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When Does Life Begin?

 
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 10:45 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
real: CI, however, claims his position as one who NEVER tries to apply his own personal moral standard, or view of right and wrong, to ANYONE but himself.


I can prove that I have been donating to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities for many years. It helps those organizations feed the needy and shelter the poor irregardless of race, religion, culture, or any other group description. I have also donated my time to nonprofit organizations that provides services to the elderly and handicapped, and have served on the Santa Clara County Grand Jury for the 2003-2004 year. I know that my effort in these area helps people not only in my community by world-wide. I have also donated to schools in foreign countries, and have letters from the schools acknowledging my donation. These are my "realities."


The difference is you had the choice!


What are you trying to say? That my choices were right or wrong?


What? Read my previous statements and I'm sure you'll understand.

Do pro choicers believe pro lifers should have the choice as to whether any of their tax dollars should be used to help fund abortion?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:11 am
Bartikus wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
real: CI, however, claims his position as one who NEVER tries to apply his own personal moral standard, or view of right and wrong, to ANYONE but himself.


I can prove that I have been donating to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities for many years. It helps those organizations feed the needy and shelter the poor irregardless of race, religion, culture, or any other group description. I have also donated my time to nonprofit organizations that provides services to the elderly and handicapped, and have served on the Santa Clara County Grand Jury for the 2003-2004 year. I know that my effort in these area helps people not only in my community by world-wide. I have also donated to schools in foreign countries, and have letters from the schools acknowledging my donation. These are my "realities."


The difference is you had the choice!


What are you trying to say? That my choices were right or wrong?


What? Read my previous statements and I'm sure you'll understand.

Do pro choicers believe pro lifers should have the choice as to whether any of their tax dollars should be used to help fund abortion?


I don't make that kind of decision; our government does. Next q?
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:17 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
real: CI, however, claims his position as one who NEVER tries to apply his own personal moral standard, or view of right and wrong, to ANYONE but himself.


I can prove that I have been donating to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities for many years. It helps those organizations feed the needy and shelter the poor irregardless of race, religion, culture, or any other group description. I have also donated my time to nonprofit organizations that provides services to the elderly and handicapped, and have served on the Santa Clara County Grand Jury for the 2003-2004 year. I know that my effort in these area helps people not only in my community by world-wide. I have also donated to schools in foreign countries, and have letters from the schools acknowledging my donation. These are my "realities."


The difference is you had the choice!


What are you trying to say? That my choices were right or wrong?


What? Read my previous statements and I'm sure you'll understand.

Do pro choicers believe pro lifers should have the choice as to whether any of their tax dollars should be used to help fund abortion?


I don't make that kind of decision; our government does. Next q?


It's a government of the people...you have a voice...let's hear it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:18 am
Ofcoarse we do, and I vote at every election. Next q?
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:23 am
Notice how pro lifers are told to keep their morals to themselves and called hypocrites while I ask....

"Do pro choicers believe pro lifers should have the choice as to whether any of their tax dollars should be used to help fund abortion?"

I want to hear what they have to say and.........crickets.

Why?
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:26 am
Bartikus wrote:
Notice how pro lifers are told to keep their morals to themselves and called hypocrites while I ask

"Do pro choicers believe pro lifers should have the choice as to whether any of their tax dollars should be used to help fund abortion?"

I want to hear what they have to say and.........crickets.

Why?


Selective hypocrisy. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:30 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ofcoarse we do, and I vote at every election. Next q?


And so shall we.....

just remember that if abortion ever becomes outlawed or severely regulated....we pro lifers don't make that decision. Our government does....
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:50 am
Bartikus wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ofcoarse we do, and I vote at every election. Next q?


And so shall we.....

just remember that if abortion ever becomes outlawed or severely regulated....we pro lifers don't make that decision. Our government does....



True; it's beyond our/my control. All I can do is vote for people I think meets my ideal as a candidate. Even that is no guarantee that my wishes will be met. It's called "reality."
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 12:02 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ofcoarse we do, and I vote at every election. Next q?


And so shall we.....

just remember that if abortion ever becomes outlawed or severely regulated....we pro lifers don't make that decision. Our government does....



True; it's beyond our/my control. All I can do is vote for people I think meets my ideal as a candidate. Even that is no guarantee that my wishes will be met. It's called "reality."


so true.

Many on both sides say one thing then do another....only 2 parties even have a fighting chance....many other candidates(sometimes better) are never even heard about....bla bla bla.

back to the topic.

So I take it you are cool with pro lifers having a voice just as you do? lol

maybe 'cool' is too big a leap...lol

Are not the morals of the pro choice movement being enforced against the morals of pro lifers the way the things stand now?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 12:43 pm
That's the bottom line; as citizens we try to influence legislation based on our personal morals and ideas about what constitutes our beliefs.

As participants in a democracy the only power we have is to advocate for our beliefs through our actions and votes. It's up to our government to legislate laws and enforce them. They are not always successful in meeting their obligations to the citizens.

On a personal basis, we contribute our time and money to causes we feel may make a difference in people's lives.

