TRUE or FALSE: What Goes Around Comes Around ?

Miller wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

TRUE or FALSE:
" What Goes Around Comes Around " ?

In other words,
has experience led u to believe
that your good deeds or bad deeds
affect the quality of your LUCK ?

David

As a little kid growing up, I was taught to always give money to the poor on the street or elsewhere.
My mother always told me that doing so would bring me luck.

David, it has brought me luck and every time I make a "killing" in the stock market,
I send the Salvation Army a check.

That 's interesting.

When I donate,
I prefer to do so INDIVIDUALLY,
even to a bum in the street,
rather than to collectivist charities.

I believe that is more successful
in creating happiness.
David

That person that you become, in kind, determines your experience in the world.

Quote:

That person that you become, in kind, determines your experience in the world.

No, it's your experience in the world that really determines "that person that you become".

Would David be so merry about life, if he were poor and homeless
and unable to eat at fancy restaurants?

Yikes! Have you never heard of William Shakespeare?

By observing whether or not
our good or bad deeds are reflected
in good or bad luck for ourselves.

Quote:

our biggest danger is boredom.

No, our biggest danger is not being prepared for a good death.

Coincidentally though, when I was driving home today, I was listening to the radio and you won't believe it, but this speech (which I was reminded was Portia's) was read in its entirety. It's a beautiful excerpt and inspired me to reread the play.

By observing whether or not
our good or bad deeds are reflected
in good or bad luck for ourselves.

But that's what I mean,
maybe our good deeds result in good results
and good luck for someone else,
with little evidence in our own lives.

Same with the bad. Kind of like how the "sins of the father are visited upon his children"- so much of what you perceive as good or bad is dependent on forces outside your control - like other people in your life- are they good or bad? Are they helpful to your circumstances or not?
And though then one can say, "It's your bad choice if you hang out with bad people" -
what about children
who are born into negative and abusive homes.
What did they send around to deserve that situation
to come around to them?

aidan wrote:

Coincidentally though, when I was driving home today, I was listening to the radio and you won't believe it, but this speech (which I was reminded was Portia's) was read in its entirety. It's a beautiful excerpt and inspired me to reread the play.

I have noticed a greater incidence
of those unlikely co-incidences ( which I rather LIKE )
after I 've meditated for a while.
I don 't know Y.

David said:

Quote:

By observing whether or not
our good or bad deeds are reflected
in good or bad luck for ourselves.

Quote:

But that's what I mean,
maybe our good deeds result in good results
and good luck for someone else,
with little evidence in our own lives.

That gets to the heart of MY question,
which constitutes the title of this thread.

I wanted to ask around
to see if I cud get a consensus
from observation.

Quote:

Same with the bad. Kind of like how the "sins of the father are visited upon his children"- so much of what you perceive as good or bad is dependent on forces outside your control - like other people in your life- are they good or bad? Are they helpful to your circumstances or not?
And though then one can say, "It's your bad choice if you hang out with bad people" -
what about children
who are born into negative and abusive homes.
What did they send around to deserve that situation
to come around to them?

It is held in some quarters ( some Hindus, maybe ? )
that this is a manifestation of choices in earlier
incarnations of life. I have not adopted that filosofy,
but I 'm aware of it.
David

OmSigDAVID wrote:

aidan wrote:

Coincidentally though, when I was driving home today, I was listening to the radio and you won't believe it, but this speech (which I was reminded was Portia's) was read in its entirety. It's a beautiful excerpt and inspired me to reread the play.

I have noticed a greater incidence
of those unlikely co-incidences ( which I rather LIKE )
after I 've meditated for a while.
I don 't know Y.

Quote:

I like them too.
They make me feel that there is some kind of synchronicity
or connectedness in my experience in the universe.

Thay suggest to me
that my mind has some bells n whistles
that don 't ring every day,
but its fun if thay show up once in a while.

Quote:

I don't consciously meditate,
so I can't say I'm more open after any kind of formal meditation,

I define meditation as being the exclusion
of sounds or pictures from my mind;
i.e., the contemplation of darkness n silence.

My mother first mentioned that to me,
in telling of parlor party-games that my family
used to play b4 my birth-- games involving telepathy,
which used that technique to effect a state of mind
that is conducive to causing such noumena.

I have since tried it, with mindblowing results.

Quote:

but I do know those types of incidences seem to happen more when I'm relaxed
and open and happy- or maybe it's just that I am more likely to notice them
in that frame of mind.

*I was laughing at myself as I was typing the above.
I know I sound like a loon - but somehow
David- your own honesty and openness
and willingness to say whatever you believe inspires me to do the same. It's fun - I like it.

Forgive me for beating the drum all day
about tales of my early youth,
but I 'm reminded of such incidents as of
my mother objecting to the insufficient formality
with which I dressed in those years, of 7 to 11;
( since I became a trial attorney,
my wardrobe has consisted predominantly
of conservative, English-cut custom-tailored, vested suits ).

ANYWAY, I rememeber her saying:
" David, u can 't go out in public,
looking like that;
what r people going to THINK ? "
to which I used to answer:
" I don 't give a damn what anyone THINKS.
I care what thay DO, but not what thay THINK. "

I have since modified that filosofy, to some extent.

Quote:

David said:

Quote:

By observing whether or not
our good or bad deeds are reflected
in good or bad luck for ourselves.

Quote:

But that's what I mean,
maybe our good deeds result in good results
and good luck for someone else,
with little evidence in our own lives.

