TRUE or FALSE: What Goes Around Comes Around ?

How old is he ? What 's his name ?
He's 18 and his name is Joseph.
Is he going to college ?
Does he favor some particular profession or vocation ?

color=green]This issue is among my areas of interest.

For a few years ( excluding this one, because it conflicted with HalloweeM )

I might be a little out-of-date with this.

When deviations from the paradigm of personal appearance
began in the 1960s, there was a lot of leftist political dissent
expressed by those boys wearing female length hair,
and thereafter, female jewelry ( e.g., earings )
and subsequently, bodily mutilation. Their liberalism
was in the direction of socialism, toward the welfare state,
away from the unity of individualism n personal freedom
in l'aissez faire economics,
which is the genesis, heart n soul of Americanism.

Of recent years, that may have been forgotten,
among the young, in favor of non-ideological personal style.

I may have been too slow to pick up on
the abandonment of anti-American political expression
in personal appearance. World War 3 is over;
we won it on Christmas Eve of 1991.

Yes; it is not wise to walk thru the world
promiscuously TRUSTING people; that will yeild painful results.

I go back and forth on this. I am naturally trusting, and it makes me sad not to be able to be, so though I do realize that I should sometimes be less so, there's another part of me who doesn't want to have to view the world with distrust and would almost rather take my chances and accept the consequences of retaining a more idealistic and positive view of the world and the people in it.[/quote[/quote]]
What do you think about this? Do you think it's unwise? I'm sincerely curious - and maybe looking for a little guidance or outside, more objective point of view, as I seriously am torn on this issue.

Quote:

In answer to your question, Aiden,
I will post a thread concerning our political beliefs and perceptions
in the Philosophy n Debate Forum
on " THE FILOSOFY OF FREEDOM IN AMERICA "
explaining the reasons that I choose
to conserve the Constitution.

I hope that u 'll be join me in that thread for discussion
of these concerns.
U might also be interested in checking my profile
in this forum, which sets forth ( however fleetingly )
some of my cherished filosofy.[/b][/color]

I appreciate you taking the time to educate me about the history of the constitution. I'm ashamed to admit that I am woefully uneducated in terms of American history. I was in highschool when history was abandoned for social studies, so that's an area I feel very weak in. When I did take history courses, I chose electives like Ancient and Medieval studies that focused more on literature. So in a lot of ways, I'm walking around clueless.

A lot of points you made interest me. I'll definitely read along on your thread David - but I don't know if I'll feel comfortable making a contribution, as anything I'd have to say would be more philosophically based in terms of general concepts, because I'm not educated fully enough to speak to any specifics or in pertinent detail.

I am interested in your take on equality though. I'm also interested in your take on the Rosenberg trial. I saw that you mentioned something about it in another thread. I hope you don't feel that I'm following you around, but when I enjoy reading a poster, I try to read their contributions on different threads that I may not have noticed or been involved in - in an effort to maybe broaden my own horizons.

I'm interested in your rather virulent reaction to BBB's post and your stated involvement in Mc Carthyism.

Quote:

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In terms of spelling though, one thing I'm curious about, is why the Europeans who type in English on this forum seem to have adopted the American spellings of English words rather than the British. Do all English as second language teachers teach the American spellings? And if so why? Interesting...do you have any idea?

Some of my tenants r English as second language teachers.

It has been said that it is the MANIFEST DESTINY
of American English to dominate the globe
because of our domination of communications,
and that all accents thereof r doomed to extinction
at the hands of global communication.

That makes sense.

Quote:

I pointed out that she was on-the-clock n therefore
it shud matter little to her whether she types 50 writings
( be thay motions, or affirmations in opposition, or correspondence )
or whether she types the same writing 50 times in the same day,
if I was willing to accept that. It worked.
I was very, very gentle with her and I succeeded in convincing her to stay.
A few weeks thereafter, in a fit of self-deprecating emotion,
she quit because of her inability to spell and consequent need to re-type.

That was kind of you. I guess sometimes, when a person realizes their skills do not fit a job, it feels hopeless to them, no matter how understanding the people around them are.

Quote:

I guess we 've covered quite a few
topics in this posting cycle, Aiden.
David

, yeah. So are you spelling Aiden phonetically? You're lucky - you're name DAVID is spelled exactly as it sounds. My real name REBECCA - would be RUHBEKUH - I don't like that at all.
*You can call me Rebecca - but PLEASE don't spell it phonetically- okay?

Quote:

How old is he ? What 's his name ?
He's 18 and his name is Joseph.
Is he going to college ?
Does he favor some particular profession or vocation ?

Quote:

Who the heck knows. Let's just say he's asserting his individuality at this moment in time. Reminds me of the old adage- be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

He's abandoned his studies for the moment - pretty completely and out of the blue-despite having done very well at them his entire school career. Threw me for a loop, I can tell you- but, as I've calmed down and subverted my own ego and sense of disappointment, I can see that in the long run, it may work out better for him.

Maybe he 's earned a rest, for a while.

Quote:

He's not an especially mature 18 year old (his father always said I coddled him.

I don 't believe that will necessarily
interfere with maturity.

Quote:

I couldn't help it-I was just really, really crazy about both my kids and enjoyed taking care of them.

I am extremely confident
that u did the right thing.

I 've heard of the opposite,
with catastrophic results
of passionate hatred,
according to the child,
who is now in later middle age.

Quote:

I don't think that qualifies as spoiling, but maybe it did enable him to feel that he'd always be taken care of by someone other than himself-

Inasmuch as he is intelligent,
as u have indicated,
it is not likely that he believes that;
( ask him ). If he did, then presumably
he 'd be dissuaded from that notion;
don 't u think ?

Quote:

I don't know...all I can say is being a parent and trying to know what's best every step of the way is really hard, David.

That wud be superhuman.
It cannot be expected of u.

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Anyway, I think it might work out for the best if he gives himself a little extra time to figure out what he wants to do with his life. And I'm trying to learn how to be patient and accepting of that.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Quote:

This issue is among my areas of interest.

For a few years ( excluding this one, because it conflicted with HalloweeM )

Quote:

What do you do on Halloween?

I go to Chicago, for HalloweeM,
with my friends. Its a lot of fun.
Mensa 's best Regional Gathering.
Good, interesting speakers n
a good hospitality suite.

Thay have a room set aside for children;
I get a kick out of throwing in handsfull
of dimes n quarters; thay seem to like it.
However, thay were cheaping out
on the prizes for the Costume Contest,
so I donated cash to the Chairman for the winning 4 children
at $20 each; the Chairman said that thay were " flabbergasted ";
better than just a handful of cheap candy; ( don 't u think ? )

We get there early n stay late
to enjoy the delights of Chicago.

Quote:

See, I learn something new everyday -
I wouldn't have taken you for a Halloween celebrant.
Although I guess if you are interested in near death experiences
and the afterlife, Halloween might be interesting to you.

Yeah; I was ambivalent n CONFLICTED,
because IANDS had its annual convention in Texas,
at a medical school, at which my friend, Raymond Moody, M.D.,
inter alia was presenting at the same time as HalloweeM.

Quote:

I might be a little out-of-date with this.

When deviations from the paradigm of personal appearance
began in the 1960s, there was a lot of leftist political dissent
expressed by those boys wearing female length hair,
and thereafter, female jewelry ( e.g., earings )
and subsequently, bodily mutilation. Their liberalism
was in the direction of socialism, toward the welfare state,
away from the unity of individualism n personal freedom
in l'aissez faire economics,
which is the genesis, heart n soul of Americanism.

Of recent years, that may have been forgotten,
among the young, in favor of non-ideological personal style.

I may have been too slow to pick up on
the abandonment of anti-American political expression
in personal appearance.
World War 3 is over; we won it on Christmas Eve of 1991.

Quote:

Yes, I think most young people these days don''t attach any significance or symbolism piercings or long hair, apart from how it makes them appear. And if anything, they're making statements to their peers, not their elders. The kids I talk to and ask about their piercing etc. express the fact that they're trying to show their peers that they don't care that they don't fit into the mainstream adolescent society. They're trying to express the fact that they can make their own way without mainstream acceptance.

Subconsciously, this is very paradigmaticly in furtherance
of the biological imperative,
moving them from 100% parental dependence
to 0% dependence.

Quote:

Schools can be incredibly stifling, fascist places David.

Yes.

Quote:

And the adults are often the least offensive and oppressive presences
in comparison to some of the kids.

Yes; thay need to learn self-defense.
I guess that course is not an elective.

Quote:

Yes; it is not wise to walk thru the world
promiscuously TRUSTING people; that will yeild painful results.

Quote:

I go back and forth on this. I am naturally trusting, and it makes me sad not to be able to be, so though I do realize that I should sometimes be less so, there's another part of me who doesn't want to have to view the world with distrust and would almost rather take my chances and accept the consequences of retaining a more idealistic and positive view of the world and the people in it.[/quote[/quote]]

Quote:

What do you think about this?
Do you think it's unwise?

