IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

...refused coverage in their plans for pre-existing conditions too.

If they can't afford their premiums then they don't get coverage either.

Quote:

...refused coverage in their plans for pre-existing conditions too.

If they can't afford their premiums then they don't get coverage either.

pretty clear to me - can even read it without glasses .
hbg

I've mentioned this before, but the pro-universal-health people dismiss it... So here is a little article that, while on a different subject, enforces my earlier comments. Take not of the 4th paragraph.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-06-16-ERwaits_N.htm

USAFHokie80 wrote:

I've mentioned this before, but the pro-universal-health people dismiss it... So here is a little article that, while on a different subject, enforces my earlier comments. Take not of the 4th paragraph.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-06-16-ERwaits_N.htm

And you think the current system is getting the job done?

When there are such stark failures in the ability to serve the populace in question, it's a sign that things need to change - not an endorsement of the status quo.

Cycloptichorn

Only half of the hospitals surveyed had psychiatric units. The rest transferred patients, sometimes far from homes and families. Hospitals are closing their units because of inadequate payments from government and insurers, unpaid costs for the uninsured and too few psychiatrists willing to work in hospitals, says James Bentley of the American Hospital Association.

USAFHokie80 wrote:

I've mentioned this before, but the pro-universal-health people dismiss it... So here is a little article that, while on a different subject, enforces my earlier comments. Take not of the 4th paragraph.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-06-16-ERwaits_N.htm

And you think the current system is getting the job done?

When there are such stark failures in the ability to serve the populace in question, it's a sign that things need to change - not an endorsement of the status quo.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

USAFHokie80 wrote:

I've mentioned this before, but the pro-universal-health people dismiss it... So here is a little article that, while on a different subject, enforces my earlier comments. Take not of the 4th paragraph.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-06-16-ERwaits_N.htm

And you think the current system is getting the job done?

When there are such stark failures in the ability to serve the populace in question, it's a sign that things need to change - not an endorsement of the status quo.

Cycloptichorn

No, I think the current system needs an overhaul. However, universal healthcare will do more damage than good. What's the point in having coverage if the people can't find a physician to care for them ? There is already a shortage of Primary Care Physicians. Medicare/Medicaid is about to drop reimbursements another 10% in two weeks... That, coupled with the millions of non-payers that hospitals treat is costing many hospital systems a lot of money. If we essential extend medicaid/medicare to the entire population we'll force many hospitals into the private sector completely where they don't have to take it. Although it's happening already, you'll see many more hospitals shedding their EDs so they aren't forced to care for people on this program.

I find it amuzing I get called myopic when you guys talk all this mess about what you want and what you think it should be... but then have NO realistic idea of how to pay for it or the conseqences it will bring. And that's probably not all your fault. I suppose it's really hard to understand a lot of the healthcare system unless you're actually involved in it.

USAFHokie80 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

USAFHokie80 wrote:

I've mentioned this before, but the pro-universal-health people dismiss it... So here is a little article that, while on a different subject, enforces my earlier comments. Take not of the 4th paragraph.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-06-16-ERwaits_N.htm

And you think the current system is getting the job done?

When there are such stark failures in the ability to serve the populace in question, it's a sign that things need to change - not an endorsement of the status quo.

Cycloptichorn

No, I think the current system needs an overhaul. However, universal healthcare will do more damage than good. What's the point in having coverage if the people can't find a physician to care for them ? There is already a shortage of Primary Care Physicians. Medicare/Medicaid is about to drop reimbursements another 10% in two weeks... That, coupled with the millions of non-payers that hospitals treat is costing many hospital systems a lot of money. If we essential extend medicaid/medicare to the entire population we'll force many hospitals into the private sector completely where they don't have to take it. Although it's happening already, you'll see many more hospitals shedding their EDs so they aren't forced to care for people on this program.

I find it amuzing I get called myopic when you guys talk all this mess about what you want and what you think it should be... but then have NO realistic idea of how to pay for it or the conseqences it will bring. And that's probably not all your fault. I suppose it's really hard to understand a lot of the healthcare system unless you're actually involved in it.

I'm almost positive that two things would happen -

First, an expansion of any sort of medicaid-ish system will also bring with it new money. Will that money be enough to cover costs? Probably not, but it would help some.

Second, I'm quite sure that the Hospitals can be prevented from excluding those who are medicaid-ish programs - if we want to do so, we certainly have the power to do so.

We may be seeing a situation in which the profit margin on health care is declining. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Cycloptichorn

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

I disagree with your assertions that doctors will not be able to make money. I don't find them to be based upon facts, but upon your projections of the future, which rely upon this proposition: Medicare will not pay it's bills, so it is disastrous to do business with them.

It isn't a given that Medicare won't pay it's bills, however, especially if more money were put into the program; something that Obama's plan would have happen.

We have the perfect right to tell doctors they cannot refuse business based upon method of payment; it is a form of discrimination.

I believe that physicians are interested in helping people, and not just making money. The idea that America will lose all it's doctors due to a reduction in the money they make is not one which is supported by facts.

And, since all the other western countries have a similar system, where are they going to go? Somewhere else with Universal Health Care? What's the advantage of them to do so?

Too many logical holes in your projections to take them seriously.

Cycloptichorn

i don't know what it is like stateside , but in canada students are SCRAMBLING to get into medical school !
for every place in the medical faculties of our universities there are several qualified applicants .
some students attend medical schools in ireland and other countries to be able to practice medicine in canada .

we know quite a number of physicians - some are our neighbours - and while most of them don't live in million dollar mansions , they seem to live quite well .

if one wants to become a millionaire quickly , there are certainly other professions that make that possible . the physicians we know seem to want to be physicians first , rather than millionaires - which doesn't mean that we don't have any well-to-do physicians .
hbg