"Q...U...A...G..."

McG - what are you talking about? You realize we have a topic to discuss? Why not try that?

I don't think there is a quagmire.

I think what Rumsfeld has on his hands is called "morass" (than brains).

It's obvious the big guy, McGintrix, is intent only on taunting and not the topic of the thread. I won't post again until he or some other conservative ventures forth with something at least partially worthy.

Am I agist or something or does anyone else think McG is (literally) somewhere in his/her teens?

I would be one opinionated teenager. My kids might think I had problems.

You might need some adult company, McG!

I would like nothing more than to sit and have tea with you Tartarin as you seem to have lead an interesting life and I am sure you have many wonderful stories to share. I think Frank would also make for good company.

I am however 33, married, 2 kids, employed and heck, I just bought a new canoe tonight!

So, There you go.

Doesn't take away from the fact, McG, that you rarely address the topic of a thread. A canoe? How exciting! And history books? And a wee bit more on the facts?

Exact age sometimes doesn't matter, when what comes across is excruciatingly young.

Tea with tart? More likely that glass of wine. And if you can find a Portugese vinho verde wine, Tart, please try.

Sheesh what a memory, Mamaj!

Tea sounds good, though, McG. I'll banish the cat if you'll furl the flag!

Please address the topic of the thread. Whether another member is childish is just intended to provoke.

There was an interesting, sad, disturbing front page story in the 6/21 NYTimes about attempts to address post-traumatic stress in the military more effectively (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/21/international/worldspecial/21ARMY.html?pagewanted=1). It describes symptoms and treatments of the psychoses war produces. The point of the article is that the Pentagon is taking steps to address this problem in the wake of battle, not years later.

But what I took from the article was something quite different -- the quagmire that war creates, demonstrated by its after-effects in the soldier, in the invaded country, and in the society which causes war. There is indeed a quagmire in Iraq -- the American presence is daily described as distant, stand-offish, and seriously ineffectual. There is a deepening quagmire in the US and abroad because of the real doubts about the validity of the reasons for the invasion.

It seems to me that the effect of war on those who are directly involved is a sign -- which we tend to brush past, albeit sympathetically -- of the complete madness of using military action as a tool of policy rather than immediate and clear self-defense. The madness turns up, like leaking pustules, in the kids we send to do the dirty work and also in the society which sends them.

The link for the above, again... http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/21/international/worldspecial/21ARMY.html

Those who listen to "This American Life" weekly on NPR have probably already heard the extraordinary on-the-street reporting from Iraq in the 6/20 show. Those who haven't really should listen to the sounds of quagmire -- available later this week on audio at thisamericanlife.com.

ATTENTION:
THE FOLLOWING RESPONSE ADDRESSES THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD

Is it a quagmire?

I dunno, it is a matter of persepective, I don't think we are there yet.

The incidences of violent acts in Iraq have not reached the proportions of the crime in major American Cities, do we have quagmires here?

I personally think that Social Security is a far greater quagmire than Iraq, by my understanding of the word.

As to the jingoistic references, to gleefully invoke the memory of Viet Nam with the natural inference of quagmire is quite telling.

Maybe you need more dairy in your diet, PDid.

OK, Maybe that last part WASN'T on topic, sorry.!

http://www.msnbc.com/news/931304.asp?0cm=c10

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THAT CROW SERVED, PDid?

max:

You're embarrassing yourself and you're making a mockery of the lives of the American and British soldiers and the thousands of Iraqi civilians by posting this on multiple threads.

First of all, you didn't read your link.

Castor beans and piles of documents are proof of nothing (as the link says).

That's not what we invaded over.

Can't you acknowledge that Bush has deceived you?

Hey, PDiddie: "We're waist deep in the big muddy and the big fool says to push on"

max<

No need to thaw out the crow and fire-up the stove as yet.

James Miklaszewski, who contributed to the www.msnbc.com link you provided, admits right at the top that this report of newly discovered materials are not the "smoking gun" that coalition forces have searched for two months to find.

Instead, he writes, they are the strongest evidence found so far. This means, I am afraid, that the jury is still out on Iraq's WMDs.

Thanks so much for the link.

"q...W...a...g..."