That gets to the heart of MY question,
which constitutes the title of this thread.

I wanted to ask around
to see if I cud get a consensus
from observation.

I think actions and consequences are reciprocal, but not always logically so.

Quote:

Quote:

Same with the bad. Kind of like how the "sins of the father are visited upon his children"- so much of what you perceive as good or bad is dependent on forces outside your control - like other people in your life- are they good or bad? Are they helpful to your circumstances or not?
And though then one can say, "It's your bad choice if you hang out with bad people" -
what about children
who are born into negative and abusive homes.
What did they send around to deserve that situation
to come around to them?

It is held in some quarters ( some Hindus, maybe ? )
that this is a manifestation of choices in earlier
incarnations of life. I have not adopted that filosofy,
but I 'm aware of it.
David

Quote:

Could be. I like the idea of heaven better,
but that's because I'm basically happy with the people surrounding me
in my life and I would want to live any other lifetimes granted me
with those same people present. The era or time in history and/or setting
would not be as important to me as that.

Metaphysicists who r into reincarnation
have said that we travel in groups of souls,
incarnating as parents in one cycle, cousins,
or progeny anther time, or good friends elsewhen;
maybe that 's Y u find it so ez
to make friends with someone, occasionally.

I 'm only SPECULATING, here, not speaking definitively.

Quote:

I guess if you had a family you couldn't stand,
you'd rather take your chances and start all over with reincarnation
into another life situation with totally different people.

But when you really think about it, that reincarnation theory is kind of sinister. Because then that would mean that the little child whose life situation is so dire or sad was repaying bad karma from another lifetime. And if the people around him or her believed that, imagine how they'd treat that child, wondering what sins he'd comitted, eyeing him suspiciously, etc. which would only inspire more negativity and most likely the bad cycle would continue - unless you had a really strong person with a resilient personality who could overcome all that abuse.

Yeah;
I 'm not sure how the Hindus handle that.

Quote:

I guess it does happen sometimes.
But when I think of the practical manifestation of that philosophy, I'm convinced - I definitely don't believe that.

Yeah, but what if the Hindus r RIGHT ?
A young new little Stalin, new baby Hitler, Pol Pot, or Saddam
wud be in for some unhappiness, in light of the past.

Quote:

Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving!

Thank u !

U got your wish.
I had an Opulent Mensa brunch at the Ambassador Grill
on 44th St. between 1st n 2nd Aves, by the UN.
It was a good buffa; clever n imaginative.

I hope that your Thanksgiving was better than mine.
David

Thay suggest to me
that my mind has some bells n whistles
that don 't ring every day,
but its fun if thay show up once in a while.

I define meditation as being the exclusion
of sounds or pictures from my mind;
i.e., the contemplation of darkness n silence.

My mother first mentioned that to me,
in telling of parlor party-games that my family
used to play b4 my birth-- games involving telepathy,
which used that technique to effect a state of mind
that is conducive to causing such noumena.

I have since tried it, with mindblowing results.

Quote:

Forgive me for beating the drum all day
about tales of my early youth,
but I 'm reminded of such incidents as of
my mother objecting to the insufficient formality
with which I dressed in those years, of 7 to 11;
( since I became a trial attorney,
my wardrobe has consisted predominantly
of conservative, English-cut custom-tailored, vested suits ).

" David, u can 't go out in public,
looking like that;
what r people going to THINK ? "
to which I used to answer:
" I don 't give a damn what anyone THINKS.
I care what thay DO, but not what thay THINK. "

I have since modified that filosofy, to some extent.[/b][/color][/size]

Metaphysicists who r into reincarnation
have said that we travel in groups of souls,
incarnating as parents in one cycle, cousins,
or progeny anther time, or good friends elsewhen;
maybe that 's Y u find it so ez
to make friends with someone, occasionally.

I 'm only SPECULATING, here, not speaking definitively.

Yeah, but what if the Hindus r RIGHT ?
A young new little Stalin, new baby Hitler, Pol Pot, or Saddam
wud be in for some unhappiness, in light of the past.

Quote:

Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving!

Thank u !

[quote]U got your wish.
I had an Opulent Mensa brunch at the Ambassador Grill
on 44th St. between 1st n 2nd Aves, by the UN.
It was a good buffa; clever n imaginative.

Quote:

Quote:

I define meditation as being the exclusion
of sounds or pictures from my mind;
i.e., the contemplation of darkness n silence.

Quote:

I haven't ever mastered the art of that - too distractable.

U and everyone else in the world.

If u r going to do it,
what u need to know is that inevitably
distractive thoughts will arrive; EXPECT them
and brush them aside, without emotion; ( i.e., don 't get upset ).
Start over n over n over.

Quote:

My mother first mentioned that to me,
in telling of parlor party-games that my family
used to play b4 my birth-- games involving telepathy,
which used that technique to effect a state of mind
that is conducive to causing such noumena.

I have since tried it, with mindblowing results.

Quote:

Like what? Anything you feel comfortable relating or describing?

Precognition of trivial matters; again:
its FUN when it happens.
One such precognitive instance ( years before I started to meditate )
was in my very early youth, at age 6.
I sent in some boxtops of Kellogg 's Cornflakes and a quarter,
in return for a false badge, and false credentials of a US Martial, as advertized.
I thought that an INORDINATE
amount of time had passed without receipt of the goods.
I remember asking my mother, in frustration:
" Where the hell is my BADGE !! ?? " That night, a Saturday night,
I had a dream that it arrived in the mail. The mail is NOT delivered on Sunday.
It was NOT sent special delivery,
yet the following morning, a truck came and delivered it.
It kinda blew my mind.

