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When Does Life Begin?

 
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 11:44 am
Bartikus wrote:
I agree that it's no one's business what a woman does with her body.

HER body.


So her body does not change in this process? Her nutrients aren't being sapped? Her organs aren't working harder than normal? Don't go there.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 11:57 am
spendius wrote:

And you cannot be allowed to present that as a fundamental principle unless you can offer a response of your policy in the face of an organised mass fertility strike.

Like your hypnotize (and rape) policy? Hypnotizing was your suggestion. Don't try and run from it now.
spendius wrote:

You can't hide behind things like "Oh it won't happen." If you do your principles are mere pragmatism and thus no principles at all.

Let it happen then. Every woman onearth will obviously agree to your idea. It will be the end of the humans. I'll begin preparing for this like I'm preparing for when Godzilla comes out of the pacific and destroys LA.
spendius wrote:

Emperor Augustus tried to legislate against fertility resistance (something short of a strike but getting close). At least two of the well-known heresies which the Church crushed involved a fertility strike. Homosexuality is a fertility strike.

Your claim require numerous things. Primerily the proof that homosexuality is a choice, since a strike is definatly a choice.
spendius wrote:

What is your response to a charismatic woman exploiting media calling for a mass fertility strike unless women's demands, which we all know are limitless, are met. And such a movement getting real momentum. On your principle expressed above you only have one answer to prevent society collapsing. Give in to the demands. We are ruling out rape and hypnotism which, as someone pointed out, is rape as well, as Ms Greer explained to her regiments of fans.

Quite frankly, what would be wrong about giving into their demands? Unless you are also saying that every woman on earth is additionally irrational, their uniform demand must also be rational. you've never answered my question either. What if their demand was for the right to choose?
spendius wrote:

You claim to answer questions asked of you. Answer that. Principles apply to bridges we haven't reached yet. They are for all time and all circumstances.

Your question applies to what can never happen. And yes, I can say that.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:03 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
I agree that it's no one's business what a woman does with her body.

HER body.


So her body does not change in this process? Her nutrients aren't being sapped? Her organs aren't working harder than normal? Don't go there.

T
K
O


It's nothing compared to what the other body endures in an abortion. You can't go there. I have yet to find any woman wanting to trade positions. Can you imagine why?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:09 pm
Baart, You have first-hand experience?
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:12 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Baart, You have first-hand experience?


of what?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:20 pm
Bartikus: It's nothing compared to what the other body endures in an abortion.
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:22 pm
Is firsthand experience required of Diest to make comment regarding the plight of a pregnant woman? How bout you?

Why would I need firsthand experience to know what results from an abortion?
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:30 pm
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
I agree that it's no one's business what a woman does with her body.

HER body.


So her body does not change in this process? Her nutrients aren't being sapped? Her organs aren't working harder than normal? Don't go there.

T
K
O


It's nothing compared to what the other body endures in an abortion. You can't go there. I have yet to find any woman wanting to trade positions. Can you imagine why?

You didn't answer my questions. Just admit that her body goes through changes. Yuo agree that she should have control over that. The rest, I'm not here to reconsile for you.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:33 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
I agree that it's no one's business what a woman does with her body.

HER body.


So her body does not change in this process? Her nutrients aren't being sapped? Her organs aren't working harder than normal? Don't go there.

T
K
O


It's nothing compared to what the other body endures in an abortion. You can't go there. I have yet to find any woman wanting to trade positions. Can you imagine why?

You didn't answer my questions. Just admit that her body goes through changes. Yuo agree that she should have control over that. The rest, I'm not here to reconsile for you.

T
K
O


Is this from firsthand experience? Do I need firsthand experience to comment on the changes a woman goes through or what happens to the unborn in an abortion?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:34 pm
Bartikus: Why would I need firsthand experience to know what results from an abortion?


Why do you even care? Is it your responsibility?
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:36 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bartikus: Why would I need firsthand experience to know what results from an abortion?


Why do you even care? Is it your responsibility?


Do you care? You would'nt have to ask why if you did IMO.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:39 pm
I only care that the woman decides what she wishes to do; in other words, she has "free choice" without the likes of you interfering in her choice - good or bad. Her body, her choice. Simple.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:51 pm
c.i. didn't answer the question. He went nowhere near it. Now he wants to shunt the thread onto Iraq. And he swore dog's bollocks that he answered questions. Since then I've asked four or five and he's not answered one. He's blustering.

TKO wrote-

Quote:
Like your hypnotize (and rape) policy? Hypnotizing was your suggestion. Don't try and run from it now.


Get your bloody head in gear mate. How can I be running from it. It was me who raised the subject and mentioned it again in my last post. Where did you get the idea I was running from it. Are you completely stupid or what? I've heard of sites where they would sling you off for stooping to that sort of shite.

