AXIS of Evil.

McGentrix wrote:

I am sure that the evil in the world no doubt see the freedom's that the US supports as a form of evil.....

This is the tripe that has continually been peddled by the American right....that "they hate us for our freedoms". Limiting the argument to a one dimensional discussion is self-serving but only breeds further ignorance.
Be honest with yourself McG....is it really the freedom that they hate, or is it something else.

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McGentrix wrote:

I am not the least bit surprised to see someone on A2K try to see their point of view.

I guess I still fee that there is something to be gained by understanding the perspectives of others rather than creating my own rationale for their behavior.
Again, is it the freedoms of the US that they hate, or is it something else?

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candidone1 wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
I am not the least bit surprised to see someone on A2K try to see their point of view.

I guess I still fee that there is something to be gained by understanding the perspectives of others rather than creating my own rationale for their behavior.
Again, is it the freedoms of the US that they hate, or is it something else?

maybe they hate us because for 6 years people run around saying "freedoms" when "freedom" will suffice.

in other words, you either have freedom or you don't. Laughing

sorry... that phrase has been buggin' the hell out me for years.....

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I guess you're right....freedom is not a partial offering. Freedom entails a multitude of "freedoms ".
Any restrictions on one freedom negates the wholesale concept of freedom in the broader sense.

I guess even in Canada and the US, we are not free....

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candidone1 wrote:

I guess you're right....freedom is not a partial offering. Freedom entails a multitude of "freedoms ".
Any restrictions on one freedom negates the wholesale concept of freedom in the broader sense.

yep. that's what i was gettin' at. the reaction to 911 has taken more from our rights as free citizens than the act itself.

btw, i wasn't bagging on you re; the "freedoms" thing. i saw that you were using it as it is commonly being quoted.

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au1929 wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Brandon
I believe that evil exists in people. Take Bush for instance.

Alright, I agree with you, although not about Bush. And, if, as you now admit, evil exists, it is important for a national leader to point it out and lay plans against it, in cases where it looks like it might manifest itself in a dangerous way.

Whether evil exists or does not. Bush's axis of evil statement was as meaningless as the blowhard that made it. Further, it bought us nothing in the war on terror and in fact hardened our adversaries position.

So, basically you're saying that a national leader should politely refrain from discussing great evil in the world, even in cases where it may manifest itself dangerously in the future, so as to avoid hurting anyone's feelings. That sounds like a pretty skewed and typically liberal view of the world.

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candidone1 wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

It becomes apparent that the problem is that liberals don't believe in the existence of evil.....and in particular shows why they ought not to be in the position of running the country.

I have misstated nothing, unless your intended message differed from what you in fact said.

Seems to me that you advocate the notion that the belief in, or application of, the term "evil" is germane to one's ability to run the country.

Germane, sure. I said that, of course, but you said:

candidone1 wrote:

Absolutely Brandon. The true measure of an administration is in their ability or willingness to apply to things, people and nations, the term "evil".

I never said that, nor do I believe it. I only said that admitting that evil exists and is relevant is one requirement for a world leader, nothing like what you have quoted me as asserting, so how is that not a misstatement of my opinion? This is akin to me saying that a world leader shouldn't be a bank robber, and you the quoting me as saying that the true measure of a leader is his repudiation of bank robbing. You've lied twice. First you misquoted me, so as to have an easier proposition to argue against, and then you claimed you hadn't.

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The Texan weilding the brand seared said nations in an attempt to make word associations with the Axis powers of WWII.
It was a clear move away from anything that even resembled diplomacy in an attempt to ignite his base in the post 9/11 fervor.

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Brandon

Discussion? Since when is bumper sticker slogan a discussion? I guess with Bush's limited volcabulary it is.

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candidone1 wrote:

...The hypocrisy in the acceptable use of the term "evil" against Ahmadinejad, Hussein or Jong-Il and the unacceptable use of it against Bush/the conservative aganda in the ME speaks volumes for your inability to fairly apply the term....

When did I ever say that the concept of evil was inappropriate for describing President Bush or the conservative agenda? I don't think that Bush and most of the typical conservative platform happen to be evil, but I certainly never said that the terms should not be applied by someone who does. The concept of evil is uselful and relevant, and everyone is entitled to decide for himself what is good and what is evil. So now it's hypocritical of me to think that some entities are evil and others are good? Explain the logic of that to me.

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au1929 wrote:

Brandon

Discussion? Since when is bumper sticker slogan a discussion? I guess with Bush's limited volcabulary it is.

Don't try to escape from your losing position by changing the subject. Argue the actual point under discussion, if you dare.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

au1929 wrote:
Brandon

Discussion? Since when is bumper sticker slogan a discussion? I guess with Bush's limited volcabulary it is.

Don't try to escape from your losing position by changing the subject. Argue the actual point under discussion, if you dare.

The point is there was nothing to gain from the Axis of evil srtatement. And in fact it was a diplomatic blunder that could only inflame and harden the positions of those nations.