Yes; human beings
( or any other living beings ) r not trustworthy.
I have learned to think defensively,
and plan fallback positions.
Take a lesson from the Bible as to
Samson n Delila.

Quote:

I'm sincerely curious - and maybe looking for a little guidance or outside, more objective point of view, as I seriously am torn on this issue.

The controlling criterion shud be:
DON 'T RISK MORE THAT U R WILLING TO LOSE.

Quote:

In answer to your question, Aiden,
I will post a thread concerning our political beliefs and perceptions
in the Philosophy n Debate Forum
on " THE FILOSOFY OF FREEDOM IN AMERICA "
explaining the reasons that I choose
to conserve the Constitution.

I hope that u 'll be join me in that thread for discussion
of these concerns.
U might also be interested in checking my profile
in this forum, which sets forth ( however fleetingly )
some of my cherished filosofy.[/b][/color]

Quote:

I appreciate you taking the time to educate me about the history of the constitution.

I 'm glad to do it.

Quote:

I'm ashamed to admit that I am woefully uneducated in terms of American history. I was in highschool when history was abandoned for social studies, so that's an area I feel very weak in. When I did take history courses, I chose electives like Ancient and Medieval studies that focused more on literature. So in a lot of ways, I'm walking around clueless.

We r all ignorant of different things.

Quote:

A lot of points you made interest me. I'll definitely read along on your thread David - but I don't know if I'll feel comfortable making a contribution, as anything I'd have to say would be more philosophically based in terms of general concepts,

That is perfectly acceptable; no one expects more than that.
This is not a technical seminar of experts.
It will be a flexible discussion.

Quote:

because I'm not educated fully enough to speak to any specifics or in pertinent detail.

That 's OK; live n learn.
Maybe others will debate
n we 'll have give n take.

Quote:

I am interested in your take on equality though.
I'm also interested in your take on the Rosenberg trial.

Their espionage brought on the Korean War.
Stalin wud not have dared,
while we had a nuclear monopoly.
Many Americans got killed because of them.
Beyond that, as commies, thay tried to enslave the world.

Quote:

I saw that you mentioned something about it in another thread.
I hope you don't feel that I'm following you around, but when I enjoy reading a poster, I try to read their contributions on different threads that I may not have noticed or been involved in - in an effort to maybe broaden my own horizons.

I feel honored.

Quote:

I'm interested in your rather virulent reaction to BBB's post and your stated involvement in Mc Carthyism.

I am aware of what the commies
wud have done to the world,
and to me, as an individualist,
if thay had the chance.

We saw what thay actually DID
( e.g. Pol Pot 's skull pyramids,
n the WORSE things that were inflicted upon his victims
b4 their skulls were removed. )
There is not enuf space here
to list all of the unspeakable atrocities
committed by the commies.
I have noticed that the politically correct among us
are eager to denounce n condemn the national socialists
( as well we all shud be )
but thay r loathe to speak ill of the international socialists
with whom the national socialists were in unity
until June 22, 1941, when Hitler began Operation Barbarosa.

What the commies did,
in terms of inflicting terror, pain, slavery n sadistic murder
deserves to be remembered, and those who support them
can be held to account, ever so slightly n mildly,
by taunting them n holding a mirror in front them.

As a libertarian individualist, my feeling toward the
authoritarian collectivists of socialism
can be analogized to the sentiments of a Jew toward the nazis.

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In terms of spelling though, one thing I'm curious about, is why the Europeans who type in English on this forum seem to have adopted the American spellings of English words rather than the British. Do all English as second language teachers teach the American spellings? And if so why? Interesting...do you have any idea?

Some of my tenants r English as second language teachers.



[quote]I guess we 've covered quite a few
topics in this posting cycle, Aiden.
David

Quote:

, yeah. So are you spelling Aiden phonetically?

No.
I 'm sorry for any imperfection
in my reproduction of your name.
Attribute it to a failure of memory, on my part,
resulting in a typografical error.

Quote:

You're lucky - you're name DAVID is spelled exactly as it sounds.

I believe that my mother chose well.

Quote:

My real name REBECCA - would be RUHBEKUH - I don't like that at all.
*You can call me Rebecca - but PLEASE don't spell it phonetically- okay?

OK, Rebecca.
In my opinion, that name is fonetic already,
with 2 short Es,
like: gEt out of bEd to go place a bEt, but don 't gEt in dEbt.
That 's how I pronounce it.
David

Yes; human beings
( or any other living beings ) r not trustworthy.
I have learned to think defensively,
and plan fallback positions.

Yes; human beings
( or any other living beings ) r not trustworthy.

Take a lesson from the Bible as to
Samson n Delila.

The controlling criterion shud be:
DON 'T RISK MORE THAT U R WILLING TO LOSE.

OK, Rebecca.
In my opinion, that name is fonetic already,
with 2 short Es,
like: gEt out of bEd to go place a bEt, but don 't gEt in dEbt.
That 's how I pronounce it.
David

Quote:

I just deleted your quote about kids in school
learning self-defense- you said, too bad it's not an elective.

No. By way of agreeing
qua your dictum of fascistic intra-academic
environments, I said that learning self-defense
is not an elective course, meaning
that the students ( bullies ) can make
self-defense an inevitable REQUIRED COURSE.

Quote:

I laughed when I read that - but it's true. Which brings me to:

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Yes; human beings
( or any other living beings ) r not trustworthy.
I have learned to think defensively,
and plan fallback positions.

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So are you saying you're not trustworthy David?

Yes.
For instance, about 35 years ago,
I was supposed to pick up my Godmother
on the curb in front of her apt., on a given Saturday.
I remembered to DO it, the following Wednesday.

When next we met ( a year or 2 later )
I saw Spanish FURY glowing in her elderly eyes,
as she resigned from office. I am fully confident that she did not
consider me to be trustworthy ( tho she never directly addressed that point ).

Quote:

I'm just asking, not in any threatening or confrontational way -
as you don't owe me anything - but as I said,
I just like to know who I'm talking to.

Should I believe anything you say or not?

U shud.

A man can be untrustworthy,
without being a practitioner of contrived deception.
The most earnest analyses of data,
or the most sincere opinions can be offered,
by a man who will fall into distraction n fail to execute future committments.

The best laid plans of mice n men...

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Feel free to be honest - in fact I'd really appreciate it.

I usually do.

Quote:

Yes; human beings
( or any other living beings ) r not trustworthy.

Quote:

Damn, I'd hate for that to be true.

I don't agree that no one is trustworthy. I think I'm trustworthy.
And I think the reason I am a trusting person is because my experience
has been basically positive in terms of meeting and interacting with people,
who have proven themselves to be trustworthy to me.

A former friend of mind,
an engineer named Marvin,
the most brilliant Mensan I ever met,
opined that EVERYONE will prove himself to be untrustworthy, given enuf time.
He was of the vu that by EXPECTING it,
u can mitigate the emotional discomfort of it
when it manifests.

Quote:

I think people make the mistake of believing someone is untrustworthy
because they may have misunderstood what that person was
communicating or had differing expectations than the reality. So when
whatever situation didn't turn out the way they thought they'd been
assured it would, they feel as if they'd been lied to.

That may be true,
but the world also has an adequate supply
of predatory liars.

Quote:

But I think untrustworthiness calls for intentional dishonesty.

From that definition,
I must respectfully dissent.
It means not being worthy of trust,
regardless the reason.

Suppose that I commit myself to pay u
$1000 ( or with u being in England, a 1000 pounds of sterling silver ).
If, as I am en route with the silver
in a wheelbarrow, I get hit by lightning or a truck
b4 I arrive at our agreed point of delivery of the silver,
then, BY DEFINITION, I was not worthy of trust
that it wud be delivered, as planned,
IN THAT IT WAS NOT DELIVERED,
but that is not * intentional. *

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Are you often intentionally dishonest David?

No.

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I can honestly say, I try not to be-
that's why I consider myself to be trustworthy.

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Take a lesson from the Bible as to
Samson n Delila.

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Why do people always focus on the negative?

to counteract pain, or
to mitigate it, anyway


Thus, if someone goes to the trouble n expense
of buying a spare tire ( or a tyre )
he chooses to reduce the discomfort of getting
stranded by a flat.

If someone goes to the trouble n expense
of going out to buy fire insurance,
it is because he wishes to mitigate his potential losses;
that is focusing on the negative,
in order to diminish it.

If someone is concerned about the possibility
of getting robbed, he may get himself some guns,
to mitigate the inconvenience, and to control
the situation as well as possible,
in the face of adverse influences.

Quote:

How about taking a lesson from the Bible and using Jesus as
your example of trustworthiness.

OK.
U know that Jesus said that he who does not have a sword
shud sell his garment and buy one

Quote:

Or if you want an old testament woman - how about Ruth and her
diligence and love and trustworthiness toward Naomi?

I am not up on that story.

Quote:

The controlling criterion shud be:
DON 'T RISK MORE THAT U R WILLING TO LOSE.