Another odd experience ( similarly without meditation )
occurred several decades ago, at the Annual Gathering of Mensa
in Phoenix, Arizona, where I grew up.
I flew from NY to the Gathering.
I rented a car and in a spirit of nostalgia,
I went to the school that I had attended and parked there.
My thoughts returned to the friends that I used to have there,
and my giant dog, King.

I looked over the school
and decided to re-trace my old path in going home,
30 years b4, thinking of the Mexican kid who lived next door to me,
and the other kids. As I crossed MacDowell Road, I saw a store
which I remembered. It had offered for sale in its window
a bright chrome-plated .25 caliber pistol. As I came n went
from school, I had seen that each day for several days.
I had otherwise deployed my financial resources
such that several days passed b4 I bought it.
That image remained in my mind,
as I walked thru the ocean of one-family houses
that was Phoenix, I nostalgically remembered my old life,
comparing n contrasting the situation after 30 years.

Then a van pulled up n parked, as I was walking to my former home.
Its driver dismounted and greeted me.
I saw that strapped onto his left hip
was a chrome-plated .25 caliber pistol.
I thought: I was just thinking of a gun like that,
as I kept walking past the 1000s of one family houses.

Eventually, I turned onto the street on which I used to live.
Then a boy, of the age that I 'd been came out onto the street,
following in my direction. I arrived n beheld my former home,
whereupon a Mexican kid emerged from the house nextdoor.
I wondered whether he was the son of the Mexican kid who used to live there.

Then the Mexican kid yelled to the other boy:
" Where 's King ?? "
I wondered " where 's Rod Serling ? "

I found it statistically interesting
that this did NOT occur,
until after I 'd passed 1000s of houses, when
I eventually arrived at and beheld my former home.

Quote:

All mothers say stuff like that. When my kids were little, I was constantly on about how important it was to be an individual and follow your own heart and mind instead of the crowd. My son, particularly liked to dress really scruffy and I used to say to him what your mother said to you. He was about ten or eleven too, when he replied, "Mom, you told me to be an individual. That's what I'm doing. Making my own decisions about what to wear." To which I could only reply, "Well, at least be a clean individual- wear clean clothes - please- just for me."

But yeah, I know what you mean about caring what people think.
I guess in your line of work, you need to present an image,
so your clothing and appearance are important.

What sort of cases do you try?

I retired from the practice of law in 1986.

Quote:

There has to be a happy medium to caring what other people think in addition to what they do though. I have trouble finding that. I either care too much about what someone I respect or love thinks or care too little about what someone I don't know or know but don't respect thinks. Those tendencies get me in trouble sometimes.

Insofar as people whose minds I RESPECT :
I give very earnest consideration
to what thay think.

Quote:

Yeah, but what if the Hindus r RIGHT ?
A young new little Stalin, new baby Hitler, Pol Pot, or Saddam
wud be in for some unhappiness, in light of the past.

True...but what of all the poor innocents who were put in their path?
I mean, then you'd have to wonder,
in the case of the original Hitler,
or even a hypothetical reincarnated Hitler,
what karma were the Jews he persecuted atoning for?
I just can't see it. I tend to agree with u.

Quote:

Quote:

Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving!

Thank u !

[quote]U got your wish.
I had an Opulent Mensa brunch at the Ambassador Grill
on 44th St. between 1st n 2nd Aves, by the UN.
It was a good buffa; clever n imaginative.

I hope that your Thanksgiving was better than mine.
David[/b][/color][/size][/quote[/quote]

Quote:

I haven't had it yet.
We're having some of our British friends over for a pot luck for Thanksgiving (on Sunday) as yesterday was a normal workday here.

" here " = where ?

This evening, I have arranged a dinner
for the O M SIG, at the Cafe Pierre
on 5th Ave & 61st St,
in the Pierre Hotel, where President Nixon had his
transition team in 1968.
Good food, and superb service
in a splendid, auripherous environment; artisticly ornate.

Quote:

It's fun, because the majority of them had never had a Thanksgiving dinner before. I was talking about it the first year we lived here and a friend asked me about it so I invited her - and she invited someone else, and it's just gotten bigger and bigger every year. This year I think we'll have thirty people of all ages.
So I spent yesterday cleaning and trying to get my house ready, and sleeping. I felt really tired for some reason. Today I get to go shopping for all the food. And tomorrow I'll start cooking. This is all stuff I love to do though - so it's no skin off my nose.



This is my favorite time of year. Do you like Christmas?

Yes.
I have alwasy LOVED Christmas,
everything about it
David

I remember asking my mother, in frustration:
" Where the hell is my BADGE !! ??

I retired from the practice of law in 1986.

I live in England right now -
so since the British don't celebrate Thanksgiving (or the 4th of July)
those days are just regular work-days.

I'd like to be able to meditate.

I tend to do a lot my non-routine thinking when I walk,

and it is amazing how many things I can get figured out in my head during a one hour walk. I guess I think of that as my meditation time. It is very beautiful and peaceful where I walk, and I'm alone, except for my dog - so there are no distractions except the scenery which is kind of a meditation in itself for me- and I guard my solitude kind of jealously. I used to be upset that noone in my family would walk with me - now I don't want any of them to come so I won't have to talk to anyone.

I remember asking my mother, in frustration:
" Where the hell is my BADGE !! ??

That's funny - you said that to your mom at the age of six?

