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Gun Control

 
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 08:13 am
Wilso wrote:
You was with soldiers who wanted the right to carry guns? Doi doi doi. What a huge friggin surprise. Now there's a balanced cross section of the Australian community. Glad to see your research has been so thorough.


The are likely some of the most balanced. They have travelled off the island, they have experienced other cultures, they have been trained in the proper use of weapons as well as other difficult technologies. Going to liberal universities and smoking dope does not make for balanced thinking.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 08:52 am
These people that say gun owners are paranoid because they think their 2nd amendment rights are in jeopardy, that the gov't will take their guns haven't listened to Chuckie Schumer, he is absolutely after all private gun ownership, watch him when the dems take over, he will introduce, or re-introduce a bill or bills to do exactly that.
0 Replies
 
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 09:43 am
I don't think comparing the gun deaths in US to some other countries is really much of a comparison. I'm going to take a guess that Austrailia doesn't have ghettos like we do in Los Angelos and other major ciites...how many shootings take place in these places? There's a decent number in Boston every year, and Boston's "hoods" aren't as crazy as other parts of the country. Gotta love gang violence.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 02:55 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Going to liberal universities and smoking dope does not make for balanced thinking.


Yet another balanced assessment from a conservative. You either agree with them, or you spend your time smoking dope at university. Rolling Eyes You may believe that the presence of weapons doesn't cause the US to have a higher homicide rate than Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain, France, Germany and Japan combined. But you're obviously just chanting the mantra in order to convince yourself. Either that or the US has got 50 times the rate of homicidal maniacs. Maybe there's something in your water that does it?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 03:17 pm
Oooh, I have to make a hard choice now....do I keep my firearms & protect myself in the event of....or do i wait for the cops for who knows how long....hmmmm, hard choice....but, I'll keep my gun, thanks.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 03:24 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Oooh, I have to make a hard choice now....do I keep my firearms & protect myself in the event of....or do i wait for the cops for who knows how long....hmmmm, hard choice....but, I'll keep my gun, thanks.

As well you should, one never knows when some brown-skinned mexican might steal a cucumber from your garden.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 03:55 pm
dyslexia wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Oooh, I have to make a hard choice now....do I keep my firearms & protect myself in the event of....or do i wait for the cops for who knows how long....hmmmm, hard choice....but, I'll keep my gun, thanks.

As well you should, one never knows when some brown-skinned mexican might steal a cucumber from your garden.


Maybe shooting a few children would make her feel better. She's got the right wing's normal lack of respect for human life.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 04:21 pm
Wilso wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Oooh, I have to make a hard choice now....do I keep my firearms & protect myself in the event of....or do i wait for the cops for who knows how long....hmmmm, hard choice....but, I'll keep my gun, thanks.

As well you should, one never knows when some brown-skinned mexican might steal a cucumber from your garden.


Maybe shooting a few children would make her feel better. She's got the right wing's normal lack of respect for human life.

Respect human life? I should worry about the protection of others but not my own? That is pure nuts.
BTW-A kid with a gun pointed at me (yes, there are kids as young as 9 killing) I'd try not to kill them but the first law of life takes over, even for PCers like you.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:02 pm
At this point, it's worth pointing back to the statistics. 11.3 deaths per hundred thousand in the USA vs 0.27 deaths per hundred thousand in AUS.

Regardless of your "right" to carry guns, you are paying a high price.

IF it was proven that gun control drastically reduced homicide, suicide and accidental death rates...would you support it?

Timberlandko, I saw a few chapters of "The Joy of Guns" in your posts but I'm not sure I saw anything to justify the price you pay for keeping them (namely 11.3).
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:03 pm
Maybe keeping the gun out of the hands of a nine-year-old in the first place might be a more sensible option Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:06 pm
Eorl wrote:
At this point, it's worth pointing back to the statistics. 11.3 deaths per hundred thousand in the USA vs 0.27 deaths per hundred thousand in AUS.

Regardless of your "right" to carry guns, you are paying a high price.

IF it was proven that gun control drastically reduced homicide, suicide and accidental death rates...would you support it?

Timberlandko, I saw a few chapters of "The Joy of Guns" in your posts but I'm not sure I saw anything to justify the price you pay for keeping them (namely 11.3).

Have all your criminals turned in their guns? If so, that's great. We have 300,000.000 LEGAL citizens in this country. If one believes that all the criminals (both legal citizens & illegal aliens) are going to turn over their guns never to own another one, then i have to wonder what la-la land you're living in.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:07 pm
Wilso wrote:
Maybe keeping the gun out of the hands of a nine-year-old in the first place might be a more sensible option Rolling Eyes

Try telling that to the criminal parents. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:12 pm
It is kind of interesting, the difference in general opinion between people in the USA vs AUS. Guns in every household seems very normal to you folk ('specially Texans), whereas to most of us...it's unimaginably bleak.

