stupid is as stupid does

kelticwizard wrote:

"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."
-Dan Quayle

It was a Quayle quote, not Gore

http://www.ahajokes.com/gb002.html

Dan Quayle has certainly made more than his share of misstatements, and most* of the ones on the following list are actual Quayle quotes (although versions of this list with all the quotes mischievously attributed to Vice-President Al Gore and Texas governor George W. Bush also circulate around the Internet).

*nimh: the exceptions are marked on the page - but the "bondage" one is real.

snood wrote:

LoneStarMadam wrote:

"Terrorism started with Abu Graib"
John Murtha

Can you source that quote?

Yes.

You aren't denying that Murtha said it, are you?

LoneStarMadam wrote:

You aren't denying that Murtha said it, are you?

Well, with the only sources for the quote in the entire Googled world appearing to be two blog posts, I'll say it seems highly unlikely he ever said it.

("nimph"? are you the same one who was just excoriating snood for misspelling your name?)

LoneStarMadam, I just called my bookie and placed a bet that you are a bitter old hag that lives above a laundromat and owns thirty cats.

Will I win the bet?

LoneStarMadam wrote:

"Terrorism started with Abu Graib"
John Murtha

Can you source that quote?

LoneStarMadam wrote:

You aren't denying that Murtha said it, are you?

Well, with the only sources for the quote in the entire Googled world appearing to be two blog posts, I'll say it seems highly unlikely he ever said it.

REP. JOHN MURTHA: Margaret, Margaret, the flawed policy is what's devaluated their service. They had inadequate forces when they went in, and then they disbanded the army.

These troops are disciplined. They can't speak for themselves. It's up to the Congress of the United States. Only the Congress can send our nation to war, and the Congress -- and I voted to go to war. When I looked at the intelligence, I believed the same way they believed.

But now I believe the opposite. I believe we've done everything we can do. I believe we have become the enemy. And I'll tell you this: The Iraqis are not going to do the fighting unless we turn it over to them. They're going to let us continue.

If we allow our measurement to get out of their up to the Iraqis, we'll never get out. It's going to be up to us to decide when we get out of there.

Now, when I say redeploy our troops, I'm talking about to Kuwait, if they allow us to redeploy there, to Okinawa where we can be over the horizon, go back in, in case there's more terrorist activity.

You have got to remember, Margaret, there was no terrorist activity in Iraq at all before we went in there. There's been an increase. The State Department said there's been an increase in terrorist activity in the last couple of years, before they stopped putting the report out.

MARGARET WARNER: Okay. But the president does say, as you know, that for whatever reason Iraq --

John MurthaREP. JOHN MURTHA: But the president said a lot of things, and they turned out not to be true. The president said there are weapons of mass destruction. The president said oil would pay for it. The president cut taxes at a time when we're in a war.

MARGARET WARNER: So do you reject -

REP. JOHN MURTHA: Just because he says it doesn't make it so. The American people don't believe this president.

MARGARET WARNER: But may I ask you, sir, if you believe -- he says -- for whatever reason, Iraq has become the center of terrorism - that if the U.S. appears to retreat in the face of that, that it will be a blow to the American fight against radical Islamic terrorism? What do you say to that?

REP. JOHN MURTHA: Well, I say that the fight against Americans began with Abu Ghraib. It began with the invasion of Iraq. That's when terrorism started. It didn't start when there was criticism of this administration. This administration doesn't want to listen to any ideas.

This is an idea of how we can save lives, of how we can be on the periphery of Iraq and send troops back in, in case there is an increase in terrorism that we need to go back in.

The Iraqis have to control this themselves. They're proud people. They've got to realize this election -- and I'm saying this before the election because I believe the Iraqis have to -- when they elect somebody, they've got to unify that country, and we have got to ask for international help to work through the problem. I think terrorism would stop. I think it would be the opposite. We're the enemy. We're reason they're -- we're the ones they're attacking for heaven's sake. We're the only thing that could unify the Iraqis.