Quote:

That's what I mean, why should I have to worry about losing anything?

Because this is a world
of competition for scarce resources,
based on limitation;
that is the basis of economics.

Bear in mind that our discussion
is of terrestrial political economy,
not metaphysics; ( if it were,
then I 'd express myself differently. )

Quote:

Why does someone have to take anything from me-
except what I'm willing to give?

See above; its the sheep n the wolf.
The sheep might not be willing.

Quote:

I don't ever think about what I might lose, because I know I'd never take anything that wasn't mine or freely offered to me, so it usually doesn't even occur to me that that's what someone else might do.

Visiting a courthouse in the morning,
yields the daily sight of daisychains of prisoners manacled
together ( from arrests of the previous nite ) on
their way to arraignment.

Quote:

And the loss of trust is more devastating to me
than anything else I might lose, anyway.

When I began to carry a gun,
at the age of 8, what I thought of losing
was my property, including my life
to criminal depredation.

Quote:

In terms of what you posted on the Rosenberg's and communism -
I found it interesting, both in terms of the information and in the fact that it seems that idealogically, we're worlds apart,

Well, I revealed where MY
ideological world is;
where 's YOURS ?

Quote:

( in some ways, although I can see aspects of a libertarian individualist
in my beliefs sometimes) and sometimes when I first hear you state your views,
my first reaction is to be repelled. But then when you explain why you have those views - they often make sense to me.

Well, I 've reasoned them out
as well as possible; I don 't believe
that thay r complex.

Quote:

I can't argue or disagree with anything you said concerning communism
and liberal America's puzzling ability to accept the genocide and atrocities
committed in the name of "equality" and "socialism" as opposed to ethnic cleansing.
You made a lot of good points - and again, I learned a lot. Thanks.

Its my pleasure.
I believe that I 'll post a thread
concerning what happened to education,
as well as the other one.

Quote:

OK, Rebecca.
In my opinion, that name is fonetic already,
with 2 short Es,
like: gEt out of bEd to go place a bEt, but don 't gEt in dEbt.
That 's how I pronounce it.
David

Quote:

Are you a betting man, David?

VIVA LAS VEGAS !
I DEARLY LOVE IT,
but I doubt that
I 've heard that name pronounced
as ofen as u have.
David

TRUE or FALSE: " What Goes Around Comes Around " ?

In other words,
has experience led u to believe
that your good deeds or bad deeds
affect the quality of your LUCK ?

David

OmSigDAVID wrote:

TRUE or FALSE: " What Goes Around Comes Around " ?

In other words,
has experience led u to believe
that your good deeds or bad deeds
affect the quality of your LUCK ?

David

No.

Quote:

So are you saying you're not trustworthy David?

Yes.
For instance, about 35 years ago,
I was supposed to pick up my Godmother
on the curb in front of her apt., on a given Saturday.
I remembered to DO it, the following Wednesday.

When next we met ( a year or 2 later )
I saw Spanish FURY glowing in her elderly eyes,
as she resigned from office. I am fully confident that she did not
consider me to be trustworthy ( tho she never directly addressed that point ).

Quote:

Should I believe anything you say or not?

U shud.

A man can be untrustworthy,
without being a practitioner of contrived deception.

[/b][/color]

Quote:

Feel free to be honest - in fact I'd really appreciate it.

I usually do.

A former friend of mind,
an engineer named Marvin,
the most brilliant Mensan I ever met,
opined that EVERYONE will prove himself to be untrustworthy, given enuf time.
He was of the vu that by EXPECTING it,
u can mitigate the emotional discomfort of it
when it manifests.

He was of the vu that by EXPECTING it,
u can mitigate the emotional discomfort of it
when it manifests

That may be true,
but the world also has an adequate supply
of predatory liars.

Quote:

But I think untrustworthiness calls for intentional dishonesty.

From that definition,
I must respectfully dissent.
It means not being worthy of trust,
regardless the reason.

Suppose that I commit myself to pay u
$1000 ( or with u being in England, a 1000 pounds of sterling silver ).
If, as I am en route with the silver
in a wheelbarrow, I get hit by lightning or a truck
b4 I arrive at our agreed point of delivery of the silver,
then, BY DEFINITION, I was not worthy of trust
that it wud be delivered, as planned,
IN THAT IT WAS NOT DELIVERED,
but that is not * intentional. *

Quote:

Are you often intentionally dishonest David?

No.[/c[/quote]
Again, I believe you. I don't know why- but I do.

[quote][quote][quote]
Why do people always focus on the negative?

How about taking a lesson from the Bible and using Jesus as
your example of trustworthiness.

Or if you want an old testament woman - how about Ruth and her
diligence and love and trustworthiness toward Naomi?

Quote:

The controlling criterion shud be:
DON 'T RISK MORE THAT U R WILLING TO LOSE.

Quote:

That's what I mean, why should I have to worry about losing anything?

Because this is a world
of competition for scarce resources,
based on limitation;
that is the basis of economics.

Bear in mind that our discussion
is of terrestrial political economy,
not metaphysics; ( if it were,
then I 'd express myself differently. )

Quote:

Why does someone have to take anything from me-
except what I'm willing to give?

See above; its the sheep n the wolf.
The sheep might not be willing.

Quote:

I don't ever think about what I might lose, because I know I'd never take anything that wasn't mine or freely offered to me, so it usually doesn't even occur to me that that's what someone else might do.

Visiting a courthouse in the morning,
yields the daily sight of daisychains of prisoners manacled
together ( from arrests of the previous nite ) on
their way to arraignment.

Quote:

And the loss of trust is more devastating to me
than anything else I might lose, anyway.

When I began to carry a gun,
at the age of 8, what I thought of losing
was my property, including my life
to criminal depredation.

Quote:

In terms of what you posted on the Rosenberg's and communism -
I found it interesting, both in terms of the information and in the fact that it seems that idealogically, we're worlds apart,

Well, I revealed where MY
ideological world is;
where 's YOURS ?

Quote:

( in some ways, although I can see aspects of a libertarian individualist
in my beliefs sometimes) and sometimes when I first hear you state your views,
my first reaction is to be repelled. But then when you explain why you have those views - they often make sense to me.

Well, I 've reasoned them out
as well as possible; I don 't believe
that thay r complex.

I believe that I 'll post a thread
concerning what happened to education,
as well as the other one.

Quote:

Are you a betting man, David?

VIVA LAS VEGAS !
I DEARLY LOVE IT,
but I doubt that
I 've heard that name pronounced
as ofen as u have.
David

Quote:

Quote:

So are you saying you're not trustworthy David?

Yes.
For instance, about 35 years ago,
I was supposed to pick up my Godmother
on the curb in front of her apt., on a given Saturday.
I remembered to DO it, the following Wednesday.

When next we met ( a year or 2 later )
I saw Spanish FURY glowing in her elderly eyes,
as she resigned from office. I am fully confident that she did not
consider me to be trustworthy ( tho she never directly addressed that point ).

Quote:

I would have called that a lapse in memory, or "forgetful" if it happened on a regular basis - or possibly even "unreliable". But I don't think it warrants being labeled "untrustworthy".

Well, she trusted me enuf
to wait for me to drive up, as she stood on the curb,
for however long she was waiting there, trusting.
I 100% proved not to have been worthy of that trust.

Quote:

Did you call her that Wednesday when you remembered what you were supposed to have done, and apologize for forgetting,

Yes.
She was mad then too.

Quote:

or did you just let it ride? If you didn't mention it, she might have thought you didn't care that you had inconvenienced or forgotten about her, and that might have swayed her opinion as to whether you were a good guy who just forgot, or someone who was inconsiderate, unreliable and not to be trusted.

I am CERTAIN that
she was thoroughly convinced
that all of those characteristics shud be attributed to me.

Quote:

Quote:

Should I believe anything you say or not?

U shud.

Quote:

How did I turn out this way?
(I'm just asking hypothetically. I know how I did- and I know that 99% of it has to do with the fact that I want to be able to believe and trust people - so I've convinced myself I can).

U CAN; its just a question of whether its SAFE.

Quote:

A man can be untrustworthy,
without being a practitioner of contrived deception.

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I disagree. Just because a promise is not fulfilled, due to mitigating circumstances, that doesn't make someone unworthy of future trust.
It should make the person to whom the promise was made more aware that circumstances sometimes interfere with the best laid plans and the most committed intentions of trustworthy individuals.
But I don't think one should abandon trust in someone because they were unable to fulfill a promise.
I think someone who is untrustworthy would make the promise knowing they didn't intend to keep it. I do think it warrants "contrived deception".

Yes, but its not limited to that.
Take the case of Marilyn, for instance
( young lady who resided with me on 2 occasions,
in years of yore ). She earnestly promised to do things
( like repay money she continually borrowed ), then several months
into the future when she got some cash,
she defaulted, repudiated, and made a break for Disneyworld,
declaring that she 'd been poor for too long.

