When Does Life Begin?

baddog1 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
...Since I do not try to impose my morals on her, she can decide for herself the difficult decision she must make to have or not to have her baby...

But you have no problem imposing your morals on 'us'. Please explain the difference between you imposing your morals on 'us' and 'us' imposing our morals on anyone else.

Also; do you vote?

No. All I'm trying to do is to show you how inconsistent you are in your pro-life position. You can't just advocate for the fetus, then forget about the woman and her child.

FACTS:
1. The woman is a completely stranger to you, and you have absolutely no interest in her life or life choices - except for the fetus.
2. You do not care one iota of what happens to the baby or the mother after the birth or abortion, but you continue to advocate for a fetus that you have no connection to.
3. Your myopic advocacy for the fetus without regard to the mother says more about you than her choice to go to full term or to abort.
4. If life is so "precious," you should at least be consistent and spend as much time and energy on those children already amongst the living.
It's called consistency.
5. I advocate for the woman to make the choice without outside influence; she knows what's best for herself without disinterested people (like you) trying to change the laws to satisfy some religious morality. All of us are not "religious." Why impose your religious beliefs on those who do not believe as you do?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

baddog1 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
...Since I do not try to impose my morals on her, she can decide for herself the difficult decision she must make to have or not to have her baby...

But you have no problem imposing your morals on 'us'. Please explain the difference between you imposing your morals on 'us' and 'us' imposing our morals on anyone else.

Also; do you vote?

No. No - you do not vote? All I'm trying to do is to show you how inconsistent you are in your pro-life position. You can't just advocate for the fetus, then forget about the woman and her child. I never made this claim - nor has anyone else on here that I've seen. This has been an obsessive (and wrong) assertion of yours for a long time. How about letting it go?

And please answer the questions: "But you have no problem imposing your morals on 'us'. Please explain the difference between you imposing your morals on 'us' and 'us' imposing our morals on anyone else".

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My morals? I only wish to have everybody choose for themselves what they consider "moral" in their life, but also to show pro-lifers their own inconsistent stance. That's not my "morals," it's about your own morals and the inconsistency in it.

It seems abundantly clear; none of you "gets it."

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I only wish to have everybody choose for themselves what they consider "moral" in their life, but also to show pro-lifers their own inconsistent stance. That's not my "morals," it's about your own morals and the inconsistency in it.

I am an admitted "prolifer".

Now - please provide evidence of the "inconsistent stance" that you're claiming above by showing quote(s) from me that will prove your assertion to be true.

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baddog1 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
I only wish to have everybody choose for themselves what they consider "moral" in their life, but also to show pro-lifers their own inconsistent stance. That's not my "morals," it's about your own morals and the inconsistency in it.

I am an admitted "prolifer".

Now - please provide evidence of the "inconsistent stance" that you're claiming above by showing quote(s) from me that will prove your assertion to be true.

Tell us how your "pro-life" stance is consistent?

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I know you are, but what am I?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

baddog1 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I only wish to have everybody choose for themselves what they consider "moral" in their life, but also to show pro-lifers their own inconsistent stance. That's not my "morals," it's about your own morals and the inconsistency in it.

I am an admitted "prolifer".

Now - please provide evidence of the "inconsistent stance" that you're claiming above by showing quote(s) from me that will prove your assertion to be true.

Tell us how your "pro-life" stance is consistent?

LOL.

It would be consistent behavior that you would not answer the question!

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Quote:

The majority of the choices are selfish, eh? I'm fairly confortable saying that you actaully believe that all (not the majority) of abortions are done selfishly. I believe you believe this, because I don't believe you would ever be open to any reason a woman could give as being anything but.

You may see it as a majority of selfish people, but this characterization is subjective to your own standard.

If a life is most important independant of being a embryo or a full grown adult, I'll propose Clumly's old question to you.

A building is burning. Their are 10,000 embryos, and 1 child. You can either save the child of the freezer with the 10,000 embryos. Which do you do?

How would your choice affect other's?

Prove to me that they are equal.

Many Many pages back, i gave you stats that showed the largest number of abortions were done by women in their 20's to 30's who get multiple abortions as a form of birth control. You can't tell me this isn't selfish. THese are women who can easily use condoms, birth control and other forms of contraceptives to ensure they don't get pregnant. But instead, they just abort every time they get pregnant. This isn't girls who have been victims of incest or rape.
and in responce to the analogy....IT's absurd. medical science hasn't been able to "grow" a baby in a dish. An embryo in a freezer is just that....it's not yet a fetus and wont become one unless in the womb. It doesn't have a heart beat or the early stages of human development. So would i save a living child over an embryo that doesn't have a heart beat; Yes. A majority of abortions are done after the embryo has developed into a fetus, a living human being.

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kate4christ: You can't tell me this isn't selfish.

Selfish for whom? You? It's the woman's choice, so what's it to you? You have no interest in her life one way or the other - except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger.

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baddog1 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I only wish to have everybody choose for themselves what they consider "moral" in their life, but also to show pro-lifers their own inconsistent stance. That's not my "morals," it's about your own morals and the inconsistency in it.

I am an admitted "prolifer".

Now - please provide evidence of the "inconsistent stance" that you're claiming above by showing quote(s) from me that will prove your assertion to be true.

Tell us how your "pro-life" stance is consistent?

LOL. It would be consistent behavior that you would not answer the question!

