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Freedom FROM religion

 
 
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 09:48 am
Would we all be better off if, instead of our having freedom of religion, we were to have freedom from religion?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 8,615 • Replies: 228
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 09:50 am
Oh, if only! Very Happy
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 11:37 am
Re: Freedom FROM religion
neologist wrote:
Would we all be better off if, instead of our having freedom of religion, we were to have freedom from religion?


I like the way you think. Yes, we would all be better off.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:12 pm
I can't imagine how it would be implemented. Would churches be outlawed because every time I drive past one it forces me to confront the fact that people use it for religion?

I'm not religious, but it seems like any "freedom from religion" idea would be either toothless or result in religious people relegated to practicing their religion in basements and back rooms, which I don't wish on anyone.
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:18 pm
sozobe wrote:
I can't imagine how it would be implemented. Would churches be outlawed because every time I drive past one it forces me to confront the fact that people use it for religion?

I'm not religious, but it seems like any "freedom from religion" idea would be either toothless or result in religious people relegated to practicing their religion in basements and back rooms, which I don't wish on anyone.


I think what we are going for is that religion should never be forced on anyone either directly or through legislation. It does not mean religion is eliminated.

At least that is how I am taking the poster.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:18 pm
I think we are already free from religion. I don't take strong drink--but it doesn't bother me to drive past a bar, and to know that people are getting high in there.

But no one has the right to come into my home and make me drink whiskey. Equally, no one has the right to make me attend divine service, or to listen to their religious rant. This is a problem for some people on the religious right, who claim their rights are infringed by not being allowed to proclaim their religious creed in the course of public, state-sponsored events. But that's their problem, not mine.

Before i became active online, i went from one year to another without ever discussing religion with anyone (and usually without discussing politics, either). It is still true that religion does not impinge on my daily life when i'm not online talking to nut cases like Neo--hey, buddy, is the coffee pot on?

I think we are free from religion, and it should stay that way.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:28 pm
The topic has been formally presented on the world stage without result as discussed HERE.
It is still on the minds of many, however; and a war of politics against religion is the theme of Revelation chapter 17 and 18.

There is still cofee in the pot, Set. I was beginning to miss you.

HEHEH
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:34 pm
Yeah, I hadn't seen that specific thing but it was part of my visceral reaction -- that the whole "freedom FROM religion" thing is most often used as a scare tactic. I don't endorse it, and I don't think that there is or should be any war between politics and religion. Separation of church and state is a good thing for all involved, IMO -- but their separation doesn't have to indicate any conflict.

I like Set's take, and don't see any reason why the current state of affairs should be amended to allow religious people "to proclaim their religious creed in the course of public, state-sponsored events."
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Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:37 pm
Re: Freedom FROM religion
neologist wrote:
Would we all be better off if, instead of our having freedom of religion, we were to have freedom from religion?


That's impossible.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:47 pm
Re: Freedom FROM religion
Mindonfire wrote:
neologist wrote:
Would we all be better off if, instead of our having freedom of religion, we were to have freedom from religion?


That's impossible.


Why?
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:50 pm
It's interesting that even with freedom of religion that some government authority must determine what constitutes a religion.
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:51 pm
Setanta wrote:
I think we are already free from religion. I don't take strong drink--but it doesn't bother me to drive past a bar, and to know that people are getting high in there.

But no one has the right to come into my home and make me drink whiskey. Equally, no one has the right to make me attend divine service, or to listen to their religious rant. This is a problem for some people on the religious right, who claim their rights are infringed by not being allowed to proclaim their religious creed in the course of public, state-sponsored events. But that's their problem, not mine.

Before i became active online, i went from one year to another without ever discussing religion with anyone (and usually without discussing politics, either). It is still true that religion does not impinge on my daily life when i'm not online talking to nut cases like Neo--hey, buddy, is the coffee pot on?

I think we are free from religion, and it should stay that way.



couldn't have said it better myself
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:54 pm
I agree with the popular opinion, so far, that any attempt to outlaw religion would fail. It might even be disastrous.

However, I do think that we (any "we" you wish) would be much better off without religion. Like Jesus (may have) said, "The truth will set you free."
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 01:00 pm
You know, I might consider supporting legislation aimed at protecting children from religious indoctrination. What do y'all think?
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 01:10 pm
echi wrote:
You know, I might consider supporting legislation aimed at protecting children from religious indoctrination. What do y'all think?


interesting, i'd be more inclined to advocate religious instruction in schools, but purely from a social studies type of curiculam, cover all aspects of all religions, popular and unpopular (ie wicca), warts (ie the inquisistion) and all

give kids being railroaded in one direction or another some fresh info to digest
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 01:13 pm
To me, freedom from religion would constitute:

No tax breaks for religious groups.

Remove the words. "under god" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Christmas should not be a government holiday, but private companies could give their staff a day off if many of their employees celebrated Christmas.

No swearing on the bible in courts, or invocations in government ceremonies.

I have no problem with people practicing their religion in the private sphere; homes, houses of worship, and the like. I DO have a problem when the goverment gets involved, on any level.


For the record, at one time I ran a yearly dinner for my community group. There are many people who are religious in my community, and I would ask one the the neighbors to offer an invocation. I knew that many of the people would like that. That was a private choice on my part.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 04:46 pm
djjd62 wrote:
echi wrote:
You know, I might consider supporting legislation aimed at protecting children from religious indoctrination. What do y'all think?


interesting, i'd be more inclined to advocate religious instruction in schools, but purely from a social studies type of curiculam, cover all aspects of all religions, popular and unpopular (ie wicca), warts (ie the inquisistion) and all

give kids being railroaded in one direction or another some fresh info to digest



Perfect.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 05:25 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
To me, freedom from religion would constitute:

No tax breaks for religious groups.

Agree.

Quote:
Remove the words. "under god" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Agree.

Quote:
Christmas should not be a government holiday, but private companies could give their staff a day off if many of their employees celebrated Christmas.
Disagree. Let's keep Santa and lose Jesus Christ.

Quote:
No swearing on the bible in courts, or invocations in government ceremonies.

Agree.

Quote:
I have no problem with people practicing their religion in the private sphere; homes, houses of worship, and the like. I DO have a problem when the goverment gets involved, on any level.

Well, I do have a problem with people practicing their religion, but I absolutely would oppose making it illegal. Unfortunately, people can't be forced to do what they can't do.

Quote:
For the record, at one time I ran a yearly dinner for my community group. There are many people who are religious in my community, and I would ask one the the neighbors to offer an invocation. I knew that many of the people would like that. That was a private choice on my part.[/b]


Dang, you sound like a superhero. I need some of that. Christmas is coming... What if this is the year my Grandma finally gets the nerve to ask if I'd like to say the blessing?




"uuuuuhhhhhhhhh..., no. thanks." Sad
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 05:51 pm
And keep religion out of science. Evolution is reality. Creationism is not.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 05:48 am
Quote:
Disagree. Let's keep Santa and lose Jesus Christ.


I don't mind Jesus Christ, but not on taxpayer supported buildings. I don't think that ANY religious symbols should be on government (which also means government supported) buildings. If you want to stick a creche or a menorah in front of your house, IMO, that is your perogative. (unless you live in a community association that does not allow those sorts of things)
0 Replies
 
 

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