TRUE or FALSE: What Goes Around Comes Around ?

Congrats, Intrepid! Smile

On the original topic, I think that what you choose every minute is how you create yourself to be. That person that you become, in kind, determines your experience in the world.

So giving with a hold for getting something back, is reinforcing a pattern in oneself of being self-centered, rather than generous. That acting on a self centered desire does more harm to oneself than the world ever could.

For sure, I definetly believe it is about who you choose to be in this world. Someone who has taught themselves to be a disciplined, good person will reap the rewards of that.

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flushd wrote:

Congrats, Intrepid!

On the original topic,
I think that what you choose every minute is how you create yourself to be.

I agree.
Well said.

Quote:

That person that you become, in kind, determines your experience in the world.

So giving with a hold for getting something back,
is reinforcing a pattern in oneself of being self-centered, rather than generous.

Well, with all respect,
it seems to me that one does not exclude the other;
i.e., thay r compatible.
For instance, I was implicitly criticized for being too generous,
tho very few people r more self-centered than I am.
Toward the end of last month,
I went to Chicago to celebrate HalloweeM ( as is our wont ).
At the Gathering, there were costume contests for children and adults.
I became aware that the leadership of Chicago Mensa
was cheaping out qua prizes for the winners.

I approached the Chairman of HalloweeM,
and donated a $50 bill for second place of the children 's costume contest.
I have never met any of the children, nor cud I guesss who 'd win.
She negotiated with me, to consent to its distribution to the best 4 winners;
so, I raised the donation to $80, so that thay 'd get at least $20 each;
that 's cheap enuf.
She subsequently informed me that the children were " flabbergasted " at their $20 bills,
in that thay only expected some inexpensive candy.
It was indirectly intimated to me that there was
something rong with children getting too much cash.
I cannot conceive of that,
but again, I consider myself to be very self-centered.

Creating happiness can be FUN,
but to accomplish that u need a mind wherein to plant the $eed$ of joy.

Quote:

That acting on a self centered desire does more harm to oneself than the world ever could.

In truth, I have not found that to be the case.
I am very self-centered and lead a pretty happy life.

Quote:

For sure, I definetly believe it is about who you choose to be in this world. Someone who has taught themselves to be a disciplined,
good person will reap the rewards of that.

On an earlier page
of this thread, I considered the prospects
of enjoying the fruits of our present kindness,
during the Afterlife.
David

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With all due respect, OmSigDavid, it seems quietly significant that you are the only one who is posting about specific things and dollar amounts that you have given or shared and seem to think are of benefit. The only problem being that I am getting the impression that the benefit, in the long run, is expected to be to you.

Some of us have perhaps given several times more than you in terms of dollars but we do not think it particularly important to share this information with others. In other words, it was done without the expectation of a return.

Just my take on things, I guess.

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False; all good and bad are natural occurances, and some are imposed by other humans. Genetics and environment has greater influence.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

False; all good and bad are natural occurances, and some are imposed by other humans. Genetics and environment has greater influence.

Thus, it is your observation
that one 's experience results from the operation of random chance.

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OSD, Yup!

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Remember that tsunami a couple of years ago? It wiped out thousands without regard to who they are/were.

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David,

I guess we disagree. And that is cool. If you are satisfied with your method of being in the world, that's all there is to that.

In regards to "Luck" : I consider luck to be the roll of the die, or the cards you are dealt. The things you have NO control over. Some would say there is no 'luck'...and that is only a difference in belief system. Myself, I've never been able to make the connection of how some come to be born in horrible circumstances while others are born to a rich nourishing environment. There is no personal power over those things.

For example, the kid that is born in Sudan right now. That is 'bad luck'.

However, the experience will be different depending on how the character of the person is built.
It may not even save your life, though it may, but it will make things a whole lot less miserable.

There is a deep burden of carrying around a self-centered view of the world. Those are my experiences speaking. That's all.

Nobody willed the Tsunami to hit, but when it did a whole spectrum of human character came out. Generosity (which I believe certainly helped to make the situation less miserable, to put the pieces back together slowly, and to ease suffering), and also self-centered motives which ripped those in suffering off.

I think it is shortsighted to think that the selfcentered motives will not come to bite those people back. They will, and are. We're connected, acting against that is practically a crime against nature that feeds one's own existence!