Like I said, you sound like you were a very interesting child.

Your mom sounds like she was pretty cool too - open-minded, etc.

Maybe that's where you gained the confidence to just say what you think. I love it. There's nothing I hate more than repression.

I know what you mean about those kind of precognitive events.
I have slight ones on occasion- just things like I'll think, "I haven't heard
from so and so in a while" and then the phone will ring and it will be them,
or I'll think of someone as I'm driving to the store, and then they'll be
there in the aisle when I get there. But nothing as dramatic as your story.
That is pretty neat.

Of course, I wonder how often stuff like that would happen to all of us,
if we were only more observant of and attuned to the possibility.
We probably miss so much just because of the blinkers we wear as we all travel in our little well-worn ruts.

Quote:

I retired from the practice of law in 1986.

You must be about my dad's age.
He retired (early though at age 57-he'd worked for the same company for 35 years) in l989. He worked in Manhattan too - commuted all those years from NJ.
What kind of law did you practice when you practiced?

Did you spend your working life in NYC
or am I just assuming that because you live there now?

What does OM SIG stand for?

David - if all these questions get on your nerves -
don't answer them- just ignore me - I won't take it personally.
I just like to get an idea of who I'm talking to along with what they think
about specific issues - but if you find it intrusive - please feel free to say so.

Have a good evening.

I remember, that on my first day of school,
she advised me to stand up for my rights,
and don 't let anyone bully me; including the teacher.
I accepted her advice; I still do.

I was a constitutional lawyer.

It was fun.
I had a lot of freedom, too.

I enjoyed the sword n shield work, in front of the jury.

It is a group predominantly dedicated to culinary hedonism,
travel and more culinary hedonism.

Its my email address: [email protected]

Quote:

I remember, that on my first day of school,
she advised me to stand up for my rights,
and don 't let anyone bully me; including the teacher.
I accepted her advice; I still do.

Yes! Because dear god - teacher's can be such bullies sometimes - of children and of their parents. Everytime I see those little kindergartners lining up to be "educated" (really I think sometimes it's more like "neutralized") by some teachers who insist on whipping every single little bit of individuality and personality out of those who won't or can't conform to the narrower and narrower view of what is socially acceptable these days, I say a little prayer for them.

I had a friend who used to say "If you don't want your kids to institutionalize you when you're elderly, better not institutionalize them when they're young".

He was talking about sending them to public school.
Even though (or maybe because) I went to public school, teach public school and sent my children to public school, I sometimes have to agree with him. In some cases it's the beginning of the end of any joy in childhood. It's more like this horrible job they have to slog off to for 35 hours a week.

(I was lucky though - I loved school - it was a joy for me.
I had great teachers all the way through and am doing my best to make sure
that happens for my children. So far, so good...)

I was a constitutional lawyer.

So you defended or were an advocate for the constitutional rights
and freedoms of American citizens?

It was fun.
I had a lot of freedom, too.

Sounds good. I was reading your take on the tattoo/piercing issue.
Not a lot of the willingness to extend personal freedom of self-expression
to those folks there David

(though I had fun reading your take on it -
I always fnd you amusing- and sometimes right on target).

Don't you think they're just trying to inject a little fun, whimsy,
expression, personality, individuality, whatever you want to call it-
into their daily humdrum existences?

So, do you really believe all that you said about that issue?
I'm a little surprised. I'd had you pegged as someone who would take a little bit more of a chance on someone- even if they had made different choices than you (especially around something as superficial as how they looked).

What was that you said a few posts back, something about
"not caring what people thought, but caring what they did"?
How about not caring how they adorn themselves, but caring what they do,
especially when it comes to hiring someone competent to do a specific job.

But I guess if people are put off by it, as Green Witch stated - and it had the potential to hurt your business - what else can you do?
I never think of those things because I know if I wanted something, a plant or the services of a lawyer, I'd buy it from whoever was offering what I wanted. I wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face by saying - "Well, that's what I want, but that person has a tattoo - so I won't buy it from him or her."

I enjoyed the sword n shield work, in front of the jury.

I can imagine you would.
You seem to project the right personality traits for that type of work.
It sounds very interesting.

It is a group predominantly dedicated to culinary hedonism,
travel and more culinary hedonism.

I could get into that. I love to travel and I love food, everything about it. Are you a gourmet as well, or simply a gourmand?

Its my email address: [email protected]

Since Mensa is such a large part of your life,
does that mean you only hang out with smart people?

That could give you kind of a skewed view of the world, don't you think?

I'd be interested to hear your views on things like diversity, equality
and elitism within a society-

and how your views on hiring or making judgements around or solely based on what someone looks like squares with "what goes around comes around."

I learned at an early age,
that if u find out more about the subject matter
than the teacher knows,
then u can intellectually wrestle him down.

Sounds good.
If I had kids, then as a matter of good faith,
I 'd have to investigate a Summerhill School.

My mother explained the value of education
to me, when I was 6. I had a HUGE jurisdictional challenge
to compulsory education, back then.
" Where in the hell do thay think thay get the right
to make ME go over THERE ? " I asked my mother.
Her logic was forthright and inexorable.
I grudgingly put up the White Flag.[/b][/color]

I got good grades,
but I did not enjoy school.
The best part of the day was the end of it;
the best day of the school year was the last one.
I took a lot of days off.