The future of the U.S. Military

MARGARET WARNER: You said something today, and I'm going to quote you, you said, "The future of our military is at risk if the U.S. stays in Iraq much longer."

REP. JOHN MURTHA: Yes.

MARGARET WARNER: Explain in a nutshell what you meant by that.

John MurthaREP. JOHN MURTHA: Yes. And this is really a problem. We have got $50 billion worth of ground equipment which needs to be rehabilitated, and I've told all the CEO's that's where they ought to be looking because we're not going to be able to buy 'em anything.

We only bought four or five ships this year. They cut back $5 billion out of defense this year, and what I worry about, it takes 18 years to put a system in place, and we don't know what the threat is. Is China the threat down the road?

We don't want to -- there to be a misperception that we're not prepared to fight a war. We don't want somebody miscalculating like they did in Korea. George Washington said the best way to preserve peace is to have -- be prepared with your military, and that's what we have to be.

MARGARET WARNER: Let me ask you about something the vice president said last night, and the president has said it. And they are saying that it's irresponsible for Democrats like you, who saw the intelligence before the war, who voted for the war, to now be out criticizing the war and undercutting it. What do you say to that?

REP. JOHN MURTHA: Well, I say that it's time to return our troops -- I say to redeploy our troops out of Iraq. I say it's time to change direction in Iraq. The American people are way ahead of us. You know, Cheney, he is a good friend of mine. The president, they may believe what they're saying, but it's an illusion.

A year from now, if we stay in there, we're going to be - we'll have the same number of casualties, if not more; this thing is not going to get better.

MARGARET WARNER: Republicans who have worked with you on defense issues for decades were stunned by this, what did you today. Was it hard for you to come to this?

John MurthaREP. JOHN MURTHA: Well, it's not a matter of being hard. It's what I decided. My conclusion was, that in measuring every element that I've seen, and a number of Republicans came to me and said they thought it was a very thoughtful statement. But the point is I came to this conclusion by measuring the casualties, by measuring the criteria for success which they sent over themselves, and then looking and seeing no progress at all, economically, or on the ground.

MARGARET WARNER: Finally, Congressman, do you think the fact that you as a defense hawk have now come to this position, do you think this represents a tipping point? Are you hearing from other Democrats who voted for the war that they're coming to this view themselves?

REP. JOHN MURTHA: I hope this is a watershed. I hope a lot of people think about what I've said and we can begin to withdraw our troops immediately from that area and put them on the horizon, or over the horizon, so if they have to they can go back in.

MARGARET WARNER: All right. Congressman John Murtha, thank you so much.

REP. JOHN MURTHA: Nice to be here, Margaret.

One of the favorite tactics of right-wing propagandists nis to deceive by taking posts out of context:

"Terrorism started with Abu Graib" .

"Well, I say that the fight against Americans began with Abu Ghraib. It began with the invasion of Iraq. That's when terrorism started. ..."

Tico:

Not only was the quote taken out of context, it is NOT the same quote LoneStarMadam keeps insisting Murtha made.

LoneStarMadam says Murtha said the following words.

Quote:

"Terrorism started with Abu Graib" .

She didn't say this was a summary of his words, or the gist of his words, she insists those were his very words.


The words Murtha did say were these.

Quote:

"Well, I say that the fight against Americans began with Abu Ghraib. It began with the invasion of Iraq. That's when terrorism started. ..."

Apart from being technically different, there are significant differences in meaning between these two "quote"-I use quote marks because Murtha did not say the first one.

When one says "Terrorism began", it implies that is the first time terrorism was ever used. You know, like "the world began" or "life began" or "democracy began", etc.

However, the second quote refers to terrorism in this situation-not that it began first time in history here, or for first time since America was discovered, or something similar.

The two [quotes] are, however, functionally identical....

"Well, I say that the fight against Americans began with Abu Ghraib. It began with the invasion of Iraq. That's when terrorism started. ..."

I don't follow you here ... who said "terrorism began"?

Not for the first time, Keltic already said everything I'd wanted to say... :wink:

LSM making fun of the way people look again, what's that about the fourth time today. Oh, if y'all really knew.