, Debra? "

Honesty is not one of the hallmarks of leftists, so I don't expect her to answer, or if she does, it will not be a straight answer.

I think it's a safe bet that she doesn't believe in Marxism. The universe of non Marxists is large enough to encompass lots of disagreement. Do you equate "leftists" with "Marxists" ? Perhaps you could illuminate us with your definitions of those terms.

I agree that Debra has not (to my knowledge) addressed the many contradictions and the even greater number of unanswered questions concerning the president's health care plans and the draft bills circulating in the Congress. Instead she has merely cited the plight of the uninsured and criticized the critics of the program. Not very illuminating, but not enough to accuse her as you do.

When we have politicians that are not open and honest, then theories are all we have left, and we have to judge on action instead of words.

THE TRUTH: MANY REPUBLICANS HAVE CONTINUALLY MADE FALSE CLAIMS IN THEIR ATTACKS ON HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM.

Republicans have often used misleading facts and blatantly untrue talking points when discussing health insurance reform, often citing studies by groups that are wholly owned by the insurance industry. [1]

Republicans claim that health insurance reform would explode the deficit, when in fact the President has repeatedly said that reform must be deficit-neutral. [2] They have also warned that reform will lead to rationing, a claim that “fall[s] apart on close scrutiny.” [4]

Numerous Republicans, including Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana, have falsely described the Democratic plan for health insurance reform as “a government-controlled health care plan” that will deprive over 120 million Americans of their current health care coverage " a claim that independent fact-check organization PolitiFact rated “False.” [4]

These claims, which have been echoed by Republicans across the country, are wholly untrue and have been repeatedly debunked by numerous independent sources. [5]



SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT:

[1] “Generally left unsaid amid all the citations is that the Lewin Group is wholly owned by UnitedHealth Group, one of the nation's largest insurers. More specifically, the Lewin Group is part of Ingenix, a UnitedHealth subsidiary that was accused by the New York attorney general and the American Medical Association, a physician's group, of helping insurers shift medical expenses to consumers by distributing skewed data.” [Washington Post, 7/22/09]

[2] Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, in testimony prepared for delivery to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, said, “The president is open to good ideas about how we finance health reform. But we are not open to deficit spending. Health reform will be paid for and it will be deficit neutral over ten years.” [Politico, 6/24/09]

[3] “[Republican] arguments fall apart on close scrutiny. The government isn’t mandating that doctors adopt the results of CER [comparative effectiveness research] and it is not rationing care. Each patient has his or her unique needs and the ultimate decision for how to proceed should be left to the doctor and the patient. Currently, approximately one-third of all treatments have never been proven to produce better outcomes; CER would provide doctors with unbiased information about the most effective treatments, help doctors and patients make better informed decisions, and improve the quality of care. Moreover, far from establishing one-size-fits all medicine or dictating treatments, properly conducted CER will actually promote faster adoption of personalized care.” [ThinkProgress.org, 6/19/09]

[4] “120 million ‘deprived’ of health care is not correct. Pence appears to be picking the worst number he can choose. And he doesn't mention the fact that under the scenario laid out by the Lewin Group, people would still have health care coverage and their premiums reduced by 30 to 40 percent. He says the government would ‘deprive’ people of health insurance, when actually the scenario is that they would choose a different option...Finally, we have to include a caveat about the Lewin Group. The group says it operates with editorial independence, but it is a subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group, which also offers private health insurance. Given all this background and explanation, we rated Pence's statement that the government would ‘deprive’ 120 million people of their ‘current health care coverage’ False.” [PolitiFact, 5/19/09]

[5] “Republicans in Washington seem to be shifting into overdrive to keep a health system overhaul from passing Congress before the August recess. Yesterday, July 22, brought two more deceptive assaults (that we know of) on the pending bills, one from Minority Whip Eric Cantor and the other from the top GOP member of the House Immigration Subcommittee, Steve King of Iowa.” [FactCheck.org, 7/23/09]

One of Obama's web sites on health care.

First of all, the two countries and public moods are totally different than each other, they are distinct situations that do not apply to each other very well.

Obamacare Version 1.0 is dead. The 1,000-page monstrosity that emerged in various editions from Congress was done in by widespread national revulsion not just at its expense and intrusiveness but at the mendacity with which it is being sold. You don’t need a Ph.D. to see that the promise to expand coverage and reduce costs is a crude deception, or that cutting $500 billion from Medicare without affecting care is a fiction.