Now, students speak of loving school.
However, many of them ( not necessarily to say the same students )
r shockingly ignorant of information that I believe
that all of my fellow students knew very well, yesterdecade.
Its a big scandal.
I suspect that computer aided home schooling,
will have dramatic effects upon education; we 'll c.[/b][/color]

I must respectfully dissent
from that observation. When I was hiring for my firm,
it never happened that anyone with self-mutilation
presented himself nor herself for employment;
hence, it did not become an issue. I had very large numbers
of applicants for employment; therefore,
it fell to me to choose the finest of the best; I did.

Note that I have NEVER prevented anyone
from mutilating his nor her body; the furthest
that I 've gone with that, is to ask him or her about it,
and discuss putting metal into his or her flesh.

I merely observed that visible self-mutilation
can be accepted as a manifestation of mental disturbance,
thereby presenting an issue of risk that competing candidates do not offer.
In such a case, the self-mutilator may offer a less competitive profile.
I remember a clerk in my firm who screamed with rage into the fone
to a firm of attorneys whose services I had engaged for years,
to handle calendar overflow. Her manifestation of mental disturbance
was intolerable; she was out pretty fast.
Some years ago ( after I retired from the practice of law )
I used to answer the Governor 's mail.
Every day, u cud rely upon it, we got a broad spectrum
of perfectly conservative business advocating the support
of one bill or the opposition of another, then some whose ideas seemed
a little odd ( quite a lot of paranoia ) and some of the incoming mail
trailed off into such bad confusion that I cud not understand
what the writer wanted to be done or restrained from doing;
i.e., experience teaches that mental infirmity is ubiquitous.
Hence, we need to filter it out, as well as possible,
or suffer the consequences. Ideally, an applicant for a job
shud not manifest indicia of mental illness,
or his competitors will likely prevail over him.

Quote:

(though I had fun reading your take on it -
I always fnd you amusing- and sometimes right on target).

Thank u.

Maybe sometimes,
but if someone has a permanent tatoo
of a hammer & sickle or a swastika engraved on his face,
with his body mutilated with metal,
that suggests possible subconscious ideation of self-destruction,
that is occasionally directed outward, do u think I shud have taken notice of it ?
NY law required that I provide my staff with " a safe place to work ".

As I said b4, it is a question of competitive advantage:
if 200 applicants seem to be mentally sound,
shud I single out for the job
the one who seems the most likely to run amok ?

Maybe,
but I draw my own conclusions, as a general rule.
I always have.

Quote:

I'd be interested to hear your views on things like diversity, equality
and elitism within a society-

Have u specific questions ?

Quote:

I learned at an early age,
that if u find out more about the subject matter
than the teacher knows,
then u can intellectually wrestle him down.

Quote:

I'd think that a reasonably intelligent teacher would be able to use an intellectually superior student productively to his or her and the class's advantage though.

Yes.

Quote:

Of course he or she would have to be able to subvert his or her ego and admit the efficacy of simply providing the class the opportunity to receive, in whatever fashion and from whatever person, the most stimulating and correct information. A lot of people have trouble doing that (subverting their egos) - not just teachers.

Yes; when I was about 15,
I thought that I accidentally almost killed
a history teacher; he looked like he was about
to have a heart attack, with perspiration n heavily labored breathing,
after I challenged him. I thought that he was intellectually n emotionally
robust enuf to withstand the challenge, and even to enjoy it,
based upon his earlier representations to the class.

Quote:

My mother explained the value of education
to me, when I was 6. I had a HUGE jurisdictional challenge
to compulsory education, back then.
" Where in the hell do thay think thay get the right
to make ME go over THERE ? " I asked my mother.
Her logic was forthright and inexorable.
I grudgingly put up the White Flag.[/b][/color]

Quote:

You sound like you were very similar in thought and personality to my son
(who's very bright and has an amazing memory).

How old is he ? What 's his name ?

Quote:

He went to kindergarten for about the first week,
and then turned to me as we were walking home and said something like,
"Well, that was fun for about the first three days, but I'm glad it's over."
He wanted to get back to those long, free, childhood days of independent choice in terms of stimulation, etc.

How well I remember that;
asking my mother how long this educational process
wud continue to interfere with my freedom.

When I retired from the practice of law,
I figured that I had returned to those halcyon days
of personal freedom in Elysian delight.
It saddened me that my mother was no longer there.
When I 'd asked her about the blissful restoration of my free time,
I had not considered that possibility.

Quote:

I felt so sad when I realized I had to explain to him,
he was facing twelve more years (at least) of it.

I understand; how 'd he take the news ?

Quote:

Note that I have NEVER prevented anyone
from mutilating his nor her body; the furthest
that I 've gone with that, is to ask him or her about it,
and discuss putting metal into his or her flesh.

Quote:

Quote:

(though I had fun reading your take on it -
I always fnd you amusing- and sometimes right on target).

Thank u.

Quote:

Thank you for providing levity and a differing viewpoint that stimulates thought around these issues. It's something I really enjoy.

Reciprocally, I also enjoy your posts.

Quote:

As I said b4, it is a question of competitive advantage:
if 200 applicants seem to be mentally sound,
shud I single out for the job
the one who seems the most likely to run amok ?

Quote:

Again, I understand what you're saying.
But David - like I said before- if we were to go by your avatar, those on this forum would probably choose you as the person most likely to run amok among us. After communicating with you, I'm convinced that is not at all true.

A gun does not represent malice, nor mental disorder,
any more than a hammer or a knife.
Its just an inanimate tool.

A deranged criminal can apply a rope
to lethal effect. What counts is the man
who wields the tool, not the tool itself.