We have a very conservative Prime Minister who backs Mr Bush at almost every turn, but on guns...there is strong dissagreement.

From Wiki:
Quote:
The Howard Government strongly favours gun control and under their influence, legislation has steadily become more restrictive. Despite his strong support for the USA on many other issues, Australian Prime Minister John Howard frequently refers to the USA to explain his opposition to legal, civilian firearms ownership and use in Australia. He has often said in interviews and prepared speeches that he does not want Australia to go "down the American path". In one interview on Sydney radio station 2GB he said "we will find any means we can to further restrict them because I hate guns... ordinary citizens should not have weapons. We do not want the American disease imported into Australia". In a television interview shortly before the tenth anniversary of the Port Arthur massacre, he reaffirmed his stance: "I did not want Australia to go down the American path. There are some things about America I admire and there are some things I don't. And one of the things I don't admire about America is their... slavish love of guns. They're evil".
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:13 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Eorl wrote:
At this point, it's worth pointing back to the statistics. 11.3 deaths per hundred thousand in the USA vs 0.27 deaths per hundred thousand in AUS.

Regardless of your "right" to carry guns, you are paying a high price.

IF it was proven that gun control drastically reduced homicide, suicide and accidental death rates...would you support it?

Timberlandko, I saw a few chapters of "The Joy of Guns" in your posts but I'm not sure I saw anything to justify the price you pay for keeping them (namely 11.3).

Have all your criminals turned in their guns? If so, that's great. We have 300,000.000 LEGAL citizens in this country. If one believes that all the criminals (both legal citizens & illegal aliens) are going to turn over their guns never to own another one, then i have to wonder what la-la land you're living in.

eorl-Could you please answer this.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:16 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Eorl wrote:
At this point, it's worth pointing back to the statistics. 11.3 deaths per hundred thousand in the USA vs 0.27 deaths per hundred thousand in AUS.

Regardless of your "right" to carry guns, you are paying a high price.

IF it was proven that gun control drastically reduced homicide, suicide and accidental death rates...would you support it?

Timberlandko, I saw a few chapters of "The Joy of Guns" in your posts but I'm not sure I saw anything to justify the price you pay for keeping them (namely 11.3).

Have all your criminals turned in their guns? If so, that's great. We have 300,000.000 LEGAL citizens in this country. If one believes that all the criminals (both legal citizens & illegal aliens) are going to turn over their guns never to own another one, then i have to wonder what la-la land you're living in.


You should come visit. Very Happy

That argument is the most common one against gun control...that good citizens will hand in the guns, but criminals won't. But look at the stats. The reason is...road rage here leads to people being punched rather than shot in the face, and our six year olds cut off fingers with carelessly discarded knives instead of shooting themselves with guns.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:26 pm
Eorl wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Eorl wrote:
At this point, it's worth pointing back to the statistics. 11.3 deaths per hundred thousand in the USA vs 0.27 deaths per hundred thousand in AUS.

Regardless of your "right" to carry guns, you are paying a high price.

IF it was proven that gun control drastically reduced homicide, suicide and accidental death rates...would you support it?

Timberlandko, I saw a few chapters of "The Joy of Guns" in your posts but I'm not sure I saw anything to justify the price you pay for keeping them (namely 11.3).

Have all your criminals turned in their guns? If so, that's great. We have 300,000.000 LEGAL citizens in this country. If one believes that all the criminals (both legal citizens & illegal aliens) are going to turn over their guns never to own another one, then i have to wonder what la-la land you're living in.


You should come visit. Very Happy

That argument is the most common one against gun control...that good citizens will hand in the guns, but criminals won't. But look at the stats. The reason is...road rage here leads to people being punched rather than shot in the face, and our six year olds cut off fingers with carelessly discarded knives instead of shooting themselves with guns.

I have visited, years ago wonderful country.
It's more than an argument, it's true. Criminals won't turn over their guns, so there we are, naked. In San ANtonio, gun crimes have gone down since we got the right to carry because now the criminal doesn't know what he might be facing. As for the road rage, on I-35 a guy killed another motorist with his bow & arrow because the dead one (now) gave the killer the one finger salute. A woman in Houston drowned her 5 kids in the bathtub. So, you think getting rid of guns will stop the murders?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 05:32 pm
Not stop, but definately reduce.

Also from Wiki:

Quote:
David Hemenway's recent book, Private Guns, Public Health,[18] makes the argument in favor of gun control and he provides evidence for the more guns, more gun violence and suicide hypothesis. Rather than compare America to countries with radically different cultures and historical experiences, he focuses on Canada, New Zealand and Australia and concludes that the case for gun control is a strong one based on the relationship he finds between lower crime rates and gun control.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 06:01 pm
Eorl wrote:
Not stop, but definately reduce.

