IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

...during this very serious financial crisis, it's necessary to spend money "we don't have in our pockets" to save our economy.

Will you please stop saying this like it's a proven fact or something, and that there were NO other alternatives?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

It is a proven fact: No economy can survive without a banking system.

Show me any developed economy that doesn't have a banking system.

Have you ever studied economics? The foundation of economics is supply and demand. Without the tools (money and credit) to make it work, no economic transaction can take place. That's Economics 101.

How many cows or ears of corn do you bring to the car dealer to buy a car?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

That's true; that's the reason why I do not agree with ALL of Obama's spending. Having said that, during this very serious financial crisis, it's necessary to spend money "we don't have in our pockets" to save our economy.

So if I am going broke, the only way to fix it is to spend more money?

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@okie,

okie, You never understand economics on a macro level, so quit trying to ask stupid questions.

Our government spent more than revenue and GDP during WWII, and we won!~ And eventually became the richest country in the world.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

That's true; that's the reason why I do not agree with ALL of Obama's spending. Having said that, during this very serious financial crisis, it's necessary to spend money "we don't have in our pockets" to save our economy.

So if I am going broke, the only way to fix it is to spend more money?

You have to spend money to make money. You can't sell goods from an empty cart.

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@Debra Law,

okie fails to understand that if our banks do not have the ability to transact business because they have no cash, all economic activity will cease. To save our economy, our government had no choice but to pump money into bankrupt banks and finance companies so that our economy can continue to have activity. Simple concepts like these escapes the ability of okie to comprehend.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Slight problem, the government does not provide much goods. They only consume them. It is us that drives the economy, not the government. Perhaps you don't know that?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

okie fails to understand that if our banks do not have the ability to transact business because they have no cash, all economic activity will cease. To save our economy, our government had no choice but to pump money into bankrupt banks and finance companies so that our economy can continue to have activity. Simple concepts like these escapes the ability of okie to comprehend.

And still no full accounting as to where the money went?

1 Reply

@okie,

You don't even understand with all the media coverage on TARP money, that they were loans.

From USA Today:

Quote:

By Pallavi Gogoi, USA TODAY
NEW YORK " Several large banks, including JPMorgan Chase (JPM), Goldman Sachs (GS) and American Express (AXP), hope they're about to get clearance to begin returning $65 billion of taxpayers' money.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

There's a young woman on msnbc (now) who doesn't want universal health care, but she won't answer the question whether our country should do away with Medicare and social security which are totally socialist programs. She was asked if her parents were on Medicare, and she responded that they still don't qualify, but when asked if they should be denied Medicare, she couldn't answer. She mangled her response and could only say "don't put words in my mouth" without answering the question.

Typical conservative meme without understanding what they are saying, because they just repeat what they hear without analyzing what they are saying or how it can affect their own parents.

I watched that too. She showed up at a town hall meeting conducted by Sen. Specter to claim she was 35 years old, had never been involved in politics, but this healthcare reform business woke a "sleeping giant." She didn't want socialism or socialized medicine and demanded that Sen. Specter tell her what he was going to do to get this country in line with the Constitution that our founders wrote.

She appeared on Hardball and the guest commentator essentially asked her if she was sleeping on 9-11 and the days/months/years thereafter when we went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. She basically said she wasn't paying attention because she was getting married, etc., and going to war and/or being at war was common--something that we're just used to. The commentator pointed out that she voiced her opposition to socialism, and pointed out that both medicare (single-payor) and social security were socialism programs. Because of her stated opposition to socialism, the commentator asked her if it would be accurate to state she was against medicare. She said she didn't want words put in her mouth. She couldn't answer his question. The commentator asked, because she is against single payor programs, had she talked to her parents and asked them not to enroll in the medicare program when they became eligible. Again, she didn't want to respond merely claiming she didn't discuss politics with them. (However, she claimed to discuss politics a million times with her liberal friends.) All she had to offer, although she acknowledged that it was unrealistic, is that perhaps those who need medical care [with the obvious exception of her parents who will soon be eligible for medicare] could possibly rely on whatever charity that private citizens might offer.

It's a very eye-opening segment that demonstrates how those who are opposed to healthcare reform don't even know what they're protesting against.

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The Hardball segment is available here"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/

Quote:

Katy Abrams, a questioner who voiced strong concerns about America's future at Sen. Arlen Specter's Tuesday town hall meeting, discusses her bold questions with Hardball guest host Lawerence O'Donnell.

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@Debra Law,

Don't you find this at all similar to those who were protesting against the occupation in Iraq back in 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, and when asked what they thought we should do about the violence that would happen when we left; they really didn't have a clue? They were asked if they thought it was ok that we leave Iraq without a functioning police force or military, and that the thugs that are over there would basically take power and murder/maim/terrorize the otherwise innocent citizens of Iraq.