Germaine Greer's famous remark--"all men are rapists" is posited on her belief that women have either been hypnotised or bribed and that both are rape. And it's 40 years old or more and still this expert adviser to young women about the most important aspect of their lives still has not picked up on it. Possibly has never heard of it.

And it wasn't my policy. It has been explained to you once that I have nothing to do with the matter. I'm commenting about your world and the deep hypocrisy that hides beneath your high sounding words and expressions of care and concern. I'm asking questions that are there to be asked.

Quote:
Don't try and run from it now.


My backside. It's you that's running.

Quote:
Let it happen then.


You must be joking. And we are not talking about "every woman on earth". You're incoherent. You're mouthing platitudes which encourage babies being ripped out of their mothers and contributing to the devaluation of the American foetus. A foetus is the young in vertebrate animals between the embryonic stage and independence. At one second to midnight on a certain day, which is estimated, it can be killed legally and one second later it can't. What utter drivel.

Quote:
Primerily the proof that homosexuality is a choice, since a strike is defina


It is a choice for some. T.S. Eliot explained that but you won't know about that because you have your head in a pillowcase. The Marquis de Sade explained it more fully.

Quote:
What if their demand was for the right to choose?


That's the whole point. Choose what? Which men to have sex with? How to dress. To choose having control of their fertility. Goodbye Christianity- Hello anarchy or North Korea.

Quote:
Your question applies to what can never happen. And yes, I can say that.


No you can't. It has happened. I gave three instances.

When every baby is known to be going to consume 8000 barrels of oil before it gets to 80, and the GW brigade is predicting the end of life as we know it, there is a perfectly rational argument, and I've seen it made a few times in posh newspapers that we should get a fertility strike going now. Aside from other arguments about morning sickness, distended bellies, being monitored, maternity wards, nappies and a lifetime with a responsibility round the neck.

What about men? Have they this right you claim. What about the draft? Men have been drafted by the million, many never to return or to return maimed in the service of avoiding any "Let it happen " sililoquies.
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:52 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I only care that the woman decides what she wishes to do; in other words, she has "free choice" without the likes of you interfering in her choice - good or bad. Her body, her choice. Simple.


So then how do you feel about a one- child government policy? You know...forced abortion and sterilization...... Is it just as bad as outlawing abortion since it's her choice, her body---good or bad?

Simple huh?
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 01:15 pm
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
I agree that it's no one's business what a woman does with her body.

HER body.


So her body does not change in this process? Her nutrients aren't being sapped? Her organs aren't working harder than normal? Don't go there.

T
K
O


It's nothing compared to what the other body endures in an abortion. You can't go there. I have yet to find any woman wanting to trade positions. Can you imagine why?

You didn't answer my questions. Just admit that her body goes through changes. Yuo agree that she should have control over that. The rest, I'm not here to reconsile for you.

T
K
O


Is this from firsthand experience? Do I need firsthand experience to comment on the changes a woman goes through or what happens to the unborn in an abortion?

I haven't asked for firsthand experiance. I just ask that you admit that pregnancy affects the woman's body.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 01:19 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
I agree that it's no one's business what a woman does with her body.

HER body.


So her body does not change in this process? Her nutrients aren't being sapped? Her organs aren't working harder than normal? Don't go there.

T
K
O


It's nothing compared to what the other body endures in an abortion. You can't go there. I have yet to find any woman wanting to trade positions. Can you imagine why?

You didn't answer my questions. Just admit that her body goes through changes. Yuo agree that she should have control over that. The rest, I'm not here to reconsile for you.

T
K
O


Is this from firsthand experience? Do I need firsthand experience to comment on the changes a woman goes through or what happens to the unborn in an abortion?

I haven't asked for firsthand experiance. I just ask that you admit that pregnancy affects the woman's body.

T
K
O


Yes, I can.

Can you admit abortion affects the body of another to even a higher degree? To the point of death.

I keep my eyes open. Is this where yours close?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 01:20 pm
How about if all the women decide to have 10 babies each because they like babies so much.

How is that prevented without hypnotism or locking them up? It isn't all that long since the Soviets werre handing out medals and the title of Mother of the Soviet Union bestowed upon her at a public ceremony with everybody clapping and beaming. That's the sort of hypnotism Ms Greer was talking about and the sort of hypnotism I'm talking about.

It what way is the advertising of luxury consumer goods different from a shiny object being swung before the eyes accompanied by a soothing voice?
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 01:23 pm
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Bartikus wrote:
I agree that it's no one's business what a woman does with her body.

HER body.


So her body does not change in this process? Her nutrients aren't being sapped? Her organs aren't working harder than normal? Don't go there.

T
K
O


It's nothing compared to what the other body endures in an abortion. You can't go there. I have yet to find any woman wanting to trade positions. Can you imagine why?

You didn't answer my questions. Just admit that her body goes through changes. Yuo agree that she should have control over that. The rest, I'm not here to reconsile for you.

