When Does Life Begin?

I know you didn't throw the first stone, I'm just saying that I hope you know that the stone you threw has been thrown before by others. For that matter, it was the first stone thrown. You seem to want protection from stereotypes, yet you fail to recognize your perpetuation of those stereotypes, then you call others hypocrites.

I'm curious, how many times do you use the term"pro-abortion?"

As for what is meaningful, you have lost all touch. If you can't see the differnce in a mother choosing to keep her child and a mother being forced, there is no hope for you, and it's disappointing. BTW, don't lecture me about what I believe. I find plenty of meaning in the unborn, I just won't liter it with facism, then parade around singing about how "the ends, fits the means."

Kate, I get your point here about generalizations, but your sarcastic comment in truth was the first stone thrown in this long time debate. Pro-choice people have been fighting off this absurd characterization for as long as people have been arguing about this.

as i have stated before i view abortion as murder. i don't care about what seems meaningful as much as what i view is morally right. since i view abortion as murder, i believe the govt should be involved (as they are with any thing deemed a crime)

Kate, honestly I'm disappointed in your responce. I certainly have come to the defence of many pro-lifers as far as generalizations in the past. My girlfriend happens to be pro-life. If we can find comprimise, then certainly there is one.

obviously we are of the different opinion on what is meaningful. i believe the unborn child's life is more meaningful than the freedom of a mother to abort that child.

As for what is meaningful, you have lost all touch. If you can't see the differnce in a mother choosing to keep her child and a mother being forced, there is no hope for you, and it's disappointing. BTW, don't lecture me about what I believe. I find plenty of meaning in the unborn, I just won't liter it with facism, then parade around singing about how "the ends, fits the means."

i don't believe that rallying for the absolute rights of an unborn child, over the feelings of the mother, means i've lost all touch. nor do i believe that its facism to value human life.

to say that "these women" have no choice and have to abort is bull.

I see those who continue to advocate for the cell (right to lifers) over the mother as hypocrites of the worst kind. They don't care about the mother or the baby after it's born. They just want to impose their religious belief on a complete stranger who otherwise wouldn't be on their radar screen. They claim every life is precious. Bologne! They haven't done anything for those orphans.

Kate - a review briefly. CI, made a comment about the concerns of Pro-lifers. You responded back with a comment including a statement about how all pro-choicers being murderers in retort.

but your sarcastic comment in truth was the first stone thrown in this long time debate. Pro-choice people have been fighting off this absurd characterization for as long as people have been arguing about this.

1) You have yet to make a convincing arguement that abortion should be criminal.
2) You have yet to qualify your personal moral standard to be a good standard for law.
3) You have not backed up your claim that the government should be given the licence to make the choice for the mother.
4) Yet you don't care what seems meaningful...

Nobody is saying this. What is being said is that unfortunately all too often the choice to abort is the rational and educated choice to make given the circumstances. Wanna change that? Help change the circumstances. Wanting to change this, even feeling that you need to change this does not mean that you surender other's rights.

1) yet to prove that a baby in the womb is not worthy of the same rights as a baby one minute outside of the womb is afforded.

2) you have yet to qualify your personal beliefs on a woman's right to choose as being more important than a child's right to live

3) given any evidence that you do anything at all to help women who find themselves in a position to abort

4) yet you think i care nothing for what is meaningful

I don't care what seems meaningful...

no the choice to abort is the easiest solution not the most rational or educational, nor the most moral. a majority of abortions are done by women (who can get birth control and are choosing to have unprotected sex) who abort bc its not convenient to carry a baby for nine months. and once more, bc you keep ignoring what i've wrote, i do what i can to change the circumstances of those around me who are faced with the choice of aborting or not. but i will always believe and fight for the rights of any child, inside the womb or out, over that of an adult.

kate4christ03 wrote:

you have yet to qualify your personal beliefs on a woman's right to choose as being more important than a child's right to live

Diest TKO wrote:

A seed is not a tree. Established life intuitively has a greater claim when rights collide. Further, since the mother is the custiodian of the unborn's rights, this is a mute question.

If you could take a freshly fertilized egg and put it into an artificial machine womb or a surrogate mother such as a Chimpanzee then things might be different!

Chumly wrote:

If you could take a freshly fertilized egg and put it into an artificial machine womb or a surrogate mother such as a Chimpanzee then things might be different!

This is patently dishonest.

You do not support the right to life for the unborn in the case of fertilized eggs/embryos in IVF clinics, nor in labs conducting embryonic stem cell research.

To imply that it is only when the unborn is in the womb of a woman that you do not support the unborn's independent right to live is simply false.

November 4, 2005 (Associated Press) Sperm have Rights. Christian leaders of the Coalition to Protect the Unborn declared today that not only do fetuses have rights, but so do spermatozoa. "Sperm are potential human beings," announced Bishop Roderick Prudehomme. "They must be saved."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-burnett/this-just-in-sperm-hav_b_19100.html

Poorly done satire.

You "pro-lifers" make me laugh too! You ain't doing a good job; not even a half arse job. Here's a message for you; our war in Iraq is responsible for killing innocent Iraqis by the thousands. Your pro-life stance is a huge failure - around the world.

Rainbow Flag Health Services in San Francisco advertises itself as "the first sperm bank in North America to actively recruit gay and bisexual sperm donors."

That ought get the right-wing pro-lifers all antsy!

The Blair government appointed a controversial retired Anglican bishop as temporary head of its fertility authority. Lord Harries of Pentregarth, formerly Richard Harries, Bishop of Oxford says "I don't regard that very early embryo, which is just a small bundle of multiplying cells, as having the rights of a human being,".......