( Actually, I did not want cash from her;
I wanted service. I wanted her to house-sit,
while I went to Las Vegas. )

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A former friend of mind,
an engineer named Marvin,
the most brilliant Mensan I ever met,
opined that EVERYONE will prove himself to be untrustworthy, given enuf time.
He was of the vu that by EXPECTING it,
u can mitigate the emotional discomfort of it
when it manifests.

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Why is he your former friend (if it's not too personal a question)?

Did he prove himself untrustworthy?

No.

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Or did he feel that you were?

Yes.

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Was he saying this to explain his own behavior and alleviate guilt
by determining that by virtue of being human,
he shouldn't be expected to be trustworthy?

He was of the vu that no one is able
to be trustworthy, and that ( given enuf time )
everyone will betray your confidence.

I am not able to rationally defend astrology,
but I 'd be less than candid if I did not admit having observed
that people with the Scorpio sunsign
act like the astrological theory says thay do:
i.e., thay r very quick to attibute BETRAYAL
to any imperfection in their friends' behavior
and that " bursts the bubble " in Marvin 's language.

When he erred in giving me bad advice
that I accepted against my better judgment,
he apologized, I accepted it and it was no big deal;
but when I made an ill-considered joke about him
at a Mensa brunch, he took offense n wrote me off.

About 10 years later, I called him with a professional deal in which
I thought he 'd be interested ( he 's a very stingy, avaricious fellow ).
I heard a lot of negative emotion ( pain ) in his voice.
He seems to have felt personally wounded by my error
for which ( it sounds like ) he is tormenting himself because of MY mistake.

His logical brilliance did not find its way
into this area of his mental life.

It has been my observation
that people of Scorpio exhibit a lot of pride in refusal to forgive.
If I had joked the same
as to anyone with a normal state-of-mind,
it wud have passed unnoticed.

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He was of the vu that by EXPECTING it,
u can mitigate the emotional discomfort of it
when it manifests

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My first serious love interest (now a professor of computer science, then a graduate student - also a fairly brilliant guy) used to say something similar.
He said, "try no to expect (anything, too much.. I can't remember exactly)
and then you'll never be disappointed."
I always thought that was the most depressing philosophy.
And I don't think he really believed it himself.
I think it just fit in with the dour, scientific view that he felt that he had to
project to the world. Because he was someone who was able to really enjoy life
and appreciate just pure fun whenever it came around.
That's what attracted me to him in the first place.

Yeah; enjoyment of life
was the reason that I founded
the Opulent Mensan Special Interest Group.

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And I don't think he'd have been attracted to someone like me -
a glass half full -kind of person, if that's what he really believed.

U have your charm, Rebecca.
I think u know that.

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I think brilliant people are admirable and fascinating,
but sometimes don't have a clue when it comes to life's lessons.

Yeah.

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That may be true,
but the world also has an adequate supply
of predatory liars.

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Yes, now that is true.

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But I think untrustworthiness calls for intentional dishonesty.

From that definition,
I must respectfully dissent.
It means not being worthy of trust,
regardless the reason.

Suppose that I commit myself to pay u
$1000 ( or with u being in England, a 1000 pounds of sterling silver ).
If, as I am en route with the silver
in a wheelbarrow, I get hit by lightning or a truck
b4 I arrive at our agreed point of delivery of the silver,
then, BY DEFINITION, I was not worthy of trust
that it wud be delivered, as planned,
IN THAT IT WAS NOT DELIVERED,
but that is not * intentional. *

I still "respectfully dissent". You may still be worthy of my trust. It will just have to be with caveat that I will also have to trust that you won't get struck by lightening the next time you have promised me something and are on the way to deliver it. Do you see what I'm saying?
I may be able to trust that you will make your best effort to do something - because of who you have proven yourself to be. But I must also understand that sometimes unavoidable circumstances intervene. But that doesn't change who you are as a trustworthy person.

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Why do people always focus on the negative?

to counteract pain, or
to mitigate it, anyway

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Except it makes so much of your life so much less pleasurable,

I don 't feel a lesser sense of pleasure.

I might add that I can love a friend,
while know ing that all living beings
r able to act in an untrustworthy fashion.
One concept does not subvert nor debilitate the other.

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and in reality when the negative event does happen to occur
(if it ever does) its impact is usually not softened by the fact that you knew that it could or might happen.

It cud be softened
if u took measures to ease the potential pain, proactively;
( e.g., I 've heard of women advising their daughters,
on their wedding days,
to keep some spare cash secretly at hand,
just in case. )

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For instance, I know that it is always possible
that I could develop cancer at sometime in my life.

Some folks ( including some M.D.s ) assert that cancer
is suicidal; i.e., the manifestation of an unwillingness
to continue to exist in the extant circumstances,
or, in other cases, that it is a self-punitive subconscious decision,
but NOT an irretrievable committment.

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But thinking about that, taking precautions against it, etc. will not do anything to lessen the blow to me if I am someday sat down and given the news that I have cancer. I know this because I have had loved ones who have died suddenly.

That 's not always bad;
I had an uncle, who was described as having
dropped dead while walking with his girlfriend.
He was allegedly dead b4 he hit the ground.
Is it better to go out that way,
or the way that Pope John 23rd did ?

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And though I'd known it was a possibility - of course it was - I was devastated and overwhelmed when it actually happened.

Hence, the benefit of studying the information
that is forthcoming from IANDS
of folks who 've told us what " death " is like;
( in this context, death is only that of the flesh n bones,
not of conscious life, which goes to a better place ).

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All I can say is that I'm happy I didn't spend the time I had with them focused on the fact that someday I might not have them with me- because it would have negatively influenced that time, and it wouldn't have served the desired purpose of making missing them any easier when they were gone.

Maybe it cud be compared
to their going on vacation to Europe,
with a good bankroll ?

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How about taking a lesson from the Bible and using Jesus as
your example of trustworthiness.

OK.
U know that Jesus said that he who does not have a sword
shud sell his garment and buy one
See, now that wasn't one of Jesus' quotes that had impressed itself upon me,
but yes, I can see him saying that. And given your other examples
of insurance and spare tires, etc., I agree that preparation for any inconvenient or dangerous situation is important.

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Or if you want an old testament woman - how about Ruth and her
diligence and love and trustworthiness toward Naomi?

I am not up on that story.

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Ruth was Naomi's (who was an elderly widow and incapable of supporting herself) daughter-in-law.
Ruth's husband (Naomi's son) died.
The custom at the time would have been for Ruth to return to her family -
but she selflessly determined to stay with Naomi (at great personal loss-
her life would have been much easier if she'd followed the custom of the day).
It's just a story about true and committed love, steadfastness and trustworthiness.

Sounds good

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The controlling criterion shud be:
DON 'T RISK MORE THAT U R WILLING TO LOSE.

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That's what I mean, why should I have to worry about losing anything?

Because this is a world
of competition for scarce resources,
based on limitation;
that is the basis of economics.

Bear in mind that our discussion
is of terrestrial political economy,
not metaphysics; ( if it were,
then I 'd express myself differently. )

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I was speaking metaphysically.

Within that filosofical context,
my vu is altogether different.

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I understand your point economically - and I can apply it metaphysically. I think it works that way as well-sadly and unfortunately.

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I read a poem in a magazine about tenderness. And the author was describing one of her mother's old hats that she'd found in the closet and was focusing on the craftmanship and "tenderness" of detail that went into making this hat. The point of the poem was to ask, "what if there was a finite amount of "love" or "tenderness" in the world, would anyone have used up so much of it in the making of a hat?

It seems that people do act as though happiness or other emotional "commodities" are somewhat supply and demand
and so come at a premium and either need to be hoarded or scavenged for - depending what side of the divide you fall on.

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Why does someone have to take anything from me-
except what I'm willing to give?

See above; its the sheep n the wolf.
The sheep might not be willing.

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And I guess there will always be wolves.

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I don't ever think about what I might lose, because I know I'd never take anything that wasn't mine or freely offered to me, so it usually doesn't even occur to me that that's what someone else might do.

Visiting a courthouse in the morning,
yields the daily sight of daisychains of prisoners manacled
together ( from arrests of the previous nite ) on
their way to arraignment.

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And the loss of trust is more devastating to me
than anything else I might lose, anyway.

When I began to carry a gun,
at the age of 8, what I thought of losing
was my property, including my life
to criminal depredation.

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You definitely have had different experiences than I have,
and I can see how yours would influence your view and behavior-
just as mine have influenced mine.

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In terms of what you posted on the Rosenberg's and communism -
I found it interesting, both in terms of the information and in the fact that it seems that idealogically, we're worlds apart,

Well, I revealed where MY
ideological world is;
where 's YOURS ?

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I don't know. I'm beginning to think mine doesn't exist -
never has and never will except in my heart of hearts where I store
my hopes and delusions.

Your ideology is the source
from which u draw your choices on Election Day.

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( in some ways, although I can see aspects of a libertarian individualist
in my beliefs sometimes) and sometimes when I first hear you state your views,
my first reaction is to be repelled. But then when you explain why you have those views - they often make sense to me.

