0
   

When Does Life Begin?

 
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 07:51 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
While prolifers push to give the fetus more rights than the woman


Not MORE rights, CI. The same rights.

The right to live.

cicerone imposter wrote:
they continually ignore all the living children of this world who lack the necessary shelter, food and medical care.


Can you substantiate that this ridiculous accusation of yours applies to me? Of course not.

You simply want to change the subject so you won't have to face the fact that your argument is empty.

Do you have ANY medical evidence that the unborn is NOT a living human being, CI?

You support abortion up to the moment of birth.

What substantive medical difference is there between an infant two minutes BEFORE birth as compared with two minutes AFTER?

Why is he/she MEDICALLY a human being two minutes after, but not MEDICALLY a human being two minutes before?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 09:20 am
real wrote: Not MORE rights, CI. The same rights. The right to live.

Sophistry. You want to take away the legal right of the mother and shift it to the fetus no matter how dangerous that can be to the mother.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 10:01 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
real wrote: Not MORE rights, CI. The same rights. The right to live.

Sophistry. You want to take away the legal right of the mother and shift it to the fetus no matter how dangerous that can be to the mother.


Nonsense.

I have always stated that an exception should be available if the mother's life is in danger.

You are aware of that, but choose to misrepresent my position because you cannot provide ANY medical evidence to support your position.

Do you have ANY medical evidence that the unborn is NOT a living human being, CI?

You support all forms of abortion, including partial birth abortion which is VERY dangerous to the mother.

What substantive medical difference is there between an infant two minutes BEFORE birth as compared with two minutes AFTER?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 10:15 am
Oh, we live by laws, don't we? Not "medical evidence."
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 10:58 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Oh, we live by laws, don't we? Not "medical evidence."


CI, your reply is a lame one, (i.e. abortion SHOULD be legal , because it IS currently legal.)

WHY should it be legal, based on MEDICAL evidence?

What medical evidence do you have that the unborn is NOT a living human being?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 11:01 am
Your argument fails the logic test; you want most pregnancies to come to term, but you do nothing for the living children of this world. Hypocrite.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 11:10 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Your argument fails the logic test; you want most pregnancies to come to term, but you do nothing for the living children of this world. Hypocrite.


Prove that I do nothing for living children.

More to the point, prove that it is logically necessary for some children to die so that others may be fed and cared for.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:48 pm
there is no reason one life should be extinguished so another can be cared for. if abortion were a necessary evil, thus enabling other children to live a good life, then why is poverty still prevelant? this is just another lame argument given by those that push abortion.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:09 pm
The pro-life platform is flawed in a natural sence. It presurposes that nature's default is to allow for every birth to be cared and raised for.

A quick inspection of nature tells otherwise.

PROLIFERS - Still no responce as to letting homosexuals adopt?

RL - nobody needs to prove that you do anything for the children alive today, that burden is on you.

Quote:
there is no reason one life should be extinguished so another can be cared for. if abortion were a necessary evil, thus enabling other children to live a good life, then why is poverty still prevelant? this is just another lame argument given by those that push abortion.


Kate - A mother does not abort because she feels some great obligation to all the other children in the world. This isn't an issue of population control. Why Should a mother be FORCED to have a child if she doesn't want to?

The issue of abortion and stem cell cultivaation are smaller subsets of a larger topic of the quality of life.

I won't argue that every abortion represents more support for a living child now, but make no mistake every FORCED child will have a detimental effect on every other living child. the relation is NOT communitive.

Nobody needs to prove that the unborn is human. Establish that the unborn is human and the argument for keeping abortion legal is still as valid as ever.

I do argee that partial birth abortions being banned is a good thing, but it has nothing to do with the seconds before and after birth, but instead the issue of

1) I believe in making desicions, but making them at appropriate times: i.e.- early in pregnancy.

2) A mother in mid-birth is probably mentally not in a clear state to make such desicions: anestetics, pain, etc.

I'v outlined many times in these threads hat I invision as a reasonable timeline for carrying out abortions and what consultation should be provided as assistance to the mother.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:36 pm
real, That's for you to prove. You've proved yourself as a prolifer. Show us you really are.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 04:05 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
real, That's for you to prove. You've proved yourself as a prolifer. Show us you really are.


You've made a claim that you cannot substantiate , CI.

This has been basically a diversion so that you would not have to support your pro-abortion position or provide MEDICAL evidence that the unborn is NOT a living human being.

You support abortion up to the time of birth , which puts you on the radical fringe, even among your pro-abortion crowd.

However, you've not been able to give a rationale why an infant two minutes PRIOR to birth is any different from an infant two minutes AFTER he/she is born.

Many staunch abortion supporters will not back you when it comes to partial birth abortion, CI.

Political sloganeering, smear tactics and dodges are all we've seen from you, CI.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 05:27 pm
TKo the comment i made was in response to this
Quote:
While prolifers push to give the fetus more rights than the woman, they continually ignore all the living children of this world who lack the necessary shelter, food and medical care.


my point is that there is no justification for abortion. this line of reasoning is circular at best and lacking any evidence.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 06:07 pm
Not wanting to have a child is de facto justification for having an abortion.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 06:28 pm
Lacking any evidence? Where have you been living all these years? Women make the choice every day to have an abortion.

Good luck in trying to stop them; with laws or no laws.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 06:32 pm
Life begins with my first cup of coffee. That's all I know.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 06:38 pm
It's not a diversion; you can't even answer the simplist of questions on being a prolifer; what have you done for the living children of this world who are starving?

I don't approve or condone abortion; I approve of the woman making whatever choice she deems necessary. It's up to her, not me - or anybody else. It's not "YOUR" business until you can prove you also care for the "living children."
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 10:40 pm
JLNobody wrote:
Life begins with my first cup of coffee. That's all I know.
cute
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2007 01:27 am
kate4christ03 wrote:
TKo the comment i made was in response to this
Quote:
While prolifers push to give the fetus more rights than the woman, they continually ignore all the living children of this world who lack the necessary shelter, food and medical care.


my point is that there is no justification for abortion. this line of reasoning is circular at best and lacking any evidence.


The argument is not circular.

It is hypocritical to endorse the idea of every pregnancy should come to term, but not endorse the corresponding needs of the child population.

This argument at least as far as the A2k threads are concerned stem back to me (like others) pointing out that abortion is not an isolated issue, and that several other issues are present and just as relavent in the life of a child. People like RL think that abortion is a topic by itself which comes from no outside influence, yet believe the opposite which is that it does have an effect on society.

I'm far from pro-abortion or pro-life (anti-choice), I think that the number of abortions will go down when you enable a woman to choose to keep a child, and to do that our culture has to effect change in the way we support all of our living.

The burden of proof lies with the pro-choice platform, prove that you can take care of the large numbers of unwanted children in this world already, then you will have a seat at the table for what is done about the ones that aren't even born.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2007 01:35 am
If I wasn't clear enough:

If abortion were to be made illegal, then the only alternative becomes adoption, or illegal abortion.

By the numbers I've seen, making abortion illegal would only stop about 11% of the total amount of abortions (with a max of about 20%).

So revisit the concept of legislation. It obviously isn't the means to the end. Not even for your stance.

There are much better ways to sopport women as opposed to taking their choice and giving it to the government.

Abortion is not synonomous with murder, and I have seen no compelling arguement to justify that it is.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2007 07:55 am
Chumly wrote:
Not wanting to have a child is de facto justification for having an abortion.


How 'bout a few minutes after the child is born?

Is 'not wanting to have a child' a good enough reason to kill it then, as it would have been a few minutes prior?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/19/2025 at 02:27:54