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I can't help but think we are who we expect to be. That isn't the beginning and the end, however. First we must have a plan, or great desire, then we should go ahead and draw the map as to how we will reach those goals, the plan, we set for ourselves. Remember that old book "Magnificent Obsession?" Stay the course, but leave room for change! Then, someone like OMsigDavid may come along.

But, does something "that goes around come around?" You're talking cause and effect? Back to the Magnificent Obsession, if I give someone something to see their eyes light up momentarily that"s about all I've done except to make myself happy, I guess. I don't think I would give anyone money unless I saw something in them that indicated they were helping themselves. Neither would I then tell people about this sort of giving, to the contrary I would make myself scarce. So, maybe I loaned them money in a venture they seemed to think would be successful. They are successful, they pay me back, now see how much more I would have to help others, with the number of helpees growing?

It's amazing how the Good Lord (or whoever) helps those who help themselves. Then, too, when you, OMsigDavid give these people money, without knowing it you probably choose who may be helping themselves, how would you know? At least you don't judge.

Did you, OmsigDavid, ever read that little book "Five People you meet in Heaven" by Mitch Albom? Sometimes we don't know we are living the life that is perfect for us.

sun

______________________________________
Thoughts in mind produce after their kind

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Remember that tsunami a couple of years ago?
It wiped out thousands without regard to who they are/were.

Yes.
Of whatever interest it may be ( if any ),
we assume that death is bad.
Indeed, it is ususally considered the worst thing
that can befall a person, hence it is our most severe penalty.

However, people who have returned from death,
usually in hospitals, said that thay LIKED death,
that thay felt liberated,
that thay fear it no more, and look forward to it.

I don 't take that vu,
but I certainly understand what u mean.

Thanx for posting.
In retrospect, I regret not having set this thread up as a poll.

David

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For those near death people who advocates for death, they can have my share. I love life.

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flushd wrote:

David,

I guess we disagree. And that is cool.
If you are satisfied with your method of being in the world, that's all there is to that.

In regards to "Luck" : I consider luck to be the roll of the die, or the cards you are dealt.
The things you have NO control over. Some would say there is no 'luck'...and that is only a difference in belief system.

Myself, I've never been able to make the connection of how some come
to be born in horrible circumstances while others are born to a rich
nourishing environment. There is no personal power over those things.

I 've heard that the Hindus believe that u r
re-incarnated according to your choices in earlier life.
I guess it is either that, or random chance.

Quote:

For example, the kid that is born in Sudan right now. That is 'bad luck'.

YEAH ! very bad

Quote:

However, the experience will be different depending on how the character of the person is built. It may not even save your life, though it may,
but it will make things a whole lot less miserable.

Maybe.

Quote:

There is a deep burden of carrying around a self-centered view of the world.
Those are my experiences speaking. That's all.

I 've been self-centered since age 0,
for many decades, but I 've never felt any burden
resulting therefrom. Of what do u believe the burden to consist ?

Quote:

Nobody willed the Tsunami to hit, but when it did a whole spectrum of human character came out.

Generosity (which I believe certainly helped to make the situation less miserable,
to put the pieces back together slowly, and to ease suffering),
and also self-centered motives which ripped those in suffering off.

I have MAJOR objections
to W 's giving away money from the US Treasury to aliens
for reasons that r unrelated to American interests.
That was UNconstitutional.
There is absolutely NOTHING in the Constitution allowing government
to give away the property of American citizens,
and it violates the 9th and 10th Amendments.
W shud have been impeached and removed
from office for embezzlement. There was a Secretary of HUD,
during the Reagan Administration, who embezzled funds,
which she donated to her favorite charity.
I believe that she was properly cast into prison for that.
No one has the right to be GENEROUS with someone else 's cash.

The difference between charity and robbery
is freedom of volition in the donor.

Quote:

I think it is shortsighted to think that the selfcentered motives will not come to bite those people back.

but, Flushd, u said above that:
" I consider luck to be the roll of the die, or the cards you are dealt.
The things you have NO control over. "
R u being consistent ?

Quote:

They will, and are. We're connected,
acting against that is practically a crime against nature that feeds one's own existence!