T
K
O


Is this from firsthand experience? Do I need firsthand experience to comment on the changes a woman goes through or what happens to the unborn in an abortion?

I haven't asked for firsthand experiance. I just ask that you admit that pregnancy affects the woman's body.

T
K
O


Yes, I can.

Can you admit abortion affects the body of another to even a higher degree? To the point of death.

I keep my eyes open. Is this where yours close?


Correction: Is this where your eyes close......again?

Hint: Her body...Her choice.

It's like we close our eyes and don't see her choice about her body being made before she became pregnant and then we close our eyes again to establish it and to avoid seeing the other body.

It's called denial!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 01:38 pm
That is putting it kindly.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 01:45 pm
spendius wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Like your hypnotize (and rape) policy? Hypnotizing was your suggestion. Don't try and run from it now.


Get your bloody head in gear mate. How can I be running from it. It was me who raised the subject and mentioned it again in my last post. Where did you get the idea I was running from it. Are you completely stupid or what? I've heard of sites where they would sling you off for stooping to that sort of shite.

You're a BS artist.

You brought up hypnotizing and when you were called on it you then referred to it as if you had not been the one who suggested it.

spendius wrote:

Germaine Greer's famous remark--"all men are rapists" is posited on her belief that women have either been hypnotised or bribed and that both are rape. And it's 40 years old or more and still this expert adviser to young women about the most important aspect of their lives still has not picked up on it. Possibly has never heard of it.

I don't need anyone else's argument, and I'm not here to defend anyone's beliefs but my own. I think this is pretty funny when contrasted against your belief that when women are given free choice they just ruin their lives. You are a biggot of the first order.

spendius wrote:

And it wasn't my policy. It has been explained to you once that I have nothing to do with the matter. I'm commenting about your world and the deep hypocrisy that hides beneath your high sounding words and expressions of care and concern. I'm asking questions that are there to be asked.

Quote:
Don't try and run from it now.


My backside. It's you that's running.

You have yet to do anything that you have said above. Adn yes you are running. To not run would be to admit that your suggestion of hynotism was poor and would ultimately violate a woman.

spendius wrote:
Quote:
Let it happen then.


You must be joking. And we are not talking about "every woman on earth". You're incoherent. You're mouthing platitudes which encourage babies being ripped out of their mothers and contributing to the devaluation of the American foetus. A foetus is the young in vertebrate animals between the embryonic stage and independence. At one second to midnight on a certain day, which is estimated, it can be killed legally and one second later it can't. What utter drivel.

We aren't talking about every woman?
spendius wrote:
You would soon find out who's business it is if all the women decided to abort unless their demands were met.

Do you know what the word "all" means? Sir, you are incoherent, and I fear illiterate as well.

spendius wrote:
Quote:
Primerily the proof that homosexuality is a choice, since a strike is defina


It is a choice for some. T.S. Eliot explained that but you won't know about that because you have your head in a pillowcase. The Marquis de Sade explained it more fully.

A choice for "some" eh? So you then are retracting your statement that homosexuality is a fertility strike, I assume. If it's only a choice for some then it can't be considered a strike for those who are homosexuals by choice. Nice use of the word "some." Especcially following such a definitive and broad statement that homosexuality is a fertility strike.

spendius wrote:
Quote:
What if their demand was for the right to choose?


That's the whole point. Choose what? Which men to have sex with? How to dress. To choose having control of their fertility. Goodbye Christianity- Hello anarchy or North Korea.

You're getting despirate now and it's even more pathetic. Women should have all of the above. As for your idea that the world would then turn on christianity and go to a communist dictatorship, I'd like to see you prove it. First, Christian women would be able to choose not to have sex, they would be able to choose to dress as christians do, and they could continue to choose to give birth anytime they are pregnant. Christianity would continue. Second, anarchy and communism would hardly be a product. Taking away power from one gender however could create disorder, you claim is unsupported, and a poor attempt to ingender fear in the minds of conservative christians.

spendius wrote:
Quote:
Your question applies to what can never happen. And yes, I can say that.


No you can't. It has happened. I gave three instances.

When every baby is known to be going to consume 8000 barrels of oil before it gets to 80, and the GW brigade is predicting the end of life as we know it, there is a perfectly rational argument, and I've seen it made a few times in posh newspapers that we should get a fertility strike going now. Aside from other arguments about morning sickness, distended bellies, being monitored, maternity wards, nappies and a lifetime with a responsibility round the neck.

It hasn't happened, ever. You examples are not of when ALL women had a fertility strike. They are just a diversion to the fact that you acknowledge how poor your own argument is.

spendius wrote:
What about men? Have they this right you claim. What about the draft? Men have been drafted by the million, many never to return or to return maimed in the service of avoiding any "Let it happen " sililoquies.

I don't support the idea of the draft. Again, a porr assumption on your behalf.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
 

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