Well, I 've reasoned them out
as well as possible; I don 't believe
that thay r complex.

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I agree, well reasoned and clearly stated.
That's probably why you were a successul trial attorney-
you chose a career that matched your skills.

Thank u; it was fun.

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I believe that I 'll post a thread
concerning what happened to education,
as well as the other one.

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I'd enjoy that - and would actually feel comfortable that I could contribute something concrete and factually based.

I have posted it,
using an 8th grade test from 1895
to contrast with current educational standards.
Lemme know what u think ?
How well wud your students do on it ?

I have yet to post the other one;
been distracted by Time-Warner Cable technician
coming to upgrade the resolution of my Hi Definition TV
and to attach my new DVD recorder.
I have a lot of technical intricacy to master.

This is pretty wild - I was going to edit my post (for about the third time- the first two being for spelling mistakes) to address your post David about the program you watched last night to say that although it sounds as if I'm not aware there are predatory dangerous people out there, I am, so not to worry.

Because I also have an inborn protectiveness about things that are important to me. I kind of naturally only risk what I'm willing to lose and protect the rest, pretty much with my life. I really don't give very much of what means a lot to me away without a lot of thought and the firm belief that it is what I want to do, despite what anyone else might want or think.

But anyway - I couldn't edit because of another post- and look who it turned out to be: a wolf. And not any old wolf, but a blood wolf - which sounds kind of ominous - though I don't know what that is specifically - but anyway this after I had just posted this: And I guess there will always be wolves.

I just started laughing, because what seems to bother most of the people on this forum- kind of random, or even contrived, absurdity - is what I enjoy the most about the forum-specifically because it's so hard to come by in my real, everyday life.

I mean do you know anyone who calls him or herself, "blood wolf"?
It's kind of fun to just let it all out sometimes, no matter how ridiculous it might seem to others.

Since you're a gambler David - remind me to tell you what just happened to me with my dog sometime.
I've taken up enough of your time today - so I won't right now -
but in terms of probability and statistics - it was kind of unforeseeable and chastening.

Made me think that maybe I should re-examine my thought processes
as to the tendency for positives to be more likely than negatives.

I am CERTAIN that
she was thoroughly convinced
that all of those characteristics shud be attributed to me.

I think someone who is untrustworthy would make the promise knowing they didn't intend to keep it. I do think it warrants "contrived deception".

Yeah; enjoyment of life
was the reason that I founded
the Opulent Mensan Special Interest Group.

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And I don't think he'd have been attracted to someone like me -
a glass half full -kind of person, if that's what he really believed.

U have your charm, Rebecca.
I think u know that.

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Why do people always focus on the negative?

to counteract pain, or
to mitigate it, anyway

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Except it makes so much of your life so much less pleasurable,

I don 't feel a lesser sense of pleasure.

I might add that I can love a friend,
while know ing that all living beings
r able to act in an untrustworthy fashion.
One concept does not subvert nor debilitate the other.[/b][/color]

Quote:

and in reality when the negative event does happen to occur
(if it ever does) its impact is usually not softened by the fact that you knew that it could or might happen.

It cud be softened
if u took measures to ease the potential pain, proactively;
( e.g., I 've heard of women advising their daughters,
on their wedding days,
to keep some spare cash secretly at hand,
just in case. )

Some folks ( including some M.D.s ) assert that cancer
is suicidal; i.e., the manifestation of an unwillingness
to continue to exist in the extant circumstances,
or, in other cases, that it is a self-punitive subconscious decision,
but NOT an irretrievable committment.

That 's not always bad;
I had an uncle, who was described as having
dropped dead while walking with his girlfriend.
He was allegedly dead b4 he hit the ground.
Is it better to go out that way,
or the way that Pope John 23rd did ?

Hence, the benefit of studying the information
that is forthcoming from IANDS
of folks who 've told us what " death " is like;
( in this context, death is only that of the flesh n bones,
not of conscious life, which goes to a better place ).

Maybe it cud be compared
to their going on vacation to Europe,
with a good bankroll ?

Your ideology is the source
from which u draw your choices on Election Day.

I have posted it,
using an 8th grade test from 1895
to contrast with current educational standards.
Lemme know what u think ?
How well wud your students do on it ?

I have yet to post the other one;
been distracted by Time-Warner Cable technician
coming to upgrade the resolution of my Hi Definition TV
and to attach my new DVD recorder.
I have a lot of technical intricacy to master.

With my King dog story,
all the wolves,
and your dog to be forthcoming,
the canines r well represented on this thread.

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I am CERTAIN that
she was thoroughly convinced
that all of those characteristics shud be attributed to me.

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After that one incident David,

Yes; she thought once of that was enuf.

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or had there been others?

No.
I never had much contact with her.

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Tell the truth...

OK

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because that's a pretty harsh judgement to make about someone,
and your godson no less,
after one lapse of memory for which you had apologized.

I believe you if you say it though, because the world is so full of people
who are willing to judge others so incredibly harshly,
without even caring to hear or know anything about them.
No offense, since she was your godmother, but maybe she was one
of those people. If so, nothing you could have done would ever have
been good enough. So I wouldn't worry about it,

I won 't; she 's been dead,
for quite a few years now.

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and I certainly wouldn't let an opinion reached so injudiciously change my opinion of myself and what I knew to be my one of my core virtues (like trustworthiness).

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I think someone who is untrustworthy would make the promise
knowing they didn't intend to keep it. I do think it warrants "contrived deception".

Yes, but its not limited to that.
Take the case of Marilyn, for instance
( young lady who resided with me on 2 occasions,
in years of yore ). She earnestly promised to do things
( like repay money she continually borrowed ), then several months
into the future when she got some cash,
she defaulted, repudiated, and made a break for Disneyworld,
declaring that she 'd been poor for too long.

( Actually, I did not want cash from her;
I wanted service. I wanted her to house-sit,
while I went to Las Vegas. )

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She was planning to take that trip David,
when she borrowed that money.

No; the loans were of microscopic size.
Maybe 3 days a week, in the morning,
as I was dressing for court,
she used to say: " Daaaavid, can I have .... "
a tiny, little bit of cash for a few modest items
that she ennumerated, on her list.
Her failure was not in the planning,
but in the execution.

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I don't believe she was ever planning to pay it back.
If she says something like, "I've been poor too long" and then takes money she should be using to pay you back, she'd been dreaming
of Disneyworld for quite some time.

Yeah; she came back,
after her vacation in Disneyworld.

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She probably looked at it somewhat like a Robin Hood situation.

Yeah, she IS a liberal.

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Taking from the rich (I'm going on what you've expressed about yourself,
as well as where you've lived and what you did for a living)
to aid the poor (herself).
I don't know about you, but I always feel that if someone needs something I have, they should just ask me, and I'll try my hardest to help them - especially with something like money, which is non-personal and can be replaced.

Yeah; I liked her
n did not begrudge her the tiny
cash contributions.

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I had a student steal my wallet one time. I don't keep my money in my wallet - I never have. My dad (who I told you worked in Manhattan) taught me when I was a teen-ager to put my money in the front pocket of my jeans when I'd go into the city for a concert or something, instead of in my wallet in my purse, so if my purse got stolen, I'd still have money to get home, etc. So to this day, I always carry my money on my person.

Yeah, when I go to an alien jurisdiction,
I use a false wallet,
with the indigenous currency,
but I keep my American cash, driver 's license,
gun licenses, etc. and a $10 gold piece from 1795
that I carry, in a separate wallet
that I do not use, during that trip.

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Anyway - this student took my wallet from my bag in the classroom.
It was quite inconvenient, as I had to cancel all my credit cards, etc.,
but his mother found my check book in her washing machine a few days later (he'd put it in his pocket).
She and I had a good rapport (we'd had to communicate quite a few times
re this troubled young man) and she returned it to me with a note saying
how sorry she was that he did this, and asking me to press charges,
because she wanted him to receive some sort of punishment that would
act as a deterrent.
I asked him for my pictures back- this was before I had a digital camera
and I had one of a kind pictures that I could never replace in that wallet- but
he didn't have them anymore. He'd thrown them in a dumpster.
But the point is, I told him - "If you needed money, you should have just asked me.
I would have given it to you if I had it,"

I can certainly understand your state-of-mind.
I 'd have given it to him, too.

I have done that, sometimes.

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(his mother worked two menial jobs and was trying to survive with her
two children in an upscale yuppie town where the rents were ridiculously steep-
but it was where she'd been born) and sometimes this boy didn't have
money to eat lunch. So all this bother and trouble and in the end - he
didn't even get any money...so sad that people can't just communicate
with each other.

I 've been informed by a Mensan captain in the NYPD
that criminals ofen do consumately stupid things
( like rob stores in their own neighborhoods,
where everyone knows them and knows where thay live ).

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Yeah; enjoyment of life
was the reason that I founded
the Opulent Mensan Special Interest Group.

