Carter blames Israel for Mideast conflict

Puleeezzz!

Advocate, Israel's background is what concerns most. The bombing of Lebanon should land Olmert at the Hague.

[That is total bull. Israel went to incredible lengths to avoid civilian casualties (e.g., dropping warnings from planes). It could have easily killed a million or so.]

The use of WMD by Israel in that war is well documented as well.

[This is untrue. Very few civilians were killed. Moreover, Hez used similar weapons on Israel.]

And America's track record is a horror. Iran has not invaded another nation in over 2 centuries. The war in Gaza is another ongoing Israeli atrocity. The last time Israel showed a real interest in a dignified 2 state solution Rabin took a bullet. I think Ahmadinejad's call for regime change in Israel is a no brainer.

[Be honest! Ahmadineejad is calling for Israel to be wiped off the map.]

Olmert should be charged with crimes against humanity in Lebanon and Gaza.

[This is unworthy of response.[

George, you don't seem to mind being a disingenuous. Unlike in the case of the USA, Israel's war were not of its making. Israel was attacked and defended itself.

Advocate, from what Ahmadinejad has said he wants a nuclear free ME and international arms treaties. Non-proliferation. There's no proof Iran is is breaking the Non-proliferation treaty yet on Bushie's suspicions sanctions were brought against them. That sure makes the UN Security Council and the treaty itself look a sham. Israel and the US and others are the ones known to have defied the treaty. As ElBaradei points out the double standards got to end.

Advocate wrote:

George, you don't seem to mind being a disingenuous. Unlike in the case of the USA, Israel's war were not of its making. Israel was attacked and defended itself.

Israel, in company with the Forces of Britain and France, invaded Egypt in 1956, following Nasser's seizure of the canal which the British in turn stole from Egypt 80 years earlier. Though there were preparations for conflict, assaults and offenses on both sides, Israel initiated the wars of 1956, 1967 and later in Lebanon.

What do you imply constitutes a just war? If the U.S. should come to the aid of Israel in one of its struggles against its neighbors, as we did for the South Vietnamese government in 1964, would you call that mass murder? "of our own making" is not an accepted definition of a just war.

One could make a very strong case that even Israel's defensive wars (and they were not all defensive) were unjust because they were defending the illegal and unjust seizure of the territory of other peoples and holding them in bondage, without rights or basic freedoms.

There is no basis here for one to believe that you are applying consistent standards, and considering all the salient facts in your truly outrageous assertion that while the United States is guilty of mass murder, Israel is not. That is a tortured interpretation of carefully selected facts and lies. It is itself a lie.

You still have not chosen to answer a clear and direct question related to your indefensable assertion. Why?

The USA killed over 3 million in Nam, and about 600,000 in Iraq. That is big-time mass murder.

You persist in posting disingenuous statements as if you believed that repeating them ad nauseum would somehow make them true.

History just doesn't support your anti-Israeli prejudice, particularly with respect to the 5 day war of 1967. As I posted earlier, the country of Israel had a complete blockade of goods and services through the Strait of Homuz that was imposed by Egypt. Lyndon Johnson attempted to diplomatically resolve the conflict and Israel abided by the U.S. request not to wage war after the U.S. declared the Gulf of Aqaba to be an international waterway.

Obviously, a total blockade is an act of war. Before Israel launched an offensive, several Arab nations signed a defense pact and called for total destruction of Israel.

Monte Cargo, let's see I can believe your spin or listen to El Baradei.

Of course you completely ignore the violations of the US and Israel on non-proliferation. Double standards and hypocrisy.

One thing that stands out with Bushie pushing preemptive wars and a blueprint for world domination is that the rest of the world is forced to seek deterrents.

Maybe that's what war manufacturers like Bushie really want. Constant confrontation and war.

The fact that Powers was not shot down does not prove that the U2 was not a spy plane. The fact that he has Russian Rubles shows a priori that he was on a mission related to Russia or the Soviet Union.

There is a saying that victimology may not necessarily makes the victim innocent. There is a make-up in Judaism and Israel that ensures isolation. It is based on a Book of Mythical proportions giving exclusive rights to righteousness based on Cleanliness taken from Zoroastrianism. It is an exclusive religion thus it isolates itself. It is a myth that Isaac was Abraham's ONLY begotten son when his first-born was Ishmael from his union with Hagar, the Egyptian hand-maiden. Abraham's many disowned sons and daughters from his other wives and concubines shows Abraham's lack of filial responsibility. The book presents a flat earth and a Babylonian myth of Creation.

Monte Cargo wrote:

You persist in posting disingenuous statements as if you believed that repeating them ad nauseum would somehow make them true.

History just doesn't support your anti-Israeli prejudice, particularly with respect to the 5 day war of 1967. As I posted earlier, the country of Israel had a complete blockade of goods and services through the Strait of Homuz that was imposed by Egypt. Lyndon Johnson attempted to diplomatically resolve the conflict and Israel abided by the U.S. request not to wage war after the U.S. declared the Gulf of Aqaba to be an international waterway.

Obviously, a total blockade is an act of war. Before Israel launched an offensive, several Arab nations signed a defense pact and called for total destruction of Israel.

The Straits of Hormuz are the entrance to the Persian Gulf - I think you meant Terran.

I have posted no disingenuous statements here. You are attacking a point I didn't make - ever. Moreover you, like Advocate, are evading any direct answers to the central points I have indeed made repeatedly. Who then is being disingenuous?

I said Israel initiated the war of 1967 in preemptive attacks on Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. That statement is literally true. I acknowledged Nasser's precipitating actions with respect to expelling the UN observers from Egyptian territory in Sinai (Israel had never allowed them on their side of the border), and by closing the Straits of Terran to Israeli shipping. I indicated that closing the Straits was indeed a causus belli -- against Egypt, but not against Syria and Jordan, which Israel also attacked without warning.

The central argument I have been repeating, and to which neither you nor Advocate have responded, concerned Israel's attempts to grab the land and commerce of the West Bank as a spoil of war, without taking any responsibility for the fate of its inhabitants. You have already acknowledged the truth of this statement - indeed you made it yourself.

Israel has occupied the West Bank and controlled the lives of its inhabitants for almost forty years now, while steadily expropriating their land and property, and granted them none of their basic human or political rights -- all in defiance of repeated Security Council resolutions, and, more significantly, the basic norms of behavior for civilized nations.

The so-called "peace" terms that Israel has offered were no better than those put forward by the late and unlamented Apartheidt government of South Africa, with respect to the African population of the country. Moreover they were misrepresented by Israel as representing 90% of the territory of the West Bank, when in fact it was only 40%, and that in 30+ enclaves, each completely surrounded by Israeli territory, and with no control of airspace or water rights. This is a basis for continued servitude, not a free state.

The theft of property and ethnic cleansing that Israel has practiced in the West Bank are acts of injustice comparable to those of Serbia and the former Government of South Africa.

I have no prejudice against Israel. I do have opinions based on observable facts. For your part, you have misrepresented my arguments, and gone to rather great lengths to avoid answering them directly.

Will you will next suggest I am an anti Semite? That is the usual (and most contemptable) last ditch escape from addressing the basic issues here.

Reconnaissance means spying to me.

There was no war. However, I do agree that Communism was a threat. I am just pointing out the mentality of Krushchev and probable cause for his belligerence that may have caused him to deliberately seek a confrontation with Kennedy after the U2 affair.