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I become rather uncomfortable when Bush takes up the name calling or the descriptions of just what this trio has in mind for Americans.

Bush has made a judgment call, saying the leaders of these countries are "evil." Judgment calls are seldom ever a good idea. Definitely not how winners, win.

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candidone1 wrote:

Seems to me that you advocate the notion that the belief in, or application of, the term "evil" is germane to one's ability to run the country.

candidone1 wrote:

The true measure of an administration is in their ability or willingness to apply to things, people and nations, the term "evil".

You are sorely splitting hairs and arguing, quite incorrectly, that I have siad two different things here Brandon.
What is clear is that you believe that the use and application of the term "evil" is a credential that is a necessary one if an individual hopes to run the country.
I think that the term can be used and can be used appropriately, but it is neither germane nor an essential club to carry onto the first teebox. It surely has no place in the president's vernacular, nor does it have a place in discussing foreign relations.

I think the public branding of the alleged "axis of evil" was simply another inflaming chest pounding exercise on how not to acheive diplomatic objectives.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

candidone1 wrote:
...The hypocrisy in the acceptable use of the term "evil" against Ahmadinejad, Hussein or Jong-Il and the unacceptable use of it against Bush/the conservative aganda in the ME speaks volumes for your inability to fairly apply the term....

When did I ever say that the concept of evil was inappropriate for describing President Bush or the conservative agenda?

I never said you did.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

candidone1 wrote:
...The hypocrisy in the acceptable use of the term "evil" against Ahmadinejad, Hussein or Jong-Il and the unacceptable use of it against Bush/the conservative aganda in the ME speaks volumes for your inability to fairly apply the term....

When did I ever say that the concept of evil was inappropriate for describing President Bush or the conservative agenda? I don't think that Bush and most of the typical conservative platform happen to be evil, but I certainly never said that the terms should not be applied by someone who does. The concept of evil is uselful and relevant, and everyone is entitled to decide for himself what is good and what is evil. So now it's hypocritical of me to think that some entities are evil and others are good? Explain the logic of that to me.

Is Myanmar good or evil? Is Ethiopia good or evil? Is South Africa good or evil? Is France good or evil?

Was J Edgar Hoover good or evil? Richard Nixon? Bill clinton? Joe McCarthy? George III?

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blatham wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
...The hypocrisy in the acceptable use of the term "evil" against Ahmadinejad, Hussein or Jong-Il and the unacceptable use of it against Bush/the conservative aganda in the ME speaks volumes for your inability to fairly apply the term....

When did I ever say that the concept of evil was inappropriate for describing President Bush or the conservative agenda? I don't think that Bush and most of the typical conservative platform happen to be evil, but I certainly never said that the terms should not be applied by someone who does. The concept of evil is uselful and relevant, and everyone is entitled to decide for himself what is good and what is evil. So now it's hypocritical of me to think that some entities are evil and others are good? Explain the logic of that to me.

Is Myanmar good or evil? Is Ethiopia good or evil? Is South Africa good or evil? Is France good or evil?

Was J Edgar Hoover good or evil? Richard Nixon? Bill clinton? Joe McCarthy? George III?

Are you asking because you can't tell for yourself? You have no ability to figure out if something is evil or not?

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I think he me be alluding to the subjectivity in the criteria for what constitutes "evil".

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blatham wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
...The hypocrisy in the acceptable use of the term "evil" against Ahmadinejad, Hussein or Jong-Il and the unacceptable use of it against Bush/the conservative aganda in the ME speaks volumes for your inability to fairly apply the term....

When did I ever say that the concept of evil was inappropriate for describing President Bush or the conservative agenda? I don't think that Bush and most of the typical conservative platform happen to be evil, but I certainly never said that the terms should not be applied by someone who does. The concept of evil is uselful and relevant, and everyone is entitled to decide for himself what is good and what is evil. So now it's hypocritical of me to think that some entities are evil and others are good? Explain the logic of that to me.

Is Myanmar good or evil? Is Ethiopia good or evil? Is South Africa good or evil? Is France good or evil?

Was J Edgar Hoover good or evil? Richard Nixon? Bill clinton? Joe McCarthy? George III?

I could give you my opinions, but everyone is entitled to his own. When I say that someone is evil, I don't mean that they have no goodness in them, just that they are predominantly evil.

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au1929 wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Brandon

Discussion? Since when is bumper sticker slogan a discussion? I guess with Bush's limited volcabulary it is.

Don't try to escape from your losing position by changing the subject. Argue the actual point under discussion, if you dare.

The point is there was nothing to gain from the Axis of evil srtatement. And in fact it was a diplomatic blunder that could only inflame and harden the positions of those nations.

So, you favor appeasing evil, not offending it? So, in school, when some bully demanded your lunch money, your primary emphasis was to try not to offend him lest he get really mad? Or the same if he demanded some other poor sap's lunch money? Your emphasis would be to just try not to anger him? Okay, well, I just don't feel that way.

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