Why does my family have to be so f*cked up?

CoastalRat, with all due respect, why on earth would you do that? How do you know he knows that and is not just gritting his teeth and bearing it? From everything else you say, that has to be at the very least unpleasant for him. The "because we love you" reason doesn't cut it for me.



This thread certainly makes me thankful that whatever shortcomings my family has, they're not religious like this (or at all, actually). Yikes. Much sympathy, Kicky. (And Heph, and Lash, and...)

coastal rat....all due respect too....but I think kicky's family goes beyond the religious thing.....

gee I hope we haven't scared him away.

even if it didn't, like soz said, how do you know he know you're doing it for his own good.

why not let the man live his life the way he chooses? He's not deaf, he's heard you...now leave him alone.

That would be hard.

My family was closer to Garg's. Drink, swear, and be merry, then go to Mass and be cleansed.
Except mamere and that lot. They are totally insane. However, grandmother's are easier to protest against than mothers or fathers.

Still, my father did get very upset when I told him I questioned my belief in god. Very upset.

And I still am in a tenous contact with mamere. I do believe in hell - it is a pretty french woman telling you about your sins!!

I don't really know, but it is pretty apparent that you have some Catho guilt going on. That sucks. That's poison.

You could always send her cards and such right back. Every time. With a little note attached - I love you. Please don't send religious cards anymore..

Silent protest can be very satisfying. And self satisfaction is pretty much your own route with fanatics.

Chai and Soz, with all due respect back to you, it is my firm belief that I know my brother better than the two of you, thus you will just have to take my word for it. I could go into all kinds of details about how I know what I stated is so, but why clog up this thread with that? (Heck, maybe it is as simple as the advice I gave Kicky, that my brother and I have talked about it...gee, what an amazing thing conversation is)

Based on what Kicky has written, it sounds as though his family is going overboard in their attempts to convert Kicky, to the point that Kicky is getting irritated. So why not just sit them down and talk it over with them? My story was just to make the point that doing that probably won't stop them completely, but should get them to tone it down a bit.

Re: Why does my family have to be so f*cked up?
Chai, no you guys didn't scare me away, and I didn't take anything you said as a dig either. I just got a little more emotional about this than I should have last night, which made me feel like a f*ckin' idiot, so I had to go do something else. As usual, that entailed trying (and failing) to focus on something other than beating myself up for being a bad son.

I wanted to respond to each person who wrote in this thread, but it's just too much, so is it alright if I just thank you guys for being so understanding, helpful, and just all around beautiful people? This site is just loaded with beautiful people. Thanks.

And I realized something else as I was beating myself up for writing such vile stuff about my own family last night. It's not only the religion that bugs me, although that is a major annoyance. The fact that I am now the outcast of my family because of their religious beliefs does sicken me, but my brother and father are also into the religion, and they never mention it. They leave me alone. And my sister-in-law is just an idiot, and I guess I don't consider her a "real" member of my family, so her proselytizing bothers me in a different, much less deeply-rooted way, kind of like a buzzing gnat around my ear. I don't care what her opinion of me is, so it doesn't matter.

But my mother. I realize now that my mother doing this is the one that really gets me. And the thing is, she has really tried to stay out of that area of my life. For a long time now, it's been pretty good. I should be more understanding about it, since her mother just passed away about a month ago. Of course that is going to cause her to lean on her faith even more. And of course, this is probably the reason behind her renewed efforts to save me.

So...this pamphlet she sent me about salvation--it's such a little thing. Why did I get so upset about it? I think there is a lot more to this than the simple religious wacko aspect.

Is this the part where I realize that I have an oedipal complex, and I actually want to sleep with my mother?

Nah, but seeing the situation in relation to her mother's death is helpful.

Noted, CoastalRat. It seems really disrespectful to me, but it's your brother's call. My larger point stands, that plenty of odious things are justified in the name of "because I love you." In and of itself, doesn't excuse anything IMO.

Kicky, that all makes a lot of sense. I do think it's easier said than done though -- I'm sure you're right that it's no big deal in the scheme of things, but I can certainly see how it would rankle.

Ah, kicky. I think your Mom's just operating out of fear.

I don't think it's a coincidence that she just lost her own mother, and she's now redoubling her efforts to "protect" you. She's sounds like she's trying to control everything and everyone around her in an effort to prevent -- or at least minimize -- anything bad from happening to herself or any of her loved ones.

So I don't think it has anything to do with you not being "good enough." I'm sure you are, especially as far as she's concerned.

