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Carter blames Israel for Mideast conflict

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 05:44 am
monte

Goodness. You found that Barak response. Well done. Of course, it was a response, that is, it followed upon a much longer and more detailed essay by two participants in the peace negotiations at that time. It can be read here...
Quote:
Camp David: The Tragedy of Errors
By Hussein Agha, Robert Malley

Mr. Malley, as Special Assistant to President Clinton for Arab-Israeli Affairs, was a member of the US peace team and participated in the Camp David summit. Mr. Agha has been involved in Palestinian affairs for more than thirty years and during this period has had an active part in Israeli-Palestinian relations.


Your claim above re certain US papers and networks maintaining pro-palestinian and anti-israeli positions in coverage/editorials seems a little presumptuous. Outside of the St. Petersburg Times, I read those papers noted (and quite a few others) every day. I have an acute suspicion that you do not. Further, you compare them to what? You hadn't read Israel's own Ha'aretz until I steered you there. So, on what evidentiary or experiential basis do you make this assertion. (Warning: I won't be compelled by more assertions, even if from Rush or from Krauthammer).
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 01:49 pm
It is completely dumfounding the straight-up bigotry and prejudice barefacedly expressed by the very leader of a state against an entire people, a population of which their state is engaged in utter discrimination and oppression.

In reference to the Palestinian people in his interview with the NYRB, Ehud Barak says that:

They are products of a culture in which to tell a lie...creates no dissonance. They don't suffer from the problem of telling lies that exists in Judeo-Christian culture. Truth is seen as an irrelevant category. There is only that which serves your purpose and that which doesn't. They see themselves as emissaries of a national movement for whom everything is permissible. There is no such thing as "the truth."

Equally astonishing is the utter lack of backlash among the peoples of the US and its media against this defamation, especially and ironically among those populations to whom defamation is a particularly sensitive issue.

I suspect that for a vast portion of the US population Barak's utterances are but a matter of course.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 03:07 pm
Barak's Generous Offers...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A Villa in the Jungle"
An in-depth analysis of the reasons for the Catastrophe at Camp David 2
and the major roll former prime minister Ehud Barak had played
in shattering the peace process.
lonk
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 06:34 pm
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=12637

Israel to destroy 42k Palestinian homes.

Why? Oh, no reason really, just because they feel like it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 06:39 pm
Cyclo, Just read "the Other Side Of Israel" by Susan Nathan to learn how the Palestinians have been getting robbed of their homes and property without any legal rights in Israel. It's about the most upsetting book I've ever read.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 06:44 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Cyclo, Just read "the Other Side Of Israel" by Susan Nathan to learn how the Palestinians have been getting robbed of their homes and property without any legal rights in Israel. It's about the most upsetting book I've ever read.


Read it. It's one of hte most powerful things I've ever read as well.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 11:27 am
The Hamas elected leader of the Pals just announced that the government will never recognize the right of Israel to exist. I guess this closes the door to any settlement between the countries.

Infra, there was defamation is the statement that lying is fully accepted by the Pals. Arafat, in a speech to his people in Arabic, said he felt free to lie to the Israelis because of the Koran. He cited a passage in which the Messenger spoke of his lie to the attacking Persians, which gave him time to assemble a force to counter attack.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 11:32 am
Advocate, I understand the Pals position of never recognizing the right for Israel to exist. If I were a Palestinian living in Israel, I may come to the same conclusion. Israel has all the power and legal rights; who amongst us would feel any different? Military power and high fences is never the right solution; it's called democracy and equal treatment for all citizens.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 11:39 am
Advocate, Hamas is more than ready to settle for a 2 state solution. Time and again since their legit election they've made that clear. Acceptence of a 2 state solution using 1967 borders is acceptence enough of Israel's existence. Why should any Palestinian ever say Israel had the right to drive and murder them out of their homes? When Israel is ready for a 2 state solution it's there for the taking. "Shin Bet vetoed Secret Israeli-Palestinian Peace Agreement
Israeli and Palestinian Sources Concur: Israel Made War Inevitable" http://www.globalecho
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 11:50 am
CI, an extension of logic would say that Mexico should not recognize the USA because we are building fences on the border and have a strong military.