My wife has always made donations to many charitable organizations, whereas, I have limited mine to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities. During my many travels in foreign countries, I take school supplies when I know our itinerary includes visiting schools. I have also given money to schools in Africa and Fiji. We are not rich but comfortable, and it allows me to travel to any part of this world 7 or 8 times/year.

I know what I can control and what I cannot control. I'll leave the issue of abortions to our government, the woman, and her doctor. What any woman chooses to do is none of my concern or business; I do not agonize what her final choice is; she's a complete stranger, so why should I want to impose my morals on her? In some cultures, women kill their girl babies; I have no control over their morals, and I'll never even try to influence their choice. It's just a reality I live with. There isn't much I can do about our soldiers getting killed in Iraq; that choice is made by our government irregardless of how I feel or believe in this war. My morals has no influence, but I can opine about this war as much as I please. It's called the "reality" of our life.

We all have our belief in what is right or wrong; I just don't base mine on any religion.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 03:54 pm
neologist wrote:
Should we respond to chumly's re post?


NYAAH!
Weener!
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 04:28 pm
Interesting article.

from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21018502/

Quote:
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 07:55 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'll leave the issue of abortions to our government, the woman, and her doctor.


I guess that means we won't be hearing from you anymore on this thread.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 08:08 am
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'll leave the issue of abortions to our government, the woman, and her doctor.


I guess that means we won't be hearing from you anymore on this thread.


Laughing
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 08:25 am
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'll leave the issue of abortions to our government, the woman, and her doctor.


I guess that means we won't be hearing from you anymore on this thread.


It doesn't matter if doesn't speak if it falls on def ears. Quite frankly, the way you practice listening is an insult to those who really are def: You can listen, but choose not to.

I disagree with CI. I think the government has the licence to regulate abortions, but not to outlaw them. Leave it to the woman and her doctor.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 08:29 am
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'll leave the issue of abortions to our government, the woman, and her doctor.


I guess that means we won't be hearing from you anymore on this thread.


When hypocrisy is afoot...he'll be there.
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:17 am
Diest TKO wrote:
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'll leave the issue of abortions to our government, the woman, and her doctor.


I guess that means we won't be hearing from you anymore on this thread.


It doesn't matter if doesn't speak if it falls on def ears. Quite frankly, the way you practice listening is an insult to those who really are def: You can listen, but choose not to.

I disagree with CI. I think the government has the licence to regulate abortions, but not to outlaw them. Leave it to the woman and her doctor.

T
K
O

the practice of medicne is not only to prevent death but to improve life.


Why not tell that to the abortionist and point out his hypocrisy for once. Or will it just fall on his deaf ears? Let's see if your listening skills are any better....

If you seen me with a sign stating "The practice of medicine is not only to prevent death but to improve life." in front of a planned parenthood building.....what would you think or say?

Another way to address this is to ask...

1.) Under what circumstances does the abortionist prevent death?

2.) In what ways does an abortionist improve life?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:53 am
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'll leave the issue of abortions to our government, the woman, and her doctor.


I guess that means we won't be hearing from you anymore on this thread.


It doesn't matter if doesn't speak if it falls on def ears. Quite frankly, the way you practice listening is an insult to those who really are def: You can listen, but choose not to.

I disagree with CI. I think the government has the licence to regulate abortions, but not to outlaw them. Leave it to the woman and her doctor.

T
K
O

the practice of medicne is not only to prevent death but to improve life.


Why not tell that to the abortionist and point out his hypocrisy for once. Or will it just fall on his deaf ears? Let's see if your listening skills are any better....

If you seen me with a sign stating "The practice of medicine is not only to prevent death but to improve life." in front of a planned parenthood building.....what would you think or say?


Bartikus, You and your pro-lifers are the ones who should be telling all abortionists your reasons why they are breaking your moral laws since you are the one who apposes it. Pro-choice is self-explanatory; the woman chooses; no need for us to interfere in their choice.
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:56 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'll leave the issue of abortions to our government, the woman, and her doctor.


I guess that means we won't be hearing from you anymore on this thread.


It doesn't matter if doesn't speak if it falls on def ears. Quite frankly, the way you practice listening is an insult to those who really are def: You can listen, but choose not to.

I disagree with CI. I think the government has the licence to regulate abortions, but not to outlaw them. Leave it to the woman and her doctor.

T
K
O

the practice of medicne is not only to prevent death but to improve life.


Why not tell that to the abortionist and point out his hypocrisy for once. Or will it just fall on his deaf ears? Let's see if your listening skills are any better....

If you seen me with a sign stating "The practice of medicine is not only to prevent death but to improve life." in front of a planned parenthood building.....what would you think or say?


Bartikus, You and your pro-lifers are the ones who should be telling all abortionists your reasons why they are breaking your moral laws since you are the one who apposes it. Pro-choice is self-explanatory; the woman chooses; no need for us to interfere in their choice.


Forget my moral laws....this was taken from Diest's own words. This is what he told us.

You don't believe doctors and those who practice medicine should help to prevent death and improve life?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:59 am
It's up to him to answer your q, but I also provided mine. You have a problem with that?
0 Replies
 
 

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