Do you understand the principle of logic? I guess not.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

kate4christ: You can't tell me this isn't selfish.

Selfish for whom? You? It's the woman's choice, so what's it to you? You have no interest in her life one way or the other - except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger.

"except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger." As ci is doing with you here. Unless of course - you know each other. :wink:

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baddog1 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
kate4christ: You can't tell me this isn't selfish.

Selfish for whom? You? It's the woman's choice, so what's it to you? You have no interest in her life one way or the other - except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger.

"except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger." As ci is doing with you here. Unless of course - you know each other. :wink:

It is not my morals; I'm showing you how you are inconsistent with your own morals. You completely miss on logic and consistency.

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I support laws prohibiting the rape of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting robbery of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting the murder of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting the kidnapping of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

Your point regarding 'complete strangers' is a bogus one.

The issue is that a living human being is killed in every successful abortion. Whether or not one is personally acquainted with the individuals is not relevant.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

baddog1 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
kate4christ: You can't tell me this isn't selfish.

Selfish for whom? You? It's the woman's choice, so what's it to you? You have no interest in her life one way or the other - except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger.

"except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger." As ci is doing with you here. Unless of course - you know each other. :wink:

It is not my morals; I'm showing you how you are inconsistent with your own morals. You completely miss on logic and consistency.

Would someone other than ci please indulge me here and explain what ci is so intently trying to get me to understand? Perhaps my dense-meter is in the red-zone!

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real life wrote:

I support laws prohibiting the rape of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting robbery of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting the murder of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting the kidnapping of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

Your point regarding 'complete strangers' is a bogus one.

The issue is that a living human being is killed in every successful abortion. Whether or not one is personally acquainted with the individuals is not relevant.

There are laws against what you describe in your list. As for abortion and life, there are laws that cover those issues. What's your point?

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real life wrote:

I support laws prohibiting the rape of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting robbery of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting the murder of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

I support laws prohibiting the kidnapping of complete strangers, Imposter. How 'bout you?

Your point regarding 'complete strangers' is a bogus one.

The issue is that a living human being is killed in every successful abortion. Whether or not one is personally acquainted with the individuals is not relevant.

Bingo!

And even IF our pro life position was inconsistent and hypocritical.....IF.....we are complete strangers to you and you have no right to impose your morals on others.

An abortion kills a human life. Period. It's an execution that you would like to compare to prison executions that occur to those who committed a capital crime....ironically murder.

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baddog1 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
kate4christ: You can't tell me this isn't selfish.

Selfish for whom? You? It's the woman's choice, so what's it to you? You have no interest in her life one way or the other - except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger.

"except trying to impost your morals on a complete stranger." As ci is doing with you here. Unless of course - you know each other. :wink:

It is not my morals; I'm showing you how you are inconsistent with your own morals. You completely miss on logic and consistency.

Would someone other than ci please indulge me here and explain what ci is so intently trying to get me to understand? Perhaps my dense-meter is in the red-zone!

I wonder if he sees any inconsistencies in himself? What does he care about our consistencies....we are complete strangers......

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baddog1 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
I only wish to have everybody choose for themselves what they consider "moral" in their life, but also to show pro-lifers their own inconsistent stance. That's not my "morals," it's about your own morals and the inconsistency in it.

I am an admitted "prolifer".

Now - please provide evidence of the "inconsistent stance" that you're claiming above by showing quote(s) from me that will prove your assertion to be true.

It's because you have not cared for or taken care of all people alive now who are starving or in need. He has said this before. Unless you do this....you will remain inconsistent and hypocritical in his eyes.

You want it to be illegal for abortion then provide for the mother and/or child.

Protect the rights of murderers to live as well and stand against capital punishment. Then in his eyes you would be pro life I think.

Now if he would only hear out what it actually would mean to be pro choice without being inconsistent......

Can one make an educated choice without knowing all the facts CI? Are you pro educated choice or is pro ignorance choices ok with you?

You referred to me as an ignoramus so I suspect you are for educated choices otherwise women who abort without having all the facts do so as ignoramuses and in order to be consistent.....you would have to be against that right?

You MUST be for the woman getting all the medical information available before making a choice on abortion right? You care enough to make sure her choice is not made in ignorance/darkness right?

Or is it you that does'nt care....and maybe your not so pro choice after all?

You would not oppose a woman being required to get the facts before embarking on the decision to abort or not would you?

It's your obligation to make sure women know the facts regarding her choices if you are to be truly pro choice and stand without inconsistencies of your own! Shocked

You can start by telling them the truth.....abortion is killing a human life! There is much more.......

We are more pro choice than you know.

If women knew the truth....it would'nt need be illegal in most cases.

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My position is very clear; let people make their own choices in life. Your position tries to impose your morals on compete strangers. Mine doesn't.

Too bad you lack in logic and consistency; not my problem. It's also too bad you are unable to accept how you're trying to impose your life issues on complete strangers. while you ignore all the children without shelter and starving.

since I do not impose my morals on women who decide to abort their fetus, I have no responsibility to that woman or any women who chooses one way or the other: I stay out of their lives. I have no moral obligation other than what I do to help in some ways without sacrificing my own security and lifestyle. Some things you will never understand or appreciate.

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Do/would you oppose a woman/young girl being misled, lied to, given false information by an abortion clinic worker or other when said woman asks a question regarding abortion....pro choicer CI? Will you answer this?

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When Does Life Begin?

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