Blue, your statement is nonsensical. You effectively say that Hamas should not recognize Israel until the Pals get 100 % of what they want. BTW, there is nothing magical about the '67 borders. There were hundreds of attacks on Israel by the Pals before the '67 war. Thus, the Pals forfeited such borders.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 11:54 am
And I'm against that fence!
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 11:57 am
Advocate wrote:
BTW, there is nothing magical about the '67 borders. There were hundreds of attacks on Israel by the Pals before the '67 war. Thus, the Pals forfeited such borders.


If attacks forfeit borders then there are no borders for anyone in the middle east.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 01:12 pm
I still believe in:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
0 Replies
 
Atavistic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 01:19 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I still believe in:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

You believe in this in regards to whom?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 01:20 pm
CI, you really shouldn't embrace cliches. I am for a very limited number of immigrants allowed in, and these should be people who would fit in and benefit the country.

FD, borders do indeed shift. Our borders have.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 01:28 pm
by WLK:
This may be a little overstated, but I leave it up to you to decide. It would take only a few more suicide bombers in New York Chicago and San Francisco to change some attitudes in our country. But, if Europe is already gone it will surely put a cremp on ou ability to save our country.


The Muslim world the Ottoman ( Turks ) Empire created in Europe never reached its present positions for armies of German,French,Dutch and Italians finally halted its drive into Europe.. Today ,immigration and extensive child bearing are conquering Europe for the Muslim..........The

immigration began when European buisnesses went looking for cheap help.

Does this ring any bells for you ?

The Rape of Europe


By Paul Belien
Created 2006-10-25 20:57

The German author Henryk M. Broder recently told the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant (12 October) that young Europeans who love freedom, better emigrate. Europe as we know it will no longer exist 20 years from now.

Whilst sitting on a terrace in Berlin, Broder pointed to the other customers and the passers-by and said

melancholically: "We are watching the world of yesterday."

Europe is turning Muslim. As Broder is sixty years old he is not going to emigrate himself. "I am too old," he said.

However, he urged young people to get out and "move to Australia or New Zealand. That is the only option they

have if they want to avoid the plagues that will turn the old continent uninhabitable."

Many Germans and Dutch, apparently, did not wait for Broder's advice. The number of emigrants leaving

the Netherlands and Germany has already surpassed the number of immigrants moving in. One does not have

to be prophetic to predict, like Henryk Broder, that Europe is becoming Islamic. Just consider the demographics.

The number of Muslims in contemporary Europe is estimated to be 50 million. It is expected to double in twenty

years. By 2025, one third of all European children will be born to Muslim families. Today Mohammed is already

the most popular name for new-born boys in Brussels, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and other major European cities.

Broder is convinced that the Europeans are not willing to oppose islamization. "The dominant ethos," he told De Volkskrant, "is perfectly voiced by the stupid blonde woman author with whom I recently debated. She said that

it is sometimes better to let yourself be raped than to risk serious injuries while resisting. She said it is sometimes

better to avoid fighting than run the risk of death."

In a recent op-ed piece in the Brussels newspaper De Standaard (23 October) the Dutch (gay and self-declared "humanist") author Oscar Van den Boogaard refers to Broder's interview. Van den Boogaard says that to him

coping with the islamization of Europe is like "a process of mourning." He is overwhelmed by a "feeling of

sadness." "I am not a warrior," he says, "but who is? I have never learned to fight for my freedom. I was only

good at enjoying it."

As Tom Bethell wrote in this month's American Spectator: "Just at the most basic level of demography the

secular-humanist option is not working." But there is more to it than the fact that non-religious people tend not to

have as many children as religious people, because many of them prefer to "enjoy" freedom rather than renounce

it for the sake of children. Secularists, it seems to me, are also less keen on fighting. Since they do not believe in

an afterlife, this life is the only thing they have to lose. Hence they will rather accept submission than fight. Like the

German feminist Broder referred to, they prefer to be raped than to resist.

"If faith collapses, civilization goes with it," says Bethell. That is the real cause of the closing of civilization in

Europe. Islamization is simply the consequence. The very word Islam means "submission" and the secularists

have submitted already. Many Europeans have already become Muslims, though they do not realize it or do not

want to admit it.