Quote:

* Just an interesting aside, although of course, I do understand what you're saying and feel that it sounds like you made extremely prudent hiring decisions.

Thank u; I had to do my best.

Quote:

I have my own little prejudices about tattoos and piercings.
I like the belly button piercings, small nose studs and even the eye-brow
piercings sometimes. But I don't like the rings through the nose and the
lip and ear lobe stretching piercings. Again, with tattoos, I sometimes like
really artistically elaborate and beautifully done tattoos around the wrist
or ankle, but I don't find more pedestrian tattoos on biceps (on men or women)
appealing. And I'm ashamed to admit that I think it's an ingrained class distinction I'm making.

I remember once discussing this with a teenage boy
who requested my help in finding a diamond earing
that he 'd lost. I agreed to let him know, in the unlikely event
that I encountered one, acknowledging its financial value,
but I offered the opinion that those boys or adult men who wear earings,
seem to be making an anti-capitalist establishment statement,
which to my mind seems anti-Freedom n pro-liberal.
I suggested ( in a genial way ) that he re-consider symbolizing rebellion
against having a free country.

I have commented to girls
that thay 'd look better without metal in their flesh.
I find it difficult to respect the mind
of anyone who chooses to run a metal shaft thru
his or her tongue, and then keep it there; ( its not even sanitary ).
Doing THAT appears prima facie to be indicative
of his intelligence ( or its limits ).

Quote:

We'll have to share recipes since you like to cook.
I'm no gourmet by a long shot, but I'm always open to learn more from
those who are more skilled at something than I am.

Most of my gourmet yearnings
r satisfied at NY 's finest restaurants,
but I have an old recipe for lasagna around here somewhere,
adopted and adapted from my Aunt Mary,
who got it from an Italian woman in her neighborhood.

Quote:

Maybe,
but I draw my own conclusions, as a general rule.
I always have.

Quote:

That's the best way to be I think. I make it a rule to do that myself.
I rarely take someone else's word on something without also feeling that
I need to explore or experience and make my own decision about something.
Even in terms of movies or books or music- I might read a review, but even if that review is dire, if it's at all interesting to me, I'll check it out myself.

Yes; it is not wise to walk thru the world
promiscuously TRUSTING people; that will yeild painful results.

Quote:

Quote:

I'd be interested to hear your views on things like diversity, equality
and elitism within a society-

Have u specific questions ?

Quote:

I'll think of some- the whole spelling thing is really interesting to me.

I consider myself to have been abused,
as a student, in being tawt to spell the rong way:
i.e., non-foneticly. The Spanish have it much better
with a purely fonetic language; we shud not let them
monopolize sound reasoning.

Most of English is already fonetic.
I doubt that even 5% of English words
r non-fonetic, but thay r illogically, inefficiently
and wastefully spelled, inculcating a habit
that will remain within its victim for many decades of life.

Paradigmatic spelling teachers
r guilty of malpractice n professional negligence;
( to say nothing of child abuse ). Teddy Roosevelt
endeavored to stop it, when he was President,
but Congress did not support him,
thus defeating logic and perpetuating
the pain n misery of learning to spell the rong way.

I like the English system of measurement.
I don 't like the metric system.
The metric system is undeniably BETTER than
the English system, except as to measurement of temperature.
( If I am not mistaken, the English have adopted the metric system. )
DESPITE the fact that I don 't like it,
the metric system shud be tawt in our schools,
just as fonetic spelling shud be,
regardless of the wishes of its anti-logical opponents.
David

Quote:

You sound like you were very similar in thought and personality to my son
(who's very bright and has an amazing memory).

How old is he ? What 's his name ?

When I retired from the practice of law,
I figured that I had returned to those halcyon days
of personal freedom in Elysian delight.
It saddened me that my mother was no longer there.
When I 'd asked her about the blissful restoration of my free time,
I had not considered that possibility.

I felt so sad when I realized I had to explain to him,
he was facing twelve more years (at least) of it.

Reciprocally, I also enjoy your posts.

Quote:

Again, I understand what you're saying.
But David - like I said before- if we were to go by your avatar, those on this forum would probably choose you as the person most likely to run amok among us. After communicating with you, I'm convinced that is not at all true.

A gun does not represent malice, nor mental disorder,
any more than a hammer or a knife.
Its just an inanimate tool.

A deranged criminal can apply a rope
to lethal effect.[/b][/color] What counts is the man
who wields the tool, not the tool itself.

I remember once discussing this with a teenage boy
who requested my help in finding a diamond earing
that he 'd lost. I agreed to let him know, in the unlikely event
that I encountered one, acknowledging its financial value,
but I offered the opinion that those boys or adult men who wear earings,
seem to be making an anti-capitalist establishment statement,
which to my mind seems anti-Freedom n pro-liberal.
I suggested ( in a genial way ) that he re-consider symbolizing rebellion
against having a free country.

Quote:

Maybe,
but I draw my own conclusions, as a general rule.
I always have.

Yes; it is not wise to walk thru the world
promiscuously TRUSTING people; that will yeild painful results.

Quote:

I'd be interested to hear your views on things like diversity, equality
and elitism within a society-

Have u specific questions ?

I consider myself to have been abused,
as a student, in being tawt to spell the rong way:
i.e., non-foneticly. The Spanish have it much better
with a purely fonetic language; we shud not let them
monopolize sound reasoning.

Most of English is already fonetic.
I doubt that even 5% of English words
r non-fonetic, but thay r illogically, inefficiently
and wastefully spelled, inculcating a habit
that will remain within its victim for many decades of life.