That is a very interesting observation !

Some people who have returned from death,
in hospitals, have indicated that thay felt a sense of UNITY of life,
with all of the medical personnel, with the live flowers in the room,
and with the trees and dogs across the street;
i.e., that the diversity of life is illusionary.

If that is true,
then when I give cash to someone,
I am giving to myself.
David

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cicerone imposter wrote:

For those near death people who advocates for death, they can have my share. I love life.

So stipulated !!!!!
I like hanging around, TOO.
Life is FUN !!!!!
DAVID

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OmSigDAVID wrote:

echi wrote:
I find that when I'm in a bad mood,
I tend to assume that other people are having the same kinds of thoughts as me;
I assume they're all judging me and thinking negative thoughts.

I believe the shrinks call that : " projection ".

I don't know if it is "projection", exactly. As I understand it, "projection" works like this:
["I'm not a jerkface, YOU'RE the jerkface."]
In my case, I KNOW I'm a jerkface. . . I just figure everyone else is, too.

OmSigDavid wrote:

echi wrote:
On the flipside, when I'm feeling confident and optimistic,
it seems much more likely that I'll stumble upon some unexpected opportunities that I probably would not have noticed,
or felt deserving enough to accept, otherwise.

So, I suppose I'm a believer in "instant karma".

When you do something good, you feel better,

IF it is accepted,
and if its value is emotionally successful.

Like others have already said, it doesn't matter what anyone's reaction is. I'm not responsible for their reactions. It's about my intent.

Quote:

I have had good looking chicks get mad when I 've given them $100.oo bills, . . .

And you did this, why??

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OmSigDAVID wrote:
echi wrote:
I find that when I'm in a bad mood,
I tend to assume that other people are having the same kinds of thoughts as me;
I assume they're all judging me and thinking negative thoughts.

I believe the shrinks call that : " projection ".
I don't know if it is "projection", exactly. As I understand it, "projection" works like this:
["I'm not a jerkface, YOU'RE the jerkface."]
In my case, I KNOW I'm a jerkface. . . I just figure everyone else is, too.

Everything you said is not considered "projection," because you are stating truths that you perceive. It's only when you assign that to one individual when they themselves have never claim it is "projection." You're applying something that was never said by that individual.

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sunlover wrote:

I can't help but think we are who we expect to be.

I tend to agree.

Quote:

That isn't the beginning and the end, however.
First we must have a plan, or great desire, then we should go ahead and draw the map
as to how we will reach those goals, the plan, we set for ourselves.

" Failing to plan is planning to fail. "

Quote:

Remember that old book "Magnificent Obsession?"
Stay the course, but leave room for change!

I have not read that one;
perhaps u 'll tell us about it ?

Quote:

Then, someone like OMsigDavid may come along.

I have given relatively trivial amounts of cash,
to create joy.

Quote:

But, does something "that goes around come around?"
You're talking cause and effect?

Yeah; that 's the question.

Quote:

Back to the Magnificent Obsession, if I give someone something to see their eyes light up momentarily that"s about all I've done except to make myself happy, I guess.

Well, its a 3 part phenomenon:
first, there is the shock of joy ( IF the gift is successful )
at the time of acquisition; later there is additional joy,
at exchanging the cash for the objects of his or her desire.

There is also the joy of thinking about it,
during discussion. When I have given to children,
the ideal circumstance is that their families were present as witnesses,
in that thay can ( and hopefully WILL ) joyfully discuss it among themselves
for years to come, at family gatherings.
I 've seen that happen; THIS aspect of it costs me NOTHING,
and thus adds to the efficiency of the donation.

I 've had a few mothers tell me, with delight, that at home,
their children throw things up in the air while shouting " FREE MONEY ".

Quote:

I don't think I would give anyone money unless I saw something in them
that indicated they were helping themselves.

I have dumped it on them by surprise,
being " something for nothing "; I enjoy the iconoclasm
of breaking the old dictum
that there is no such thing as a free lunch; ( thay can buy lunch with the cash if thay wanna ).

Call it a hobby.

Quote:

Neither would I then tell people about this sort of giving,
to the contrary I would make myself scarce.

I 'm not shy.
If thay accept the idea,
thay may propagate it,
and I will have thereby indirectly created MORE joy.