Some of the people I meet in the U.S. are particularly worried about the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe. They

are correct when they fear that anti-Semitism is also on the rise among non-immigrant Europeans. The latter

hate people with a fighting spirit. Contemporary anti-Semitism in Europe (at least when coming from native

Europeans) is related to anti-Americanism. People who are not prepared to resist and are eager to submit,

hate others who do not want to submit and are prepared to fight. They hate them because they are afraid that

the latter will endanger their lives as well. In their view everyone must submit.

This is why they have come to hate Israel and America so much, and the small band of European "islamophobes"

who dare to talk about what they see happening around them. West Europeans have to choose between

submission ( islam) or death. I fear, like Broder, that they have chosen submission-just like in former days

when they preferred to be red rather than dead.

Source URL:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1609

Article 2



America, read and heed.

Subject: Brussels Journal


The Brussels Journal offers an interesting (terrifying) piece on the progress Muslims have made in their demographic

conquest of Western Europe. The initial focus has been in cities, from which they are rapidly displacing the native inhabitants.

As the author Fjordman predicts, soon, you will travel from London to Paris, Amsterdam or Stockholm and find that you have

left one city dominated by burkas and sharia to find yet another city dominated by burkas and sharia.

Absurdly, the politically correct Left is celebrating the replacement of Europe's diverse cultures by a single grim Islamic one in

the name of "cultural diversity." Here are a few examples of what this so-called diversity entails:

In England, Muslims are creating no-go areas for native Europeans. Signs indicate that whites can enter only at their own risk.

Hindus are also subjected to ethnic cleansing. Caucasians are fleeing Londonistan in droves.

In France, there were 818 of these "no-go" zones when the presumably horrified government stopped keeping track - which

was way back in 2002. Anything representing Western civilization, including post office trucks and fire engines, is routinely

attacked with Molotov cocktails in these areas.

The welfare checks go in; only violence and Islam come out. In French math classes, Muslim students refuse to write "plus"

signs because they remind them of the Christian cross. Following last year's riots, the police announced that the situation had returned to normal when a day passed with only 98 vehicles set on fire by Muslim hooligans.

In Holland, Muslims will soon make up the majority in all major cities. Forty percent of Moroccan Muslims in the Netherlands

explicitly reject Western values and democracy. Thirty-two percent of native Dutch already want out of what's left of their

country.

In Germany, at least 50 women have been killed in the past decade in "honor killings" - I.e., for trying to live Western lifestyles.

Germans are considered by the Muslim colonizers to be "stinking people" who are "doomed to go to hell" for being "useless

creatures and infidels."

In Denmark, Muslim taxi drivers spy on female immigrants, so they can be hunted down and killed if they attempt to escape

from Muslim society.

In Norway and Sweden, protection money must be paid to bloodthirsty Muslim gangs.

It is becoming increasingly impossible to deny that the bleak and brutal culture of Islam is in the process of destroying

European civilization. Yet Islam is only an opportunistic infection. Muslims have wanted to destroy the West for well over a millennium. If they are only now beginning to succeed, it is because only now is the West willing to let itself be destroyed.

As Dutch politician Frits Bolkestein puts it, Muslim conquest by immigration has to do with the loss of confidence in one's

own civilization. ... There is no clear European identity today.

This has a real impact on foreign policy.

In other words, Europe is dying because it doesn't believe in itself. Where once pride acted as an immune system to protect

from external threats, now there is only the sanctimonious self-hatred known as liberalism.

***********************************

Is it too late?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 01:35 pm
Why not cliches? It's a whole lot better than the alternative. It's up to our government to control illegal and legal immigration; they've so far done a piss-poor job at it. The cliche is the most reasonable at this point in time.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 01:40 pm
CI, from your statements, I gather that you are delighted that the government has failed to control immigration.

Should there be no control, it won't be long before we look like Hong Kong, India, China, et al.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 01:48 pm
Advoate, You're doing what most conservatives do on a2k, translate what we say into what you think we said but didn't. Show me where I said it made me happy that the government failed in their responsibility to control illegal and legal immigration? Good show!
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 01:54 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I still believe in:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."


CI, your copying the above without caveat implies that you favor open borders. Of course, open borders for Israel would ensure its quick demise.

I suggest you explain yourself a bit better.
0 Replies
 
 

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