Advocate wrote:Regarding Israel recognizing the Pals, it is hard to negotiate with those who deny you have the right to exist. This has never changed, and the present leader just reaffirmed this. But Israelis are supposed to kiss their enemies.
Let me ask you, Advocate: does every Palestinian deny that Israel has the right to exist, or is it just some of them?
Cycloptichorn
Kiss your enemies is more productive than over-killing suspected enemies like the last war against Lebanon.
CI, I am sorry. I meant to refer to Cyclo (C).
I find that Blue and Cyclo are dishonest in their arguments. They carefully omit key facts in their condemnations of Israel. This seems to say that they are antisemitic.
Advocate wrote:CI, I am sorry. I meant to refer to Cyclo (C).
I find that Blue and Cyclo are dishonest in their arguments. They carefully omit key facts in their condemnations of Israel. This seems to say that they are antisemitic.
All I would ask is for you to point out which key facts I have overlooked. Something that you seem to be unable or unwilling to do so. Should I call you anti-reality?
Every time you use the word antisemitic incorrectly, you weaken its meaning. You really should think about the consequences of your actions.
Cycloptichorn
If Obama were to be elected to the presidency, would he be called "The AFrican-American President"?
Why is this guys name even being mentioned as a viable candidate? He is believing too much of his own press.
Advocate, I've noticed that since you're original posting of anti-semitic accusations that you post nothing but spin and soundbites with a bit of historical distortions and lame attacks on messengers. You haven't posted any documentation of any kind. Nothing with names, dates or places or examples of historical events that shaped the present situation. And no comments on documentation posted by others other than sound bites about the "source". You really dont seem to have much to offer other than name calling. How bout the Rabin story and the Rabbis that demnded his assassination in the name of doing God's will? How bout the diversion of the Jordon River by the Israelis and confiscation of the last drops of clean water walled off for themselves? Or the press conference called by Rabbi Froman where members of the Palestinian government were to announce their desire for a 2 state solution using 1967 borders? The press conference the Israelis squashed prior to their escalation of atrocities. You let all that slide never addressing substance but simply saying stuff like "This seems to say that they are antisemitic." You seem to be allergic to substance and addicted to political spin and soundbites. I think I'll stand by my "sources" and teachers and take Swift Boating with a grain of salt.
http://www.jerusalempeacemakers.org/
LSM, You are probably uninformed about Obama. When he spoke at the dem convention, that was only his first exposure to the American public. Since then, he's had much more exposure, and most Americans that hear him are beginning to support him and his causes; unity in America. Something drastically lacking in the Bush administration.
Blue, I'll mention just one of your gross distortions. You refer to Hezbollah retaliation for Israel's border violations. What crap! You consciously omit the fact that Hez had rocketed and otherwise attacked Israel for about 10 years prior to the killing and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers.
This was too much for Israel (or any other self-respecting nation), leading to its strong retaliation against Hez and the nation that shelters and supports it.
That was 'strong retaliation?'
Hezbollah appears to in fact be stronger now, than prior to Israel's actions. Great job
Cycloptichorn
Cyclo, do you have anything supporting that? I know Hez had a stupid victory celebration, but I read that the people are pretty ticked that it brought down such misery on the country. I would think that the people in Lebanon would turn on Hez.
I hope Israel's next attack is even more massive.
"Hez had rocketed and otherwise attacked Israel". Shebba Farms is part of Israel? That issue is often used to justify Israel's atrocities. In truth it was Israel's occupation of Lebanon that led to the formation of the Hezbollah resistence which has greatly enhanced it's pull and strength since Israel's most recent ill fated atrocity in Lebanon. All of which has nothing to do with Israel's ongoing atrocities in Gaza.
Does anyone mind returning to the subject of this thread, which is what the Democrats should do now that they've seized the House and have a slight edge in the Senate?
I know Advocate would like to froth at the mouth and call anyone who criticizes Israel an antisemite, and Blue would like to allege a Jewish conspiracy to guide American foreign policy . . . but . . .
NONE OF THAT HAS A GODDAMNED THING TO DO WITH WHAT THE DEMOCRATS OUGHT TO DO WITH THEIR APPARENT MANDATE.
Set, I think the "mandate" is pretty clear; do something constructive about Iraq. Most Americans are tired of the hipocrisy of our government; their crimes(Abramoff), their Foley's, their self-enrichment, their illegal wiretaps, their torture of prisoners, our health care, our national debt, the middle class loss of purchasing power, illegal immigration, and the general incompetence and corruption of this administration.
They have so much on their plate, it's a matter of which ones first? Not what.
Setanta wants a return to the topic even though what we're discussing has much to do with the issues that drove the election. But before he returns us to the topic Setanta takes the liberty to spread soundbites that have no basis in fact. I dont allege a Jewish conspiracy to guide American foreign policy at all. I do allege a PNAC conspiracy to guide American foreign policy and that is evident in the PNACers in the administration running this war. Yes some PNACers are Jewish but that dont make it a Jewish conspiracy. Just a PNAC imperialist blueprint for world domination as written in their own words. Basically with about 6 out of10 Americans saying they believe Bushie deliberately misled us into war I think the conspiracy is more or less fully exposed and that's what drove the election. America is on to the conspiracy in a big way these days. 70 million Americans are calling for new investigations of 911. The new Pearl Harbor the PNACers wrote they could really use to lie us into war in Iraq.
To be honest,I dont see how the dems can do much of anything now.
Bush still has the power of the veto,and I think he will use it.
The dems cant raise taxes,because they know that would be political suicide.
I dont see how the dems can accomplish most of the things they claimed to want.
Either way,I'm gonna buy some popcorn and an "E-ticket",and sit back and watch.
Its gonna be fun to watch.
mysteryman, the Dems can do many things which dont mean they'll do anything. They could use the Bully Pulpit the election gave them to bring pressure to bring our troops home. Murtha used it and he connected with a bunch of voters really driving the election. The Dems also could head Bushie off at the pass on escalating his war which really is his only chance of diverting attention away from his failures in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I doubt very much Bush can divert attention away from Iraq, no matter what Bush says or does.
Yes, the Democratic political victory has to do with Iraq.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL.
Stop derailing the thread with idiotic references to a situation which was not a focus of the mid-term elections.
As a matter of fact, it is my belief that the American Public is going to watch how Bush handles the Iraq situation after declaring his cooperation with the Baker commission and the dems.