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And I don't think he'd have been attracted to someone like me -
a glass half full -kind of person, if that's what he really believed.

U have your charm, Rebecca.
I think u know that.

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As do you, David.
I think every person has a quality or characteristic of one sort or another
than can be perceived as charming by another - but thanks for saying
that- that was nice. I wasn't fishing for a compliment though.

I know.

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I meant that people of certain temperaments tend to be drawn to those
who are similar.

Yeah; birds of a feather...

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I'm not really drawn to negative people.
There's enough gloom and doom in the world without bringing it into my life if it doesn't absolutely need to be there.

So stipulated.

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I empathize, and try to sympathize, but I soon tire of complainers
and whiners and so don't choose them as friends, and can certainly never
imagine choosing a negative, pessimistic person as a life partner.

Agreed.
My dead friend, Neil, was like that.
Very clever, and full of jokes
( as well as many plethoras of adventures ).

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By the same token, I know that positive, optimistic people can really get on the nerves of someone with a less "sunny" disposition. He was at his core, a happy person. I know that. He just felt that he had to be all serious and intellectual sometimes and try to cover that up.
Sadly, he played it out a little too completely. He had asked me to marry him (he was seven years older than me, and when he was ready to be married, I wasn't- so I said no, and suggested that since we were apart, he see other people). He ended up marrying this girl who was very sweet - but often sad. We kept in touch and one time when I was talking to him on the phone I asked him how he was doing and he said, "Okay, but if I have one piece of advice to give you it's this- "Never marry someone because you feel sorry for them." I didn't want to intrude on his or his wife's private business and he was too honorable to expound further, but I got the message. So a couple of years later, when I got married, I married someone who made me laugh.

Good idea.

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Why do people always focus on the negative?

to counteract pain, or
to mitigate it, anyway

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Except it makes so much of your life so much less pleasurable,

I don 't feel a lesser sense of pleasure.

But how would you know? Maybe your life could be even more pleasurable if you were looking forward to things instead of looking out for and steeling your emotions against mishaps.

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I might add that I can love a friend,
while know ing that all living beings
r able to act in an untrustworthy fashion.
One concept does not subvert nor debilitate the other.[/b][/color]

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Yes, that's understanding that we're all human.

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and in reality when the negative event does happen to occur
(if it ever does) its impact is usually not softened by the fact that you knew that it could or might happen.

It cud be softened
if u took measures to ease the potential pain, proactively;
( e.g., I 've heard of women advising their daughters,
on their wedding days,
to keep some spare cash secretly at hand,
just in case. )

That's funny, but again, probably sadly necessary in a lot of cases.

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Some folks ( including some M.D.s ) assert that cancer
is suicidal; i.e., the manifestation of an unwillingness
to continue to exist in the extant circumstances,
or, in other cases, that it is a self-punitive subconscious decision,
but NOT an irretrievable committment.

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Do you believe this?

Yes, yes, and yes.

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That 's not always bad;
I had an uncle, who was described as having
dropped dead while walking with his girlfriend.
He was allegedly dead b4 he hit the ground.
Is it better to go out that way,
or the way that Pope John 23rd did ?

Yeah, quick and painless is the way I'd like to go too, but it's a blow to those left behind, for sure.

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Hence, the benefit of studying the information
that is forthcoming from IANDS
of folks who 've told us what " death " is like;
( in this context, death is only that of the flesh n bones,
not of conscious life, which goes to a better place ).

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There's this song I've known for a year or so that I really like,

Maybe " Ode to JOY " ?

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and since I've been communicating with you,
I've heard the lyrics in a different light - which applies to this subject.
I'll post them for you to read sometime and see what you think.

Thank u

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It's about a radio operator, airing communications from the past and future - pretty interesting.

I 'll look forward to it.

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Maybe it cud be compared
to their going on vacation to Europe,
with a good bankroll ?

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Yeah, but who gets to go? Everyone?

Well, we 've gotten some bad reports
from atheists and suicides.
However, thay 've also said that upon
application ( yelling ) for forgiveness,
help was forthcoming.

A friendly acquaintance of mine
is emotionally aggressive about her Jewish atheism.
She has exhibited some moderately energetic vocal
intolerance to any contemplation, even indirectly,
of opinion concerning the existence of a Deity.
I 'd like to tip her off
to the problems mentioned by said atheists,
but I doubt that she 'd willingly listen to it.



Altho our reservoir of data
includes 1000s of accounts,
the WORST that we 've had is a few petty crooks;
no one like Stalin, Pol Pot nor Saddam,
nor even a common street felon;
( i.e., insofar as I am aware,
we have no accounts from armed robbers, nor murderers )

Therefore, we have no data upon which to predict
what will happen to any heavy duty bad guy.

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Is there some criteria -
or is everyone who shows up at the gate let through?

The undisputed consensus
is that on Judgment Day, the decedent himself is the judge.
The Judgment is made in the presence of a superintelligent Being of Light,
who urges u not to be too hard on yourself.
The decedent judges his life by 2 criteria:
1. Love
and
2. Learning.
( Some decedents have reported seeing, so to speak,
out of the corner of their eyes, some earlier incarnate lives of theirs. )

The decedent judges his incarnate life
( which he sees the same as a cinematic actor,
who observes his day 's work
[ I believe thay call it " the rushes " ] on movie film,
as he sees himself going hither n yon, uphill n down dale,
interacting with his fellow beings.

Some have said that thay felt the pain that thay 'd inflicted upon others,
and also ( as a secondary effect ) upon people with whom
their victims related.
For instance one Tom Sawyer
reported seeing a re-play of his slugging someone in the mouth
at the scene of a vehicular collision.
He described feeling NOT ONLY
the pain in his hand from contact with the mouth in question,
but also the pain in his victim 's aforesaid mouth.

BEYOND THAT, he reported feeling the negative emotion
resulting in who were NOT at the scence of this violence;
to wit,
10-year-old junior cannot get the bike he expected for his birthday,
because his dad had to tap the family 's funds
for emergency relief from the family 's dentist.
Accordingly,
I EXTRAPOLATED that if u empathicly feel the pain of your victims,
during your life re-vu, then
u shud also feel the joy that u inflict upon others.
Hence, I have adopted a hobby of rendering acts of unexpected benevolence;
( for instance, at the recent Colloquium of some hundreds
of Mensans in Albany, to study Cosmolgy, and the reconciliation
of Quantum Mechanics with Relativity Theory,
I saw some boys [ around ten years old ] playing with each other,
in front of the audience
( during breaks in the proceedings ); I threw out some dimes n quarters
to them, on the carpet of the Colloquium, on the ballroom floor,
where we held the proceedings, in the morning and again
in the afternoon, in hope of breaking up the monotony )

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Your ideology is the source
from which u draw your choices on Election Day.

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That's what I mean, I draw my choices from my hopes for our country and society and those don't fit neatly into any established political party
(at least not in the US)...I don't really have very much faith in our government David.
I think I tend to be a little morally conservative, in that I do believe very strongly in personal responsibility and individual integrity.
I'm probably fiscally liberal (don't get mad now - I can picture my father blowing a gasket here...)

I have no reason for anger.

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in that I'm a fairly generous person, so although I'm not a spendthrift for myself, I'm kind of like you - I don't mind the concept of spreading the wealth around, although I don't at all advocate profligate or unnecessary spending - in fact I hate that tendency.
Environmentally, I'm aware and concerned - so I think that would put me more squarely in the liberal camp.

Conservatives r not against the Environment.
Their vu depends upon what is at issue.
Thay 'd not agree with the liberal vu
that if u r fishing in some lake or river
and a bear or a cougar attacks u in furtherance
of his culinary desires, that it shud be illegal for u
to kill him in self-defense, but other issues can be free
for consideration, depending on what thay r.

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Educationally, I see merits in both conservative and more liberal philosophies.

Care to elucidate, with examples ?

Quote:

I can't really pin myself down.

I have a question though - are libertarians considered conservative?

Thay r by ME,
in that thay seek to conserve
the US Constitution, which was drawn as an instrument of liberty,
relative to government of the past.

It is an instrument of liberty
in that it disables government from doing a lot of things,
set forth in the textual body of the Constitution of 1787,
as well as in its Bill of Rights, ratified in 1791.
Liberty and
the domestic power of government
are INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL.
Thus, by conserving an instrument of liberty,
conservatives r libertarian.
I am moven to add,
upon the basis of my observation
at many meetings of libertarians,
that thay r a very heterogeneous n dispate bunch of fellows.
For instance,
when 6-year-old Elian Gonzalez sought freedom in America,
after his mother drowned on her way from Cuba,
the consensus of those libertarians
was that he shud be FORCED to go back to his communist father,
despite his expressed wishes to live here in Freedom,
the same as if the father were endeavoring to retrieve
the family horse who 'd escaped.
I was taken aback by their deviation
from the filosofy of freedom.

Quote:

That's always been my impression but when I actually look more deeply into some of their philosophies, their core values seem to fit more neatly into what I'd consider a more liberal viewpoint. What's your take on that?

