When Does Life Begin?

Bartikus wrote:

Anti- choice? I'm all for women having the right to choose whether they get pregnant. It would be awful to force a woman to become pregnant. Who would want that?

Who would want that? People who are actively making it harder to women/girls to have access to birthcontrol for one.

T
K
O

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Diest TKO wrote:

Bartikus wrote:
Anti- choice? I'm all for women having the right to choose whether they get pregnant. It would be awful to force a woman to become pregnant. Who would want that?

Who would want that? People who are actively making it harder to women/girls to have access to birthcontrol for one.

T
K
O

Other than in the case of rape.....

how in the world would that constitute forcing someone to get pregnant? Who are the people making it harder to have access to birth control? The ones that say women have the choice to have sex or the ones that say they don't?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I do not impose my moral values on others through my actions, although I may try to stop anybody from harming a woman or baby.

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Bartikus wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
The unborn is not a "living human being" in legal terms. All other semantics has little value. Most issues concerning the fetus has to do with questions about medical ethics and practice; not legal.

So a mother who wants to have her child is not carrying a "living human being" that deserves protection?

Actually the law DOES protect the unborn in many states, if the woman wants the child.

Those who kill or injure the child may be convicted and sentenced to prison.

But the same child is defenseless if the mother decides to kill it.

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real: But the same child is defenseless if the mother decides to kill it.

Why don't you stop those women if you are so concerned? Did you know there are defenseless children in India that women kill? It's called infanticide. Go help them too! You moron.

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Bartikus wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
Anti- choice? I'm all for women having the right to choose whether they get pregnant. It would be awful to force a woman to become pregnant. Who would want that?

Who would want that? People who are actively making it harder to women/girls to have access to birthcontrol for one.

T
K
O

Other than in the case of rape.....

how in the world would that constitute forcing someone to get pregnant? Who are the people making it harder to have access to birth control? The ones that say women have the choice to have sex or the ones that say they don't?

Too ironic.
K
O

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cicerone imposter wrote:

real: But the same child is defenseless if the mother decides to kill it.

Why don't you stop those women if you are so concerned? Did you know there are defenseless children in India that women kill? It's called infanticide. Go help them too! You moron.

How many defenseless children in India have you helped, CI?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Why don't you stop those women if you are so concerned? Did you know there are defenseless children in India that women kill? It's called infanticide. Go help them too! You moron.

Morally speaking! :wink:

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neologist wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
real: But the same child is defenseless if the mother decides to kill it.

Why don't you stop those women if you are so concerned? Did you know there are defenseless children in India that women kill? It's called infanticide. Go help them too! You moron.
How many defenseless children in India have you helped, CI?

I don't need to impose my morals on Indian women or American women, because it's none of my business, and I also understand the reality of this world. There's not much I can do to influence women to give life or abort their fetus - or kill their children.

On the other hand, you smucks want to save the fetus because you believe your morals have higher standards than the worlds and each woman's. You have set up your own impossible goal by demanding that the fetus is a life to be saved.

Now, go do it; you morons! And please don't forget about the starving children around the world. After all, they are alive - now, and for you each life is precious - even the fetus![/color]

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Where did you get the idea that because I wish to cast light on a moral issue, that I would force anyone to accept my view?

After all, I am not writing in bold, am I?

I have not accused my detractors of being morons, have I?

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neologist wrote:

Where did you get the idea that because I wish to cast light on a moral issue, that I would force anyone to accept my view?

After all, I am not writing in bold, am I?

I have not accused my detractors of being morons, have I?

neo, You're probably the only "realist" in the bunch. The reality is we can't force our morals on others whether we want to or not. However, you still lose on the argument, because you believe your morals to be the standard by which all others must live by. That distinction is not lost on many who read your posts.

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Perhaps. But look in the mirror, CI.

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No need; my reality accepts the world as is, and I know there is little I can do to change it. You moralists know how to talk, but with little or no action to help those who needs it.

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There you go again. You don't see it, do you?

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Bartikus wrote:

Define RL's moral standard ..... that CI is holding RL to.

I did so for CI, but was ignored.

In the context of this discussion regarding abortion, the relevant standard is that abortion should be opposed.

I do so. I act consistently with my belief.

CI, however, claims his position as one who NEVER tries to apply his own personal moral standard, or view of right and wrong, to ANYONE but himself.

Yet his entire history on this thread, (as well as countless other threads) is that of scolding and trashing others for NOT holding the same view of right and wrong as he does.

Therefore , CI does NOT act consistently with HIS belief.

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Not only do I agree it should be opposed but, other choices (pro choice) should be encouraged.

How many abortion clinics operate by donation alone? (not government funded) How many who are pro choice....donate to these clinics that 'care' for these women who choose abortion?

I think many tax dollars are being used for this and dollars from those who oppose it.

Whose morals are being thrusted upon another in this case?

Yet we should take care of all the children before sharing our views or opposing this?

Then those who favor 'pro choice' (abortion as a choice) should be able to fund it also..... no?

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real: CI, however, claims his position as one who NEVER tries to apply his own personal moral standard, or view of right and wrong, to ANYONE but himself.

I can prove that I have been donating to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities for many years. It helps those organizations feed the needy and shelter the poor irregardless of race, religion, culture, or any other group description. I have also donated my time to nonprofit organizations that provides services to the elderly and handicapped, and have served on the Santa Clara County Grand Jury for the 2003-2004 year. I know that my effort in these area helps people not only in my community by world-wide. I have also donated to schools in foreign countries, and have letters from the schools acknowledging my donation. These are my "realities."

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Maybe....those who oppose abortion should help to continue to fund it....AND take care of all the living children before we can speak out!

How's that sound? Fair enough?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

real: CI, however, claims his position as one who NEVER tries to apply his own personal moral standard, or view of right and wrong, to ANYONE but himself.

I can prove that I have been donating to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities for many years. It helps those organizations feed the needy and shelter the poor irregardless of race, religion, culture, or any other group description. I have also donated my time to nonprofit organizations that provides services to the elderly and handicapped, and have served on the Santa Clara County Grand Jury for the 2003-2004 year. I know that my effort in these area helps people not only in my community by world-wide. I have also donated to schools in foreign countries, and have letters from the schools acknowledging my donation. These are my "realities."

The difference is you had the choice! You chose to donate to something you believe in.

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Bartikus wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
real: CI, however, claims his position as one who NEVER tries to apply his own personal moral standard, or view of right and wrong, to ANYONE but himself.

I can prove that I have been donating to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities for many years. It helps those organizations feed the needy and shelter the poor irregardless of race, religion, culture, or any other group description. I have also donated my time to nonprofit organizations that provides services to the elderly and handicapped, and have served on the Santa Clara County Grand Jury for the 2003-2004 year. I know that my effort in these area helps people not only in my community by world-wide. I have also donated to schools in foreign countries, and have letters from the schools acknowledging my donation. These are my "realities."

The difference is you had the choice!

What are you trying to say? That my choices were right or wrong?

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When Does Life Begin?

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