I am an extreme liberal

Thanks Cyclo and Thomas for correcting Okie's patently a bad-faith conclusion that the Great Society was a failure because we still have poverty. What about an examination of those lives that were advanced and even saved? Why do conservatives think that all that is accomplished by welfare assistance is the "rewarding of irresponsibility." If you ask me the truly irresponsible are the heirs of the superwealthy who do nothing constructive with their advantages--Paris Hilton may serve as its poster child.

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Oh comon, you have to admit that "The Simple Life" was quite funny at times. She certainly didn't need the money, and made Nicole look like a complete fool (not hard).

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Agreed, JL. The poor are blamed for the sin of their poverty. This absolves the rich from all responsibility of doing anything to alleviate the needs of those struggling with poverty. These are the same people who are then appalled when the poverty-stricken in third world countries elect Marxists to run the government.

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Wait. Isn't that what just happened here?

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JL, sometimes I wish you'd just write my posts.

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JLNobody wrote:

Thanks Cyclo and Thomas for correcting Okie's patently a bad-faith conclusion that the Great Society was a failure because we still have poverty. What about an examination of those lives that were advanced and even saved? Why do conservatives think that all that is accomplished by welfare assistance is the "rewarding of irresponsibility." If you ask me the truly irresponsible are the heirs of the superwealthy who do nothing constructive with their advantages--Paris Hilton may serve as its poster child.

Actually, I think you need to go back and read more carefully the posts, especially that of Thomas, as I think that although he concedes that the Great Society may have had some minimal positive effects, if I read it correctly, he agrees with me that the initiative did in fact show an overall negative effect on reducing poverty by slowing the progress that was being made at the time.

I have heard not only conservatives, but black conservatives point out the obvious fact that intact 2 parent families have declined significantly, especially in inner city and black neighborhoods, thus increasing the amount of poverty for families and children. This has created a domino effect with increased school dropouts, inadequate education, and job preparatory skills. The cause for this can be argued, but certainly the tax policies and welfare policies of the government bears much culpability in this. LBJ's Great Society enabled single women to realize that husbands were not needed to gain benefits, and the more children, the more benefits, thus creating the domino effect. Children raised in such conditions do not have the support needed to succeed at higher rates.

Interestingly, this subject is not widely reported in the news, nor is it easily found and ballyhooed on the web in my opinion. You can bet that if this information fit into the liberal cause, we would be bombarded with this information daily, blaming conservatives for the problem. Of course, liberal policy is to blame on many fronts, morally and government policy wise. Instead of calling for more moral responsibility and family values, liberals continue to preach the solutions are condoms, abortion, and more government assistance.

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Report from Detroit: Lots of working professional black females with bad attitudes (you might call them bitchy). No working professional black males in sight. It's pretty screwed up. These women all have kids and are doing their damndest to make up for the invisible father.

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JLNobody wrote:

Thanks Cyclo and Thomas for correcting Okie's patently a bad-faith conclusion that the Great Society was a failure because we still have poverty. What about an examination of those lives that were advanced and even saved? Why do conservatives think that all that is accomplished by welfare assistance is the "rewarding of irresponsibility." If you ask me the truly irresponsible are the heirs of the superwealthy who do nothing constructive with their advantages--Paris Hilton may serve as its poster child.

JL, I think you mistook Thomas' meaning in his rather cleverly written post. He was suggesting that, though one could argue the Great Society programs were effecive in reducing poverty, the argument would be very weak and unpersuasive. Poverty in the U.S. was decreasing rapidly in the years just BEFORE the GS program was enacted, but rapidly stabilized (= stopped decreasing) soon AFTER it was enacted.

There are examples to be found of people who are poor despite their best efforts to escape it a, and as well of others who merely used welfare programs to escape work. Similarly there are the rich who live wasted lives and others who are very productive. Most generalizations are inherently misleading. The real question for government programs is, what, on average, are their marginal direct effects, and what side effects to they also produce? The Welfare Reform enacted a decade ago substantially reduced government expenditures and yield no detectable increase in poverty - on average. There are other social welfare programs that do work well, however, one should always beware of the aside effects of such government programs - the chislers are usually much smarter, more energetic, and better motivated than the bureaucrats.

