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I am an extreme liberal

 
 
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:01 pm
Liberalism is an ideology, philosophical view, and political tradition which holds that liberty is the primary political value.[1] Liberalism has its roots in the Western Age of Enlightenment, but the term now encompasses a diversity of political thought.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, especially of government and religion, the rule of law, free public education, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports relatively free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed.[3]
Which is the extreme opposit of conservatism in american politics.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 9,902 • Replies: 300
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cjhsa
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:11 pm
If liberalism emphasizes individual rights, then why do extreme liberals want to deny us the right guaranteed by the second amendment to the Constitution to keep and bear arms?
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Thomas
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:17 pm
Dys -- I find nothing about "hating America" in your definitions. Obviously your sources want the terrorists to win.
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Letty
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:27 pm
Just reading for now.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:35 pm
bm
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:35 pm
It's not the ends, Dys. It's the means.

liberalism as an end is nice. It has many idealized ambitions that sound good on paper, but the means to those ends are unrealistic.

Broadly speaking, conservatism emphasizes the exact same points you made in your definition. It's the means by which those ends are met that differ.

Liberalism wants someone else to acheive those goals for you, while conservatism wants you to achieve them yourself.

If you can find any evidence that what you posted is the extreme opposite of conservatism, I'd be interested in seeing it.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:37 pm
Bush is the extreme opposite of conservatism. He'll be remembered as King George.
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talk72000
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:48 pm
McG. W doesn't fit your definition of a do-it-yourself Conservative. If he a Conservative he would have fought in the Vietnam War and sent his daughters to Iraq!
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:53 pm
talk72000 wrote:
McG. W doesn't fit your definition of a do-it-yourself Conservative. If he a Conservative he would have fought in the Vietnam War and sent his daughters to Iraq!


And I would point out that there is not a single liberal that would fit Dys' definition above, so?

We are talking about ideas, not people.
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aidan
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 02:55 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
Liberalism wants someone else to acheive those goals for you, while conservatism wants you to achieve them yourself
.

I agree that conservatives and liberals disagree on the means to most ends. I'm not sure that I agree that liberals and conservatives are interested in the same ends - in fact- now that I really think about it, I believe that they often don't want the same ends at all.

In a broader context they might both profess to want liberty, health and happiness for all citizens, but very often liberals and conservatives disagree on what exactly constitutes liberty, health, and happiness, so their ends are often perceived as, and are in fact, different.

And I definitely disagree that liberals want someone else to achieve those goals for them while conservatives are any more self-reliant or self-actualizing.

I think the difference lies in the fact that people who are liberal (which also means generous, by the way) are concerned that whatever opportunity at self-actualization is available to them, is also available to all or most other citizens. They tend to recognize that not everyone starts with the same advantages, and so understand that more governmental support is sometimes necessary.
Conservatives, on the other hand, seem to believe that if they've been able to get theirs, (tax breaks, good schools, health insurance) that's where the responsibility of government should end, as if every other citizen has had the same opportunity, just by being born in America.
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JTT
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 03:03 pm
McGentrix wrote:
talk72000 wrote:
McG. W doesn't fit your definition of a do-it-yourself Conservative. If he a Conservative he would have fought in the Vietnam War and sent his daughters to Iraq!


And I would point out that there is not a single liberal that would fit Dys' definition above, so?

We are talking about ideas, not people.


But let's do dwell on the man who epitomizes those principles that you hold dear, McG. It seems that George has been bailed out of everything he's screwed up his whole life.

Do address the inconsistencies in your thinking.
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 03:08 pm
Sorry Dys and Aidan, but the trolls can't keep to themselves and I'll not be drawn into their little worlds. Perhaps if you asked them, they might actually stick to the subject of a thread.

This is an interesting concept to discuss and I would like to continue, but I don't feel like wading through the same garbage here that pollutes every other thread.
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plainoldme
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 03:58 pm
Replying to continue with this thread.
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plainoldme
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 03:59 pm
cjhsa wrote:
If liberalism emphasizes individual rights, then why do extreme liberals want to deny us the right guaranteed by the second amendment to the Constitution to keep and bear arms?


You have shown yourself to be a violent person.

Besides, when two rights are in conflict, then one is not a right.
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plainoldme
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 04:00 pm
McGentrix wrote:

Liberalism wants someone else to acheive those goals for you, while conservatism wants you to achieve them yourself.

Quote:



AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
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plainoldme
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 04:02 pm
aidan wrote:

Conservatives, on the other hand, seem to believe that if they've been able to get theirs, (tax breaks, good schools, health insurance) that's where the responsibility of government should end, as if every other citizen has had the same opportunity, just by being born in America.


American Conservatism is an offshoot of Calvinism.
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Diane
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 04:14 pm
Actually, McG, there are some liberals who want someone to do it for them. They, for the most part, are 'limosine liberals' who often say, "I went to Selma in the 60's and helped register voters." I applaud their actions, but all too often, they came home to their extremely comfortable lifestyle with the attitude that they did their part without understanding that it is a life-long process.

Most of the liberals I know, however, have worked all their lives for their ideals, helping them thrive and grow. It isn't just ideals although that is a major part of liberalism thank heaven, it is about the work it takes to maintain those ideals. Liberals are among the hardest working people I know, even putting their lives on the line when necessary.
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aidan
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 04:18 pm
Plainoldme wrote:
Quote:
American Conservatism is an offshoot of Calvinism.


A religious philosophy that I'm not saying I don't see some merits in. I consider myself to be what most people call liberal, but I believe in hard work and personal responsibility, and I admire people who are able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and achieve, and don't see the need for a lot of excess bells and whistles when simplicity will suffice.
I just also happen to believe that it is important to recognize the truth of the matter that not everyone begins from the same starting point, and in the long run, it's harmful to our society to refuse to address that fact and build supports into our governmental programs to help ammend those discrepancies.
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Thomas
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 04:25 pm
Diane wrote:
They, for the most part, are 'limosine liberals' who often say, "I went to Selma in the 60's and helped register voters."

I met a liberal in London last year who did that in Mississippi. Terrible guy, I tell ya. Drives a Porsche of course.
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 04:43 pm
Thomas wrote:
Diane wrote:
They, for the most part, are 'limosine liberals' who often say, "I went to Selma in the 60's and helped register voters."

I met a liberal in London last year who did that in Mississippi. Terrible guy, I tell ya. Drives a Porsche of course.

rofl, and its red.
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