They didn't think about any of those things, they simply thought about American's leaving Iraq.

There is ignorance on both sides of every argument; if you guys want to parade the least informed among us out as proof that the other side is made up of a bunch of morons; so be it. But to those of us who try to look at both sides of an issue, you're the one's who come off looking bad.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Don't you find this at all similar to those who were protesting against the occupation in Iraq back in 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, and when asked what they thought we should do about the violence that would happen when we left; they really didn't have a clue? They were asked if they thought it was ok that we leave Iraq without a functioning police force or military, and that the thugs that are over there would basically take power and murder/maim/terrorize the otherwise innocent citizens of Iraq.

They didn't think about any of those things, they simply thought about American's leaving Iraq.

There is ignorance on both sides of every argument; if you guys want to parade the least informed among us out as proof that the other side is made up of a bunch of morons; so be it. But to those of us who try to look at both sides of an issue, you're the one's who come off looking bad.

Let's stay in Iraq and Afghanistan FOREVER! Let's continue to spend 10 billion dollars every month so we can continue to wage war and be the unwanted policemen of the middle east. After all, according to Katy Abrams, we're used to war -- no big deal.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

I don't want to stay there (and there is ample evidence of me saying so on this board, dating back to late 2003); but to not understand or plan for the consequences of leaving is the epitome of stupid.

Of course Debra, here you are trying to change topics and ignoring the meat of my post.

If you (and CI) choose to argue, ridicule, and rebut the most ignorant of the other side, it says much more about you than it does about the other side.

2 Replies

@maporsche,

What ci and Debra do not understand, and I think what Obama does not understand, is that Americans are not as dumb as they think we are. There are thousands of people, perhaps tens of thousands or more, people, that do read the bills when they become available. This is more than Obama has done, apparently, and it shows when he makes misleading statements or lies, perhaps purposely, about the legislation. The more they call us Un-American, or racist, or uninformed, or whatever, the more angry we become. Maybe that is what Obama wants, I do wonder? I listen to talk shows, and there are doctors calling in, that have read parts of the proposed legislation, and they probably know more about it than Pelosi, Reid, and Obama combined.

My attitude about Obama is hardening, I have no use for the demagogue, yes demagogue, he is not an expert on anything, let alone health care. My answer to his sermons to us is "Get Lost." Our only hope is to stop this guy at every turn, and sweep the Democrats out of office in 2010 before they totally bankrupt the country.

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Is Katy Abrams the most ignorant example of a GOP "conservative" healthcare opponent or a typical example? She doesn't do so well without her talking points, does she?

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@Debra Law,

I don't care if the typical opponent is ignorant; there ARE arguments to be made against Obama and Congress' plan for healthcare. And there are people who are not ignorant, making those arguments.

If you choose to take this easy, and extremely boring route then so be it. You're only doing yourself a disservice.

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@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

Is Katy Abrams the most ignorant example of a GOP "conservative" healthcare opponent or a typical example? She doesn't do so well without her talking points, does she?

Neither does Obama. He is an absolute flop. And has he even read his own legislation that he is pushing? He regularly misrepesents it, or lies about it. Picking out Katy Abrams and trying to scapegoat her is not going to work.

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Healthcare Reform will kill the GOP.. And they know it!

Quote:

The Republican Party is not against health care reform. Rather, they are scared shitless. What is going to happen when reform comes and everyone has good health care, we all have access to the doctors we want, there is no rationing, our grandmas are all alive with their tubes and wires still plugged in, and the country/world has not ended in a mushroom cloud of financial disaster? I'll tell you what is going to happen....a corner stone of republican bull **** will be flushed down the proverbial toilet. This is not Obama's Waterloo my friends, this is the Republican Party's Waterloo. If people find out they have been lied to, and they were denied good affordable health care just to keep the GOP relevant, these Tea Baggers are going to look like a knitting group compared to the rioting duped GOP faithfuls.

Almost like the guy who gets us all to believe the world is ending on Friday. When Monday rolls around, and we had the weekend to think about his bullshit, Mr End of The World goes from relevant to invisible.

GOP, Rush, Palin, Steele, etc. are fighting for their lives, not about health care. This is why they have doubled down with crazy goofy stuff. The sooner we realize it the sooner we will disengage in this dumb ass notion of "bipartisanship" and deliver a true health care reform bill. Otherwise we are fighting, and losing, about issues which were never really the "true issues." This is why we are now spinning in circles around Death Panels, Illegals Getting Health Care, Grandma Getting Killed, Nazis, etc. - all arguments which can never be won. They are mindless distractions designed to defeat us. The GOP doesn't want to really talk about health care, they want to stay alive by simply keeping their best bogey man.

2 Replies

@Debra Law,

I hope so too, Debra. I hope so too.

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IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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