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To follow up on this, the following link shows the percentage of children living in single parent homes has more than tripled since 1960, with the rate in 2004 being about 32%. Worse yet for minorities, such as the black population, the percentage of black children living in single parent homes is about 65% according to the link posted. Conservative blacks, such as Ward Connerly, are screaming this at the top of their lungs trying to point out the obvious problem that needs to be addressed instead of more government programs, but of course the main stream media and liberals continue to ignore it.

http://www2.duq.edu/familyinstitute/templates/features/csmf/fig4.3.html

http://www.childstats.gov/amchildren05/index.asp

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3626/is_200410/ai_n13506797

So has government enabled more irresponsibility by rewarding it? I think so.

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Re: I am an extreme liberal

dyslexia wrote:

Liberalism is an ideology, philosophical view, and political tradition which holds that liberty is the primary political value.[1] Liberalism has its roots in the Western Age of Enlightenment, but the term now encompasses a diversity of political thought.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, especially of government and religion, the rule of law, free public education, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports relatively free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed.[3]
Which is the extreme opposit of conservatism in american politics.

Lets see here, to rephrase dyslexia, conservatives are dead set opposed to individual rights, freedom of thought, limitations on power, the rule of law, free public education, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy, transparent government in which citizens rights are protected, open and fair elections, equal rights and equal opportunity. Typical of dyslexia, he makes an unsupported statement that is obviously flawed and then disappears from any debate, except for an occasional derogatory remark from time to time, but seldom addressing the evidence.

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Re: I am an extreme liberal

okie wrote:

dyslexia wrote:
Liberalism is an ideology, philosophical view, and political tradition which holds that liberty is the primary political value.[1] Liberalism has its roots in the Western Age of Enlightenment, but the term now encompasses a diversity of political thought.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, especially of government and religion, the rule of law, free public education, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports relatively free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed.[3]
Which is the extreme opposit of conservatism in american politics.

Lets see here, to rephrase dyslexia, conservatives are dead set opposed to individual rights, freedom of thought, limitations on power, the rule of law, free public education, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy, transparent government in which citizens rights are protected, open and fair elections, equal rights and equal opportunity. Typical of dyslexia, he makes an unsupported statement that is obviously flawed and then disappears from any debate, except for an occasional derogatory remark from time to time, but seldom addressing the evidence.

Interesting response, a bit on the trite and juvenile but interesting.

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Dyslexia, you are so predictable. What did I say everyone? I predicted Dys would not address the evidence, but would throw out a derogatory remark. Now he calls my post "trite and juvenile." But at least he thinks it is interesting.

Dyslexia, did you even read the information about children living in single parent homes now, compared to 1960, before LBJ's Great Society?

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okie wrote:

Dyslexia, you are so predictable. What did I say everyone? I predicted Dys would not address the evidence, but would throw out a derogatory remark. Now he calls my post "trite and juvenile." But at least he thinks it is interesting.

Dyslexia, did you even read the information about children living in single parent homes now, compared to 1960, before LBJ's Great Society?

I've never mentioned LBJ nor his great society. I've never voted for LBJ although what he did for civil rights moved our nation forward a great deal. Okie, you remain trite and juvenile.

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spoken by a certified pooopityhead...

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Dyslexia, a question for you. Would a conversion from the current system to government controlled health care, as proposed by liberals, limit the scope and control of government more than conservatives would advocate in regard to this issue? Yes or No?

Give it a try and see if you can answer the question correctly. If you don't know, maybe guess and you have at least a 50% chance of getting it right.

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cjhsa wrote:

I schooled in Boston. They don't even speak English. Lib-twits. I deprogrammed. Tell the good folks in Roxbury about how great the education system is.

Or talk to your "senators". The two biggest dicks in elected office.

LEarned nothing about prejudice, did you?

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cjhsa wrote:

Not in this thread, no. Very little thought required.

Bye-bye!

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Re: I am an extreme liberal

okie wrote:

If you wish to debate limited government being a conservative or liberal idea, simply recall one of your favorite politicians, Barry Goldwater, when he ran against LBJ.
Quote:

If you wish to debate, it is time to leave the thread. Poor Johnny one note, sang out with gusto . . .

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Merry Andrew wrote:

Agreed, JL. The poor are blamed for the sin of their poverty. This absolves the rich from all responsibility of doing anything to alleviate the needs of those struggling with poverty. These are the same people who are then appalled when the poverty-stricken in third world countries elect Marxists to run the government.

Hear! Hear!

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okie wrote:

I have heard not only conservatives, but black conservatives
Quote:

Do they carry more weight because they are black? The divorce rate is highest among whites in the Bible Belt. Are blacks expert in the marriage foibles of Bible BEaters?

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I am an extreme liberal

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