65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 09:49 am
Indeed - but those private assurances became quite popular a couple of years ago ... because they were cheaper for the younger members.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 10:29 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Walter,

Why would any of the providers or consumers in the German health care system - which you have repeatedly assured us was a model of long-standing perfection that enjoyed widespread public support and was served by happy, financially healthy insurance companies, contented doctors and specialists - want to change any aspect of this system??


georgeob, I doubt very much that Walter claimed their universal health care to be "a model of long-standing perfection."
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 10:54 am
george questioned :

Quote:
Walter,

Why would any of the providers or consumers in the German health care system - which you have repeatedly assured us was a model of long-standing perfection that enjoyed widespread public support and was served by happy, financially healthy insurance companies, contented doctors and specialists - want to change any aspect of this system??


you may have noticed that the CONSUMERS were NOT being asked what their preference is .

instead , it is the large insurance companies with a lot of older - less profitable - patients that want to make a better profit and therefore are asking for the change - surprising , isn't it ? Shocked Laughing
hbg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 10:59 am
What hamburger said. (And exactly that was noted since years by some others as well.)
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 12:48 pm
Another point I don't understand is why georgeob1 keeps bashing this strawman of perfection. Neither Walter, nor I, nor anybody else has ever claimed the German system is perfect -- or that there even is such a thing as a perfect health care system. Why not drop the silly insinuation that we do?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 12:52 pm
exagerration for effect I believe. Some have used the German example as an exhibit to follow, almost to the point of making it "perfect".
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 01:08 pm
McGentrix wrote:
exagerration for effect I believe. Some have used the German example as an exhibit to follow

I know. I'm one of them.

McGentrix wrote:
almost to the point of making it "perfect".

As a guest in America, I don't want to be rude. But on some issues, there's a lot of room between saying "it works better than in America" and saying "it works almost perfectly." Healthcare is one such example. And all Walter and I are claiming is that overall, the German healthcare system works better than the American healthcare system.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 01:11 pm
I guess it comes down to whom you ask. I know I have never had a problem with the American heathcare system, but then again I have health insurance.

So, perhaps you mean to say that the German system is a better example for those without insurance? Because I fail to see how it works "better". It works differently.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 01:15 pm
McGentrix wrote:
So, perhaps you mean to say that the German system is a better example for those without insurance? Because I fail to see how it works "better". It works differently.

I mean to say is that the German system works better for the average patient, insured or not, as measured in units of benefit (longer, healthier lives) per units of cost (mostly money).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 01:43 pm
I agree with Thomas. And 'yes', I can imagine better systems (the Swiss seems to be more more effective than the German).

Thomas, however, has the big advantage to know more about the US system than I do.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 01:50 pm
Yes, Walter, we in the US are making great progress in health care; the uninsured continues to increase every year. It's probably around 47 million Americans, and with the loss of jobs, that'll continue its upward spiral. Great progress.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 04:33 pm
i understand that U.S. senators and members of congress have an outstanding health insurance plan .
i find it interesting that the american public sees no proplem with that but some seem to feel that they need to deny the same healthcare to their needy neighbour - puzzling !
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 04:37 pm
hamburger wrote:
i understand that U.S. senators and members of congress have an outstanding health insurance plan .
i find it interesting that the american public sees no proplem with that but some seem to feel that they need to deny the same healthcare to their needy neighbour - puzzling !


Don't believe all the BS you hear. The members of the U.S. Congress chose their health care insurance from the exact same list of policies as every other Federal Employee. Those plans aren't much different from the Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Aetna, etc... plans avalaible to anyone else.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 04:39 pm
fishin wrote:
hamburger wrote:
i understand that U.S. senators and members of congress have an outstanding health insurance plan .
i find it interesting that the american public sees no proplem with that but some seem to feel that they need to deny the same healthcare to their needy neighbour - puzzling !


Don't believe all the BS you hear. The members of the U.S. Congress chose their health care insurance from the exact same list of policies as every other Federal Employee. Those plans aren't much different from the Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Aetna, etc... plans avalaible to anyone else.


The only difference being that congress gets "free" health insurance, and John Q Public has to pay some hefty monthly premium for the "same" coverage if he's not covered by his employer.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 04:40 pm
There's a very good reason why 47 million Americans don't have health insurance: cost.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 04:43 pm
fishin wrote :

Quote:
Don't believe all the BS you hear. The members of the U.S. Congress chose their health care insurance from the exact same list of policies as every other Federal Employee. Those plans aren't much different from the Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Aetna, etc... plans avalaible to anyone else.


can i assume that all uninsured americans would be accepted by those insurance plans at a cost they are able to afford ?
some have posted that they cannot obtain any insurance - some because of pre-existing conditions , i recall .
i assume you have read those posts ?
did these posters not tell the truth ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 04:50 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
fishin wrote:
hamburger wrote:
i understand that U.S. senators and members of congress have an outstanding health insurance plan .
i find it interesting that the american public sees no proplem with that but some seem to feel that they need to deny the same healthcare to their needy neighbour - puzzling !


Don't believe all the BS you hear. The members of the U.S. Congress chose their health care insurance from the exact same list of policies as every other Federal Employee. Those plans aren't much different from the Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Aetna, etc... plans avalaible to anyone else.


The only difference being that congress gets "free" health insurance, and John Q Public has to pay some hefty monthly premium for the "same" coverage if he's not covered by his employer.


No, it isn't "free". They pay 25% of the cost just like every other Federal Employee does.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 04:56 pm
hamburger wrote:
fishin wrote :

Quote:
Don't believe all the BS you hear. The members of the U.S. Congress chose their health care insurance from the exact same list of policies as every other Federal Employee. Those plans aren't much different from the Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Aetna, etc... plans avalaible to anyone else.


can i assume that all uninsured americans would be accepted by those insurance plans at a cost they are able to afford ?
some have posted that they cannot obtain any insurance - some because of pre-existing conditions , i recall .
i assume you have read those posts ?
did these posters not tell the truth ?
hbg


What does whether or not those posters told the truth have to do with whether or not the member's of Congress have some "special" healthcare plan? Members of Congress can be refused coverage in their plans for pre-existing conditions too. If they can't afford their premiums then they don't get coverage either.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 05:05 pm
fishin wrote :

Quote:
What does whether or not those posters told the truth have to do with whether or not the member's of Congress have some "special" healthcare plan? Members of Congress can be refused coverage in their plans for pre-existing conditions too. If they can't afford their premiums then they don't get coverage either.


now i understand .
those that either might get sick because of a pre-exxisting condition or are too poor to afford insurance , should look after themselves .
i get it .
hbg
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2008 05:09 pm
hamburger wrote:
fishin wrote :

Quote:
What does whether or not those posters told the truth have to do with whether or not the member's of Congress have some "special" healthcare plan? Members of Congress can be refused coverage in their plans for pre-existing conditions too. If they can't afford their premiums then they don't get coverage either.


now i understand .
those that either might get sick because of a pre-exxisting condition or are too poor to afford insurance , should look after themselves .
i get it .
hbg


If that's what you've managed to read into my statements then you should make use of your Canadian health coverage and seek help from a qualified mental health professional. You seem to be "seeing things" that aren't there.
0 Replies
 
 

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