We need to carefully define our terms, here
because " liberal " means the opposite of " liberal "
in another sense;
( I have in mind that a CLASSICAL LIBERAL like Adam Smith,
is the diametrical opposite, of a Kennedy liberal ).

Liberal means NOT CONSERVATIVE;
( e.g., suppose u hire a man to paint 5 rooms
for $200 a day, doing 8 hours of work per day
for a specific number of days and u 've paid him up front.
If he applies a conservative vu of the contract,
he 'll just do the job exactly as u 've both agreed in the contract,
but if he takes a liberal vu of the contract,
he 'll show up late n leave early, give u only 3 painted rooms,
and a sob story. His motto is " that 's close enuf. "

A conservative vu of any agreement
is an inflexible, rigid application of doing what was agreed,
with no changes; e.g., a conservative playing poker will faithfully apply
all of its rules.
A liberal ( meaning liberal as to the rules of poker )
will endeavor to take the pot, alleging a flush
when he has 4 spades and a club, alleging " that 's close enuf;
don t be too technical. Have a heart."
In other words,
the concept of liberalism, depends for its existence
upon DEVIATION from what was ageed,
whereas conservatism is inflexible adherence to the agreement,
whatever it may be.
If that agreement is an instrument of FREEDOM,
then liberal deviation therefrom is anti-freedom
( perhaps alleging that it is best to subordinate freedom
to a contrived equality, for example ).

A Classical LIberal is liberal in that he deviates
from support of monarchy, in favor of personal freedom of the
individual citizen.
A modern day Keynesian Roosevelt-Kennedy liberal
is liberal in that he deviates from the Constitution's LIMITS
upon the domestic power of government,
in that thay wish to use the brute power of domestic government
to help their favorite: the poor, at the expense of the rich,
ignoring the immorality of robbing the rich or of robbing anyone.

A sartorial liberal may insist upon wearing white sneakers
with his black tuxedo, deviating from the sartorial paradigm,
whereas a sartorial conservative will inflexibly adhere
to the extant clothing style.
Questions r welcome.

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I have posted it,
using an 8th grade test from 1895
to contrast with current educational standards.
Lemme know what u think ?
How well wud your students do on it ?

I saw that. David, my students, some of whom are adults, are struggling to read what would be first grade primers for those students in Kansas in l895. Seriously, I'm working with young men, some of whom have never attended a day of school in their lives (travelers, etc.). So we're working on the basics, like how to use a dictionary, memorizing multiplication facts, etc. I know it sound rudimentary, and might sound boring to you, but it is so rewarding. These guys were so excited to learn how to use a dictionary. Can you imagine what a whole new world that opens up to them? It's very, very enjoyable for me to be able to be a part of and witness.

Anyway - I wouldn't be able to pass that test. But I've made it my goal to be able to by the end of this school year. I'm going to print it out and work on it task by task. I'd like to be able to have such in depth knowledge on such a range of topics.
Do you have the key (answers to the test) so you can check my work in June, after I've prepared myself for the exam? If not, you'll have to make one up- which brings me to the question - do you know all of that information off the top of your head? Pretty impressive if you do.

Quote:

I have yet to post the other one;
been distracted by Time-Warner Cable technician
coming to upgrade the resolution of my Hi Definition TV
and to attach my new DVD recorder.
I have a lot of technical intricacy to master.

Hope you enjoy it.

Quote:

With my King dog story,
all the wolves,
and your dog to be forthcoming,
the canines r well represented on this thread.

What would we do without them - they're the best (in my opinion).

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Interesting story about your friend Joyce.
One's first love just never quite leaves your consciousness, do they?

That appears to be the case.

Quote:

You should call her David, if she's still around.

No.
She ordered me not to do that,
during our last fone conversation,
a few decades ago.
I have remained in full compliance therewith.

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She'd probably love to get together and talk about old school days, etc.
I know I'd be delighted if my first big crush, (this kid named Scott),
or any of my old boyfriends, for that matter were to touch base with me
at this point. It's be so fun to sit and rehash old times.

Just don't let on that you were obsessed with her.

Too late; I already did that.
I had been obsessed with declaring my genuine feelings.
I 'd felt low self-esteem for having earlier failed
to do so.

Quote:

That might scare her a little.

That already happened, on the fone
several decades ago.

Quote:

Although I think most of us go through that with one person or another.
I know there've been two people in my life whom I've found it really,
really hard to emotionally release, long after the relationship was over.
I think to a point, it's normal.

Have a good Sunday - enjoy your tv and dvd.

Yes; I have now been restored to my ability
to record.

Quote:

What kind of movies do you like?

I can 't point to a particular genre.

I enjoyed :
2001, A Space Odysey
Ghost,
Star Trek movies
Star Wars movies
Dances With Wolves,
The Re-Incarnation of Peter Proud
Terminators I n II
Gone With the Wind,
Some Jodie Foster movies
Resurrection
The People
The Highlander movies
Saving Private Ryan
Jurasic Park 1 n 2
Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind
Jaws
The Patriot
Tora, Tora, Tora
The Battle of the Bulge
The Halliluya Trail
Death Wish ( Charles Bronson ) movies
Dirty Harry ( starring a .44 magnum revolver )
The Gangs of NY
Red Dawn
ET
Indiana Jones movies

Cher 's Do U Believe Tour, at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas

many others

Quote:

David - I just wrote this really long response to your post and lost it somehow.

I 've been a victim of that too, going back to Abuzz.
I remember how painful that was.

Your computer clipboard
can be a defense from that.

Another possibility is to write
responses in your word processing program,
then cut n paste them into A2K.

Quote:

Should I try again?

Yes.
Please.

Quote:

I posted the lyrics to that song and everything.
Maybe I'll try to post a condensed version later.
You'd probably appreciate that anyway.

Yes

Quote:

But you had a lot of interesting stuff in this last one.
I was most interested in responding to your posts on liberalism and conservatism and libertarianism.

I 'll look forward to it.
David

Yeah; I liked her
n did not begrudge her the tiny
cash contributions.

But the point is, I told him - "If you needed money, you should have just asked me.
I would have given it to you if I had it,"

I 've been informed by a Mensan captain in the NYPD
that criminals ofen do consumately stupid things
( like rob stores in their own neighborhoods,
where everyone knows them and knows where thay live ).

Quote:

I empathize, and try to sympathize, but I soon tire of complainers
and whiners and so don't choose them as friends, and can certainly never
imagine choosing a negative, pessimistic person as a life partner.

Agreed.
My dead friend, Neil, was like that.
Very clever, and full of jokes
( as well as many plethoras of adventures ).

Quote:

Some folks ( including some M.D.s ) assert that cancer
is suicidal; i.e., the manifestation of an unwillingness
to continue to exist in the extant circumstances,
or, in other cases, that it is a self-punitive subconscious decision,
but NOT an irretrievable committment.

Quote:

Do you believe this?

Yes, yes, and yes.

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There's this song I've known for a year or so that I really like,

Maybe " Ode to JOY " ?

Quote:

It's about a radio operator, airing communications from the past and future - pretty interesting.

I 'll look forward to it.

Quote:

Yeah, but who gets to go? Everyone?

Well, we 've gotten some bad reports
from atheists and suicides.
However, thay 've also said that upon
application ( yelling ) for forgiveness,
help was forthcoming.

A friendly acquaintance of mine
is emotionally aggressive about her Jewish atheism.
She has exhibited some moderately energetic vocal
intolerance to any contemplation, even indirectly,
of opinion concerning the existence of a Deity.
I 'd like to tip her off
to the problems mentioned by said atheists,
but I doubt that she 'd willingly listen to it.[/b][/color][/size]

Altho our reservoir of data
includes 1000s of accounts,
the WORST that we 've had is a few petty crooks;
no one like Stalin, Pol Pot nor Saddam,
nor even a common street felon;
( i.e., insofar as I am aware,
we have no accounts from armed robbers, nor murderers )

Is there some criteria -
or is everyone who shows up at the gate let through?

Liberal means NOT CONSERVATIVE;
( e.g., suppose u hire a man to paint 5 rooms
for $200 a day, doing 8 hours of work per day
for a specific number of days and u 've paid him up front.
If he applies a conservative vu of the contract,
he 'll just do the job exactly as u 've both agreed in the contract,
but if he takes a liberal vu of the contract,
he 'll show up late n leave early, give u only 3 painted rooms,
and a sob story. His motto is " that 's close enuf. "

A conservative vu of any agreement
is an inflexible, rigid application of doing what was agreed,
with no changes; e.g., a conservative playing poker will faithfully apply
all of its rules.

A liberal ( meaning liberal as to the rules of poker )
will endeavor to take the pot, alleging a flush
when he has 4 spades and a club, alleging " that 's close enuf;
don t be too technical. Have a heart."

A Classical LIberal is liberal in that he deviates
from support of monarchy, in favor of personal freedom of the
individual citizen.