Do you really think if you made $10,000 a year less she'd stop loving you? Or if your apartment was bigger or you were two inches taller, she'd love you more? I don't think so.

She's just using the only path she knows of to keep her loved ones safe. Of course, she's going about it the wrong way -- and it's annoying when someone tries to be so controlling. But just try to imagine the fear that lies behind it.

The only thing I can suggest is to stay firm about your position -- but be gentle too. Don't get angry or raise your voice. Just be firm -- but calm. The calmer you are, the more of an impact it will make.

And reassure her as much as you can that you're doing the best you can. You're not going to deliberately do something bad or stupid or dangerous.

You're just going to do the only thing that anyone can expect from us (including Jesus!)...which is.....the best you can.

Then pat her hand, give her a wink and a hug.

My parents were really f*cked up. That's why I killed them.

kicky...

I love you too man....


here's a funny story to cheer you up.

my father died of multiple myeloma. oma-oma-oma as in cancer.
(no, that's not the funny part, stop laughing)

When my mother first told me the diagnosis, I wasn't 100% sure, so I asked..."Is that some kind of cancer"?

OH NO!!! No, it's not....

She told me she'd send me some info in the mail about it (as if I cared, but hey sure).
In the meantime I looked it up and knew the score. When I get her package, it's all these booklets from the New Jersey Cancer Society. So when I call her I said...."so after reading the info from the CANCER society...."
Over the next few months she would use the word and knew there was no cure for this one...but at same time I could understand her having a hard time dealing with this.

Anyway...At one point she said something REALLY off the wall, and I said to her something like...."You know, it really sounds like you're in denial about all this"

ok here comes the funny part....she says,


"No, I'm not in denial, I just can't believe this is happening"

Just a note of explanation (though one is not necessary, I know, but I'm in the explaining mood today I guess), when I say we talk about our faith to my brother, it is not in the way of "Hey, if you don't believe like we do you're gonna go to hell" type of conversation. It is a conversation of general beliefs and such usually brought up by a family related issue.

My family does not think much of bashing people over the head with our faith until they agree with us or kill us. His views are clear and we respect them but we do not shy from talking about our faith to him when it is a natural part of the conversation. Hope this clears that up. If every time Kicky sees his family they are hitting him with "hellfire and brimstone", then I think they need to rethink there methods of telling others about Christ.

Anyway, good luck Kicky. Hope you have a good Thanksgiving. (And dare I say it? Oh yeah, why not, I'm in that kind of a mood today) May God bless you with safe travels as you visit with your family.

Thanks, CR. And may the god of your choice always keep the underwear from bunching up in your crack.

Kicky--

Can you tell your mother you agree with "My Father's house has many mansions?"

This works with the religious fringes of my family.

I guess I could try that. I don't know. I think maybe Lash was right. Just pretending might be the way to go. On the other hand, maybe I should just move somewhere far enough away that I won't have to deal with them. The moon, perhaps?

Re: Why does my family have to be so f*cked up?


Have you any idea what changed in the last five years to have such a drastic effect? A serious illness for any of them? A tragedy? A death?

It seems strange that all these people (who I presume are in very close proximity) have all had the same increased religious fervour.

It wasn't kick-started by 9/11 was it? I know after the terrorist attacks that a lot of people re-evaluated their lives and some made major changes. Could your family members have turned to religion in this time and found comfort there?

Whatever the reason, it is a pain in the tuckus for them to harrangue you with pamphlets and push you to join them, as it were. My mother used to be a religious nut when we were younger. She was raised in a very strict Catholic atmosphere. She used to make us drop to our knees and pray at noon every day, forced religion, shame and guilt on our heads like religion was a punishment and not a joy, so the majority of us grew up destesting religion, or just being numb to it. With the exception of one sister, none of us attend church or regularly pray. My mother is less of a tyrant as she has grown older and she has loosened up quite considerably in fact. She used to badger us - but when one of her kids moved to Australia, another to America, another to England, another to .... well she finally got the message. Or should I say, I told her straight out that her heaping of hate (as I called it) was in fact turning us away from God rather than encouraging us to find him and to believe.

These days she is much better. She is still religious but she does not lash us with her beliefs. Instead it is much easier now to talk about religion and for her to hear our views and us to hear hers. I don't begrudge that she needs religion and she has finally accepted that I don't.

I'm not saying that moving far away to punish a family for shoving religion down your throat works - it's just the message we sent her to try to get her to understand that we didn't want to be around her when she was the 'religious nut'. Now that she has toned it down, we are closer than we ever were before.