Paradigmatic spelling teachers
r guilty of malpractice n professional negligence;
( to say nothing of child abuse ). Teddy Roosevelt
endeavored to stop it, when he was President,
but Congress did not support him,
thus defeating logic and perpetuating
the pain n misery of learning to spell the rong way.

I like the English system of measurement.
I don 't like the metric system.
The metric system is undeniably BETTER than
the English system, except as to measurement of temperature.
( If I am not mistaken, the English have adopted the metric system. )
DESPITE the fact that I don 't like it,
the metric system shud be tawt in our schools,
just as fonetic spelling shud be,
regardless of the wishes of its anti-logical opponents.
David

Quote:

Quote:

You sound like you were very similar in thought and personality to my son
(who's very bright and has an amazing memory).

How old is he ? What 's his name ?

Quote:

He's 18 and his name is Joseph.

Is he going to college ?
Does he favor some particular profession or vocation ?

Quote:

When I retired from the practice of law,
I figured that I had returned to those halcyon days
of personal freedom in Elysian delight.
It saddened me that my mother was no longer there.
When I 'd asked her about the blissful restoration of my free time,
I had not considered that possibility.

Quote:

Sometimes I am just overwhelmed at the sadness and regret that life holds in store of all of us, at one point or another, as a matter course, as we do nothing else but simply live. It doesn't seem fair does it?

I just feel that the plan, as it exists: we're born, we love people and then we or they die and we are separated from them for eternity- is unacceptable.
I think that's why I hold out hope against all logical hope for heaven.
I'm not able to bear the thought of saying good-bye forever to those I love.
What's your take on an afterlife, David?
*If thinking of this makes you sad - I apologize.
Don't feel obligated to dwell on it or answer.

This issue is among my areas of interest.

For a few years ( excluding this one, because it conflicted with HalloweeM )
I have attended the Annual Meetings of the
International Association of Near Death Studies www.IANDS.org
concerning the accounts of people who have returned from death
( usually in hospitals ) and of medical doctors who have investigated,
and reported upon, these phenomena.
( The link will lead u to some of their reports; check also the New Age sections of bookstores. )
Death means the end of life; I am skeptical of death.
Your radio may wear out, but the radio waves just keep on going.
I suspect that the Law of the Conservation of Energy applies to conscious life.
Because this is among my interests,
I am willing to discuss it at length.

Quote:

Reciprocally, I also enjoy your posts.

Quote:

That's nice of you to say.

" By their fruits, ye shall know them. "
By your posts, u have proven yourself to be a nice person
( and open to reason )
worthy of acknowledgement as such.

Quote:

Quote:

Again, I understand what you're saying.
But David - like I said before- if we were to go by your avatar, those on this forum would probably choose you as the person most likely to run amok among us. After communicating with you, I'm convinced that is not at all true.

A gun does not represent malice, nor mental disorder,
any more than a hammer or a knife.
Its just an inanimate tool.

Quote:

Yes. I'm just telling you what people are likely to assume,
though their assumptions are probably without merit.

Quote:

A deranged criminal can apply a rope
to lethal effect.[/b][/color]
What counts is the man
who wields the tool, not the tool itself.

Quote:

I agree. It'd be interesting to revisit this issue and discuss gun control, etc.
now that we've discussed other issues and have gotten a sense of each other in other arenas.
Because I sense, and in fact have been reminded, that in terms of our political beliefs and perceptions, we very well may be polar opposites.
But I think it's GOOD that we've been talking about other things first,
and have enjoyed that, because it will probably have a positive bearing
on how we view each other across our differences.

My dad's very conservative - and I respect him more than I can say.
So I have a lot of practice accepting differing view points.
I don't talk with him about my beliefs though - he gets too angry at me-
he finds my views harder to accept than his are for me to accept.

Human beings naturally react that way
when thay feel that their core values or fundamental beliefs r threatened.

It appears to be the case that, in common with the rest of our species,
your father 's brain is hard wired that way.
I hosted an Opulent Mensan buffa brunch at the Ambassor Grill
Restaurant near the UN, for Thanksgiving. One attender became
somewhat emotional when we did not fully accept her atheism.
There had been some discussion of whether the material flesh n bones
was all that there is, or not, and she did not like that ( deeming it inconsistent with atheism )
my point being that, like your father, when one 's basic beliefs
r called into question, however indirectly, some people manifest
emotional discomfort ( occasionally resulting in screaming ).

Quote:

Or maybe it's just our personalities,
or the fact that he's my father and I defer to him - who knows.

Maybe.
I challenged my father 's political beliefs.
He was a Franklin Roosevelt liberal.

Quote:

I remember once discussing this with a teenage boy
who requested my help in finding a diamond earing
that he 'd lost. I agreed to let him know, in the unlikely event
that I encountered one, acknowledging its financial value,
but I offered the opinion that those boys or adult men who wear earings,
seem to be making an anti-capitalist establishment statement,
which to my mind seems anti-Freedom n pro-liberal.
I suggested ( in a genial way ) that he re-consider symbolizing rebellion
against having a free country.

Quote:

I don't get the connection David.

I might be a little out-of-date with this.

When deviations from the paradigm of personal appearance
began in the 1960s, there was a lot of leftist political dissent
expressed by those boys wearing female length hair,
and thereafter, female jewelry ( e.g., earings )
and subsequently, bodily mutilation. Their liberalism
was in the direction of socialism, toward the welfare state,
away from the unity of individualism n personal freedom
in l'aissez faire economics,
which is the genesis, heart n soul of Americanism.