A modern day Keynesian Roosevelt-Kennedy liberal
is liberal in that he deviates from the Constitution's LIMITS
upon the domestic power of government,
in that thay wish to use the brute power of domestic government
to help their favorite: the poor, at the expense of the rich,
ignoring the immorality of robbing the rich or of robbing anyone.

Just don't let on that you were obsessed with her.

That might scare her a little.

Quote:

What kind of movies do you like?

I can 't point to a particular genre.

Quote:

I'm going to try again. I'll try to remember the gist - but work on conciseness this time.

OK
I will use red letters
in an effort to distinguish
my writing from yours.

Quote:

Yeah; I liked her
n did not begrudge her the tiny
cash contributions.

Quote:

Even though she was a LIBERAL?
That's reassuring David. I was beginning to wonder...

I never implied that we shud be nasty
to liberals, in our treatment of them.

I am only saying that deviating from
one 's committment to a person,
without the consent of the person
whose rights r not being honored is morally rong.
I did not say
that the offending liberal shud necessarily be harmed,
or held to account; maybe.

If u were the judge of a court of law
and a plaintiff sues someone for failing
to carry out his contractual duty,
and the defendant applies to the court
for a liberal interpretation of that duty
to be applied,
then u have to decide who is right
and what to do about it.

Quote:

But the point is, I told him - "If you needed money, you should have just asked me.
I would have given it to you if I had it,"

I can certainly understand your state-of-mind.
I 'd have given it to him, too.

I have done that, sometimes.

I knew you were a good guy.

I 've been informed by a Mensan captain in the NYPD
that criminals ofen do consumately stupid things
( like rob stores in their own neighborhoods,
where everyone knows them and knows where thay live ).

I think I wrote something here about the motivation behind doing something like this.
It reminded me of Reverend Haggard in Colorado.
I think that guy was just dying for the relief of having his secret life exposed,
so he didn't have to live a lie anymore.

In the case of garden variety criminals though,
maybe they just want to place to live -
or maybe they're just not very bright.

Quote:

Some folks ( including some M.D.s ) assert that cancer
is suicidal; i.e., the manifestation of an unwillingness
to continue to exist in the extant circumstances,
or, in other cases, that it is a self-punitive subconscious decision,
but NOT an irretrievable committment.

Quote:

Do you believe this?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Why do you believe this?
Can you explain? (I'm interested).

Quote:
There's this song I've known for a year or so that I really like,

Maybe " Ode to JOY " ?

Funny David - are you taking the piss out of me?

Quote:

It's about a radio operator, airing communications from the past and future - pretty interesting.

I 'll look forward to it.

I have to type out the lyrics because they're not on any lyric website yet - not well-known enough I guess- so anyway I hope you appreciate this:
Radio Operator (Roseanne Cash)

Radio Operator, in a tiny foreign room
We can hear you, now and later,
calling out and coming through.
Radio Operator, you're a boy so far from home
with a signal, like a heartbeat
not afraid, but so alone.
Where are the messages for me?
The secret code, the parts unknown?
I'll ride the signal to the world
And to the girl in San Antone.
Radio Operator, do you ever think of me?
I'm a gleam on some horizon
just too far away to see.
Radio Operator, there are still messages to send.
From the future, from the present
And it never has to end
Radio Operator, I am calling like a friend
From my future, from my memory
And it never has to end.
This message will not end.

I think she's writing this song for her father (Johnny Cash) and expressing the fact that she still feels his presence and that he is in communication with her.

It's a great song (if you like her- I always have- she's a good writer and I like her voice and musical sensibilities).

Anyway - I've started interpreting that song entirely differently now David. I used to picture some person driving on a Texas road, picking up a radio signal from some distant town.

Now, I'm not so sure that's what it's about...

Quote:

Yeah, but who gets to go? Everyone?

Well, we 've gotten some bad reports
from atheists and suicides.
However, thay 've also said that upon
application ( yelling ) for forgiveness,
help was forthcoming.

Do you mean there have been reports from people
who've tried to commit suicide and were revived?

A friendly acquaintance of mine
is emotionally aggressive about her Jewish atheism.
She has exhibited some moderately energetic vocal
intolerance to any contemplation, even indirectly,
of opinion concerning the existence of a Deity.
I 'd like to tip her off
to the problems mentioned by said atheists,
but I doubt that she 'd willingly listen to it.[/b][/color][/size]

Maybe if she doesn't feel the need for a god,
she has no need for an afterlife either.

Altho our reservoir of data
includes 1000s of accounts,
the WORST that we 've had is a few petty crooks;
no one like Stalin, Pol Pot nor Saddam,
nor even a common street felon;
( i.e., insofar as I am aware,
we have no accounts from armed robbers, nor murderers )

Why is that?

Has that population not been included in the sample for some reason.

I'd think that'd be a really interesting population to interview
in terms of this.

Is there some criteria -
or is everyone who shows up at the gate let through?

Interesting, sounds fair-
almost kind of more lenient than you'd expect.

Conservatives r not against the Environment.
Their vu depends upon what is at issue.
Thay 'd not agree with the liberal vu
that if u r fishing in some lake or river
and a bear or a cougar attacks u in furtherance
of his culinary desires, that it shud be illegal for u
to kill him in self-defense, but other issues can be free
for consideration, depending on what thay r.

That's not one of the liberal environmental policies I'm familiar with.

I have to stand firm on the fact that I do believe that conservative policy, in general, seems more often to fail to recognize the environment as a priority, than do more liberal political parties.

Quote:

Educationally, I see merits in both conservative and more liberal philosophies.

Care to elucidate, with examples ?

Can we make this one post on its own

[/b][/color]
I am moven to add,
upon the basis of my observation
at many meetings of libertarians,
that thay r a very heterogeneous n disparate bunch of fellows.

For instance,
when 6-year-old Elian Gonzalez sought freedom in America,
after his mother drowned on her way from Cuba,
the consensus of those libertarians
was that he shud be FORCED to go back to his communist father,
despite his expressed wishes to live here in Freedom,
the same as if the father were endeavoring to retrieve
the family horse who 'd escaped.
I was taken aback by their deviation
from the filosofy of freedom.[/b]

I found this really interesting.
I was wondering what the most commonly accepted libertarian stance
on immigration is, and if that affected their view on this situation.

Liberal means NOT CONSERVATIVE;
( e.g., suppose u hire a man to paint 5 rooms
for $200 a day, doing 8 hours of work per day
for a specific number of days and u 've paid him up front.
If he applies a conservative vu of the contract,
he 'll just do the job exactly as u 've both agreed in the contract,
but if he takes a liberal vu of the contract,
he 'll show up late n leave early, give u only 3 painted rooms,
and a sob story. His motto is " that 's close enuf. "

That's condescending- and over simplified David-
and not always true.

A conservative vu of any agreement
is an inflexible, rigid application of doing what was agreed,
with no changes; e.g., a conservative playing poker will faithfully apply
all of its rules.

This is also condescending and over simplified.

Would a conservative not see the need for flexibility
if some extant circumstance arose?

Wouldn't that make him or her illogical and almost stupid?

A liberal ( meaning liberal as to the rules of poker )
will endeavor to take the pot, alleging a flush
when he has 4 spades and a club, alleging " that 's close enuf;
don t be too technical. Have a heart."

So you believe that all people
who have liberal political beliefs are dishonest cheats?

A Classical LIberal is liberal in that he deviates
from support of absolute monarchy,
in favor of personal freedom of the
individual citizen.

So is this most closely aligned to the libertarian view?

A modern day Keynesian Roosevelt-Kennedy liberal
is liberal in that he deviates from the Constitution's LIMITS
upon the domestic power of government,
in that thay wish to use the brute power of domestic government
to help their favorite: the poor, at the expense of the rich,
ignoring the immorality of robbing the rich or of robbing anyone.

Couldn't you consider the poor to be not the favorite,
but the most in need?

Doesn't it make sense to help those who need help first,
and doesn't this imply practicality instead of favoritism?

A sartorial liberal may insist upon wearing white sneakers
with his black tuxedo, deviating from the sartorial paradigm,
whereas a sartorial conservative will inflexibly adhere
to the extant clothing style.[/b][/color]
Questions r welcome.

What about someone who doesn't adhere
to the extant posting style of a forum?

Are you a sartorial liberal poster, David?

(just joking).
In my opinion a little individuality is always a good thing.

Rigidity is stifling to me.

I guess that means I wouldn't make a good conservative.

So how does libertarianism with its emphasis on individual freedom
fit into the rigid, inflexible conservative camp?

Just don't let on that you were obsessed with her.

That might scare her a little.

Sorry to hear that.

Quote:

What kind of movies do you like?

I can 't point to a particular genre.

That is quite an eclectic list.
The only one I haven't heard of is "The People".
What is that about.

I saw a movie I liked today- The Prestige. I thought it was an interesting story.
I'll have to watch it again to catch all the nuances,
as I was left with questions at the end,
but I liked it enough to watch it again. interesting story,