When you visit your family at Thanksgiving, tell them straight out that they are making you feel absolutely well and truly miserable by forcing their beliefs down your throat and ask them why they want to push you away from religion. If they realize that what they are doing is having the complete opposite effect of what they are trying to achieve then they might stop. Instead of slamming beliefs down a persons throat, an intelligent conversation might be key. If you simply cannot get them to back off and they are obnoxious about their beliefs being the only way, then tell them it will negatively affect how often you communicate with them. I am certain your family do not want you to avoid talking to them, but sometimes they have to be told. My mother did not believe me when I told her I destested coming to visit her because of her behavior and would often make up excuses just so I didn't have to go through all the 'drama' with her. When I was completely honest with her, she finally saw it.

On the other hand, bringing slappy with you - as your new lover - might do the trick too.

Enjoy that turkey! (not slappy, the food on the ..... oh nemind)

Thanks for your input Heeven. I don't know what started this whole thing exactly. Probably a lot of stuff. I'm sure that 9-11 had a small hand in it, as did my brother having kids, as did the fact that they had not been happy with the church they'd been going to for quite some time. Maybe they were just ripe for the picking, and then when they found this new church, it just stoked and fanned the flames of their faith...and it didn't totally happen overnight. First they found this new church. I think my mother and my sister-in-law were the first ones to get "baptised in the holy spirit" as they put it. I think my brother and father were just sort of going with the flow for a while, but they also eventually got baptised as well. I didn't actually see the baptisms, but I guess they actually dunk your ass in a big tub of water. Grown people. I just don't get it.

Anyway, I need to do some stinkin' work now. Thanks again, kid.

It's hard actually to separate emotionally from family, isn't it? They can get under your skin, if nothing else, like nobody else ever will.


I dunno.......I used the pretend ploy with my father, sort of. I never actually said anything which wasn't true, I just never said anything about my life, except stuff like where I was working and really external things like that.

I only introduced a couple of my men to him....ones I knew could appear acceptable to him...the rest never went near him. Ditto with friends. I accidentally let drop one day, when I was 23, that I had sex. Oh my!!!! Such horror!!!

Thing is, he was such an utterly self obsessed creature that he never asked anything, except about things that he wanted to know about so he could boast to friends...you know, like marks at uni and such, so it was much easier to just avoid having him know anything about my life than it would be with a normal human being.

My sense is that your family would actually ask you stuff?

I like the way my parents handled the issue of religion in our family. My dad is a devout Catholic, my mom an atheist at the time. The compromise they came up with was to have us kids attending church every Sunday and catechism classes after school until we had our first communion. After that, we kids got to choose for ourselves what direction we wanted to go in for religion. My mom took us to several Unitarian churches where the folk singing was the most memorable to me.

For me, this first communion ceremony was the last time I set foot in the Catholic church and I soon decided I didn't want religion in my life in any form.


My brother and I stood still without fighting long enough for this photo after our first communion ceremony.

See Kicky, it could be much much worse than a flimsy pamphlet that is easily tossed into the trash. You could have the scars from these photos to deal with the rest of your life.

Well, we talk every week on the phone, and yeah, they (mostly my mother) always ask me stuff. I have already started to keep things from them, like for instance, the last time I quit my job, which was a pretty big thing, I kept it from them until after I got another one. I just didn't want to hear my mother tell me what I should do, and why I shouldn't do it.

Like I said, it's mostly my mother. I have also instituted a policy of NEVER telling them I have a date. Even if I go out with women who are single friends, I don't really like to tell her. It just gets her motherly instincts all up and in a flutter, and the nagging and questioning follows directly.

But the religion stuff is very hard for me to lie about for some reason. I'm not a good liar in the first place. Omitting information I can do, but actually saying something that isn't true, especially to the people who gave birth to me and raised me...that would be a pretty tall order.

Maybe I could tell her that I do believe in god (defining "god" in my head as "the universe", or "the thing that makes the world do it's thing on a daily basis, whatever that may be") in a certain sense, but I just don't believe in organized religion. That's not really a lie, is it?

But my worry is that if I ever told them I believed in god, they would go into the next phase of "Operation Rescue Kicky" and I'd have to then hear all about their church and all the wonderful people in it, and how I should really go with them when I'm home and I'd have them all talking to me about jesus and god all the time...that doesn't sound too promising to me.

Ha! How cute you are!

Trust me though, I have scars. Did I ever tell you guys about my teen years, when I used to read the bible every night, and had decided that I was not going to have sex until I was married? I didn't wake up from that stupidity until I was in my third year of COLLEGE! And that was when they were just moderately religious!