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When Does Life Begin?

 
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 03:11 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Glad to see that the fruit does fall far from the tree.

Just how, pray tell, does sitting on a county civil grand jury help those in need?

Just think of how much money you will say with all of the abortions that will give you fewer mouths that need food.


May I point out that abortions will not necessarily affect population growth and are not very likely to do so, seeing as the majority of people can't afford them. Those who need it most are likely those who cannot afford it.

A great idea as to controlling population growth would be to ensure that people procreate later on in life to stagger the births and deaths so that the birth rate and death rate match up. But that's getting off topic.

That's my two cents. I have nothing more to add.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 10:59 pm
Re: hi
Orobbin wrote:
to my understanding and experience life begins with the realization of being alive, say your floating in an abyss of nothingness and you suddenly realize your alive, you create ground to walk on but then lose your ability to fly...

a spirit is not formed without an energy
If self awareness if the yardstick by which you measure the beginning of life, then you will need to consider the implications of a successful Turing Test and the implications of sleep.

Further, based on your yardstick, you are going to have to present a foolproof methodology proving self-awareness.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 11:00 pm
Re: hi
Orobbin wrote:
to my understanding and experience life begins with the realization of being alive, say your floating in an abyss of nothingness and you suddenly realize your alive, you create ground to walk on but then lose your ability to fly...

a spirit is not formed without an energy
Given self-awareness is the yardstick by which you measure the beginning of life, then you will need to take into account a successful Turing Test and the effects of sleep.

Further, based on your yardstick, you are going to have to present a foolproof methodology to prove / disprove self-awareness.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 06:53 am
Wolf wrote-

Quote:
A great idea as to controlling population growth would be to ensure that people procreate later on in life to stagger the births and deaths so that the birth rate and death rate match up.


That really is a sentence to ponder. One might wonder what procedures will be necessary to assure the efficient working of the proposal.

Separate barracks for the sexes I suppose until they reach the age that Wolf thinks appropriate. I think the Licensed Victualler's Association and the Confederation of Brewers might have a lot to say about that. Some others too.

I presume the age of consent will have to be raised.

What would you set it at Wolf under our present circumstances? Would it be the same for both sexes or would you adopt the Dr Strangelove positions? I think it is accepted that the quality of offspring falls off with the increased age of the mother.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 09:11 am
spendius wrote:
Wolf wrote-

Quote:
A great idea as to controlling population growth would be to ensure that people procreate later on in life to stagger the births and deaths so that the birth rate and death rate match up.


That really is a sentence to ponder. One might wonder what procedures will be necessary to assure the efficient working of the proposal.

Separate barracks for the sexes I suppose until they reach the age that Wolf thinks appropriate. I think the Licensed Victualler's Association and the Confederation of Brewers might have a lot to say about that. Some others too.

I presume the age of consent will have to be raised.

What would you set it at Wolf under our present circumstances? Would it be the same for both sexes or would you adopt the Dr Strangelove positions? I think it is accepted that the quality of offspring falls off with the increased age of the mother.


You twit, he made no meantion of legislation or new laws. Wolf only brings up the very valid point about birth/death staggering.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 10:45 am
In which case it was empty noise. Surely one can't offer "great" proposals in this sensitive area of social life without any reference to how they might be implemented.

At higher levels Green Papers and White Papers are proposals which are circulated to all interested parties for no other reason than to discuss the future implications of implementing what it is they propose. Years are often required for this process to end up in law.

How would you TKO implement the proposal to stagger deaths? Staggering births is easy. Granting planning permission for example which does, I'm afraid, involve women losing all control of their bodies.

Have you any proposals to make which are independent of legislation and new laws and which haven't been heard of before?

Versions of Wolf's proposal are legion. And he did use the word "ensure"? Did you not see it?
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Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 01:19 pm
Ask Wolf. I only pointed out what incorrect assumptions you made.

T
K
O
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 01:49 pm
As confusing as the phrase "birth/death staggering" may be for those uninitiated with logic, it is patently obvious he was referring to my statement regarding the staggering of the birth rate so it matches the death rate.

As for how birth rates could be staggered, perhaps if we abandon this Puritan nonsense of abstinence-only teaching plus deal with the root causes that lead to unwanted pregnancies that would help. It would have the added benefit of reducing abortions.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 02:02 pm
Wolf, Good idea, but there are just too many constraints that will iimpede its success. To name a few; church doctrine, lack of education, culture, isolation, and media (movies and tv shows with sexual content).
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 02:41 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Wolf, Good idea, but there are just too many constraints that will iimpede its success. To name a few; church doctrine, lack of education, culture, isolation, and media (movies and tv shows with sexual content).


What do you think "deal with the root causes that lead to unwanted pregnancies" means? Although, you do have a point. It does seem that there are an overwhelming number of root causes.
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Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 02:47 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Wolf, Good idea, but there are just too many constraints that will iimpede its success. To name a few; church doctrine, lack of education, culture, isolation, and media (movies and tv shows with sexual content).


What do you think "deal with the root causes that lead to unwanted pregnancies" means? Although, you do have a point. It does seem that there are an overwhelming number of root causes.


I'd also add a raise in the minimum wage and socialized health care to help those who chose keep their baby. But that's just me.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 02:57 pm
Wolf wrote-

Quote:
It does seem that there are an overwhelming number of root causes.


Now you're "overwhelmed" are you, as well you might be? There are no easy answers.

It has just been announced by some think tank that Anti-Social Behaviour Orders (ASBOs) designed to reduce crime have actually caused more crime.

But more crime suits certain of the elites which are cirulating out there and as those who introduced them were mainly lawyers I suppose one can see the point. More ASBO enforcers, more police activity, more court cases, more prisoners, more easy to write juicy stories for media. Jobs galore. None of them productive mind you.

A prison building programme has just been announced for 10,000 extra prisoners. Onward and upward.
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 04:28 pm
spendius wrote:
Wolf wrote-

Quote:
It does seem that there are an overwhelming number of root causes.


Now you're "overwhelmed" are you, as well you might be? There are no easy answers.


Your comprehension skills have deteriorated, spendi.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 04:31 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Wolf, Good idea, but there are just too many constraints that will iimpede its success. To name a few; church doctrine, lack of education, culture, isolation, and media (movies and tv shows with sexual content).


What do you think "deal with the root causes that lead to unwanted pregnancies" means? Although, you do have a point. It does seem that there are an overwhelming number of root causes.


I'd also add a raise in the minimum wage and socialized health care to help those who chose keep their baby. But that's just me.

T
K
O


It would seem to me, at least, that it would include health care to help those to keep their baby.
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Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 04:43 pm
Would limiting a woman's ability to become pregnant until a certain age or by a certain number of births be an infringement on a woman's choice?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 04:47 pm
Bartikus wrote:
Would limiting a woman's ability to become pregnant until a certain age or by a certain number of births be an infringement on a woman's choice?



You really don't know?
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 04:51 pm
Bartikus wrote:
Would limiting a woman's ability to become pregnant until a certain age or by a certain number of births be an infringement on a woman's choice?

It obviously would.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 04:52 pm
wolf - I liked the old avatar..... Sad

T
K
O

... I think it's time for a new one for myself as well...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 05:21 pm
I read a litle Japanese/Chinese, and your avatar has words for Japanese, woman, and inside. Now, I wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot pole. LOL
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 06:41 pm
Maybe it means:

"Wife say take shoes off when inside"
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