Quote:

So, maybe I loaned them money in a venture they seemed to think would be successful.
They are successful, they pay me back, now see how much more I would have to help others, with the number of helpees growing?

I don 't wanna be bothered chasing insignificant amounts of cash. I let em keep it.

Quote:

It's amazing how the Good Lord (or whoever) helps those who help themselves.
Then, too, when you, OMsigDavid give these people money,
without knowing it you probably choose who may be helping themselves,
how would you know? At least you don't judge.

I don 't make helping themselves a pre-condition.

I have given a few $$
to street bums who r taking cans from garbage,
and I found that thay had no discernable joy in receiving it.
My hobby is creating the THRILLS OF JOY.
I got better results in walking thru a shopping mall,
seeing what looked like a wholesome 12 year old American boy playing at a videogame console
in the main corridor of the mall, and dropping a $50 bill on the console,
between his hands. His face started beaming in a few seconds,
when he understood what had happened. Tho he was not helping himself
( as the street bums WERE, in looting the garbage )
in HIS case, joy was successfully and unexpectedly created,
and THAT is the hobby. If the donee does not expect it,
there is a more intense experience of joy,
like sending the little boy of a lady I was seeing some years ago,
a $100.oo bill under the cover of a letter saying
" This is to inform u that u won 2nd prize in the contest.
Here 's the money. Better luck next time " and mailed from another state, while I was away travelling.
I like to be creative.

Quote:

Did you, OmsigDavid, ever read that little book "Five People you meet in Heaven" by Mitch Albom?

No.
What 's it about ?

Quote:

Sometimes we don't know we are living the life that is perfect for us.

Maybe.

sun

______________________________________
Thoughts in mind produce after their kind

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echi wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
echi wrote:
I find that when I'm in a bad mood,
I tend to assume that other people are having the same kinds of thoughts as me;
I assume they're all judging me and thinking negative thoughts.

I believe the shrinks call that : " projection ".
I don't know if it is "projection", exactly. As I understand it, "projection" works like this:
["I'm not a jerkface, YOU'RE the jerkface."]
In my case, I KNOW I'm a jerkface. . . I just figure everyone else is, too.
I see no inconsistency
between what either of us said on this point.

OmSigDavid wrote:
echi wrote:
On the flipside, when I'm feeling confident and optimistic,
it seems much more likely that I'll stumble upon some unexpected opportunities that I probably would not have noticed,
or felt deserving enough to accept, otherwise.

So, I suppose I'm a believer in "instant karma".

When you do something good, you feel better,

IF it is accepted,
and if its value is emotionally successful.
Like others have already said, it doesn't matter what anyone's reaction is.
I'm not responsible for their reactions. It's about my intent.
I must dissent,
upon the basis of my experience.
I remember giving a strikingly beautiful, soft, blonde court reporter a $100.oo bill,
after she put in a day 's work, at depositions.
It is NOT customary to tip court reporters; ( kinda unheard of ).
She did not react. I thought that she did not care about the cash,
and therefore, the gift was wasted; ( i.e., no joy was created ).
I felt SAD about that.

A few years later, I ran into her again, at another depostion.
She then seemed uncharacteristicly sweet;
maybe she had just been a quiet person,
when I had given her the cash.
Maybe I misinterpreted.

Quote:
I have had good looking chicks get mad when I 've given them $100.oo bills, . . .
And you did this, why??
The same as b4: to create joy;
sometimes it works; not always..

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I believe justice is served, though not necessarily in this life.

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Bawb wrote:

I believe justice is served, though not necessarily in this life.

How did u reach that conclusion, Bawb ?

David

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OmsigDavid, the book "Five People You Meet in Heaven" is about a man whose life seemed shockingly sad, dreary, and painful in about every way. After death, however, these five people he had known helped him to understand the why of it all, and showed him how helpful he had been to soooo many. The book can be read in about a day, or an hour or two. NOTE: The author, Mitch Albom, is a sports writer. He's just written a 3rd book, For One More Day that is garnering awards.

And, goal-setting doesn't really mean one's goal should be set in cement. Something better could come along and it will feel so natural and ordinary that someone will, without thinking, take that route. What if, in their stupidity, they missed that path and stuck to "the goal?"

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