Also from Wiki:

Quote:
David Hemenway's recent book, Private Guns, Public Health,[18] makes the argument in favor of gun control and he provides evidence for the more guns, more gun violence and suicide hypothesis. Rather than compare America to countries with radically different cultures and historical experiences, he focuses on Canada, New Zealand and Australia and concludes that the case for gun control is a strong one based on the relationship he finds between lower crime rates and gun control.

CCWs have proven to be effective & does not inffringe upon my rights
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 06:13 pm
There are four basic reasons for the second ammendment in the United States.

Every one of the founding fathers is on record to the effect that private ownership of firearms, the 2'nd ammendment, is there as a final bulwark against the possibility of government going out of control. That is the most major reason for it.

At the time of the revolution and for years afterwards, there were private armies, private ownership of cannons and warships. . . The term "letters of marque, and reprisal" which you read in the constitution indicates the notion of the government issuing a sort of a hunting license to the owner of a private warship to take English or other foreign national ships on the high seas, i.e. to either capture or sink them. The idea of you or me owning a Vepr or FAL rifle with a 30-round magazine is not likely to have bothered any of those people.

The problem with drug-dealers owning AKs is a drug problem and not a gun problem. Fix the drug-problem, i.e. get rid of the insane war on drugs and pass a rational set of drug laws, and both problems will simply go away. A rational set of drug laws would:

  • Legalize marijuana and all its derivatives and anything else demonstrably no more harmful than booze on the same basis as booze.
  • Declare that heroine, crack cocaine, and other highly addictive substances would never be legally sold on the streets, but that those addicted could shoot up at government centers for the fifty-cent cost of producing the stuff, i.e. take every dime out of that business for criminals.
  • Provide a lifetime in prison for selling LSD, PCP, and other Jeckyl/Hyde formulas.
  • Same for anybody selling any kind of drugs to kids.


Do all of that, and the drug problem, the gun problem, and 70% of all urban crime will vanish within two years.

But I digress. The 2'nd ammendment is there as a final bulwark against our own government going out of control. It is also there as a bulwark against any foreign invasion which our own military might not be able to stop.

Admiral Yamamoto, when asked by the Japanese general staff about the possibility of invading the American homeland, replied that there were fifty million lunatics in this country who owned military style weaponry, and that there would be "a rifle behind every blade of grass". This apparently bothered him a great deal more than the 200,000 or so guys in uniform prior to the war.

A third obvious reason for private ownership of firearms is to protect yourself and your family from criminals and wild animals. In particular, there is no real reason for people to have to surrender that right when they go outdoors, hence concealed carry laws.

And there's a fourth reason for the 2'nd ammendment, which is to provide the people with food during bad economic times. When you listen to people from New York and from Texas talk about the depression of the 30's, you hear two totally different stories. The people in New York will tell you about people starving and eating garbage, and running around naked. The Texans (and others from more rural areas and places in which laws and customs had remained closer to those which the founding fathers envisioned) will tell you that while money was scarce, they always had 22 and 30 calibre ammunition, and that they always had some damnd thing to eat, even if it was just some jackrabbit.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2006 06:21 pm
Why would the peoples of other nations wish to copy the crazy American system of firearm ownership you ask??

Consider:

http://emj.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/22/2/118

Quote:

Results: Of a total of 142 cases of snakebite there were 86 elapid bites presenting with neuroparalytic symptoms and 52 viper bites having haemostatic abnormalities. Some 60.6% of the cases of snakebite occurred when the patient was asleep. Urban to rural ratio was 1:4.7 and male to female ratio was 4.25:1. Median time to arrival at our hospital after the bite was nine hours and mean duration of hospital stay was eight days. Twenty seven cases had acute renal failure and 75% of all elapid bites required assisted ventilation. Seventeen of 119 patients who received antivenom had an adverse event. The average dose of antivenom was 51.2 vials for elapid bites and 31 vials for viper bites. Overall mortality rate was 3.5%.

Conclusion: Snakebites are common in the rural population of developing countries. There is a need to educate the public about the hazards of snakebite, early hospital referral, and treatment.

Keywords: snakebite; elapids; viper; cobra; krait; neuroparalysis; acute renal failure; haemostatic abnormalities; antivenom

Snakebite is a common medical emergency encountered in South Asia. In India alone 15 000 people of 20 000 bitten by snakes die every year.1 The principal effects of envenomation are on the nervous system, kidneys, heart, blood coagulability, vascular endothelium, and locally at the site of bite.1-3 The victims of snakebites are mainly of the rural population, who are bitten during field work and when sleeping outdoors........



Those kinds of things do not happen in a nation whose people are armed.
0 Replies
 
 

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