Of recent years, that may have been forgotten,
among the young, in favor of non-ideological personal style.

I may have been too slow to pick up on
the abandonment of anti-American political expression
in personal appearance. World War 3 is over;
we won it on Christmas Eve of 1991.

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe,
but I draw my own conclusions, as a general rule.
I always have.

Yes; it is not wise to walk thru the world
promiscuously TRUSTING people; that will yeild painful results.

Quote:

I go back and forth on this. I am naturally trusting, and it makes me sad not to be able to be, so though I do realize that I should sometimes be less so, there's another part of me who doesn't want to have to view the world with distrust and would almost rather take my chances and accept the consequences of retaining a more idealistic and positive view of the world and the people in it.

Quote:

Quote:

I'd be interested to hear your views on things like diversity, equality
and elitism within a society-

Have u specific questions ?

Quote:

Why do you equate a liberal outlook or viewpoint with lack of freedom
(as stated in your paragraph about the boy and his lost earring)?

Because the USA was born in rejection and defeat of government.
The Founders had just been burned by government
and thay had grave misgivings about it.
Their writings r very libertarian.
The philosophers by whom thay had been impressed were very libertarian.
Accordingly, the Founders' great yearning
was to LIMIT the power of government.

After the Hanoverian Dynasty was ejected,
government in America was created by the Constitution;
THAT instrument constitutes government,
the same as water constitutes ice.

The greatness of the Constitution, with its Bill of Rights,
is that it strangles and cripples government
( 37 ways in the Bill of Rights alone ) thereby EMPOWERING n enlarging liberty.
Personal freedom and the power of government r INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL.

By being liberal
( i.e., by deviating from the constitutional agreement )
one WEAKENS the LIMITATIONS on the powers of government,
STRENGTHENING government, at the expense of personal freedom;
( like a liberal sneaking into Dr. Frankenstein 's lab, and taking off
some of the chains that bind the monster to his slab in the lab ).

Liberals seek to use democracy
( i.e., poorer voters using their votes
to rip off the more financially successful )
to subordinate personal liberty
to a contrived, artificial equality.
( Even IDENTICAL TWINS r not = ; thay have differences. )
Modern liberals wish to exalt a fake equality
and to accept the derogation n diminution
of individualism & personal freedom
to bring that about; this is done by
electing liberals who care less about
the limitations on the power of government
than thay do about using government as a
weapon of the poor against the financially successful,
regardless of the fact that this is unconstitutional.
( For instance, the 16th Amendment authorizes
a personal income tax; upon that, in the name of equality,
thay superimpose DISCRIMINATORY RATES of taxation
based upon financial success, that the amendment does not authorize.
That DEVIATES from the amendment; that is cheating; that is liberal. )


In answer to your question, Aiden,
I will post a thread concerning our political beliefs and perceptions
in the Philosophy n Debate Forum
on " THE FILOSOFY OF FREEDOM IN AMERICA "
explaining the reasons that I choose
to conserve the Constitution.

I hope that u 'll be join me in that thread for discussion
of these concerns.

U might also be interested in checking my profile
in this forum, which sets forth ( however fleetingly )
some of my cherished filosofy.

Quote:

I consider myself to have been abused,
as a student, in being tawt to spell the rong way:
i.e., non-foneticly. The Spanish have it much better
with a purely fonetic language; we shud not let them
monopolize sound reasoning.

Most of English is already fonetic.
I doubt that even 5% of English words
r non-fonetic, but thay r illogically, inefficiently
and wastefully spelled, inculcating a habit
that will remain within its victim for many decades of life.

Paradigmatic spelling teachers
r guilty of malpractice n professional negligence;
( to say nothing of child abuse ). Teddy Roosevelt
endeavored to stop it, when he was President,
but Congress did not support him,
thus defeating logic and perpetuating
the pain n misery of learning to spell the rong way.

I like the English system of measurement.
I don 't like the metric system.
The metric system is undeniably BETTER than
the English system, except insofar as it measures temperature.
( If I am not mistaken, the English have adopted the metric system. )
DESPITE the fact that I don 't like it,
the metric system shud be tawt in our schools,
just as fonetic spelling shud be,
regardless of the wishes of its anti-logical opponents.
David

I was working with a young man from Albania today who is very bright, has only been speaking English two years and yet speaks and reads English very fluently, but has an incredibly hard time writing English because of the spelling. He said that Albanians also spell phonetically.

When I started my current position, I told my supervisor that I realized I'd have to be congnizant of the British method of spelling various words (such as tyre instead of tire, colour, theatre, etc.) versus the American spelling that comes instinctively to me. She (an Irish woman) replied that she prefers the American spelling of most English words as it is usually simpler. She said she wishes we could move toward it, though due to exam requirements, etc. we can't. So there are some teachers in Britain, at least, who are thinking progressively around the issue.

Britain has moved to the metric system, almost totally except they still use miles instead of kilometers on their road signs. It seems that people who are about forty or above still use English terms of measurement as a rule though. I think they changed over in the sixties or the seventies. I remember when I was in grade school, we were constantly being warned America was moving to the metric system, but it never happened.

In terms of spelling though, one thing I'm curious about, is why the Europeans who type in English on this forum seem to have adopted the American spellings of English words rather than the British. Do all English as second language teachers teach the American spellings? And if so why? Interesting...do you have any idea?

Abuse is a harsh word though David.
In what way do you feel abused when you spell conventionally?