Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 12:10 pm
I read this and thought it would be nice to discuss a nice fresh topic that doesn't scandalize our current president.

Quote:
Christopher Ruddy
Tuesday, June 10, 2003
Despite the media frenzy helping to put Hillary's new book, "Living History," onto the best-seller lists, her PR efforts have backfired on her political ambitions.


The intent of Hillary's "Living History" was to rewrite history and create a fairy tale version of her life with Bill Clinton - a story that would mask her and her husband's greedy climb to power.


The purpose of this rewrite of history was also clear: to recreate Hillary as her own "lady" - a viable presidential candidate of her own.


But the publicity so far for "Living History" indicates that she and her handlers may have badly misjudged public opinion.


For one thing, the book has reminded Americans that she was, and remains, in the shadow of her husband, an impeached former president.


Bill Clinton's coattails did not work well for Al Gore, who should have glided into the White House in 2000.


Gore lost, and press reports say that Gore and his wife, Tipper, blamed Clinton and his scandal-riddled administration for the loss.


Watching Barbara Walters, one might believe that the Clinton "scandals" were all about sex. During my years covering the Clinton White House, I never reported on Clinton's bedroom politics.


But the litany of real Clinton scandals are almost endless: Travelgate, Vince Foster's death and office cover-up, Waco, Whitewater, Madison Guaranty, Chinagate, Lippogate, illegal fund raising, Cattlefutures-gate, Ron Brown's death, pardongate and on and on.


Even the so-called "sex scandal" was really no such thing: The scandal was about a sexual harassment lawsuit and the Clintons' efforts to obstruct justice in that case.


As it turned out, it was a minor scandal, but one a very timid and inept prosecutor named Ken Starr latched onto.


While Hillary and her husband were never indicted, it is outrageous for her to claim, and for reporters like Barbara Walters to meekly accept, that the investigations "never found anything."


As it turned out, dozens of the Clintons' aides and associates had to resign, were indicted, went to jail or were referred for criminal indictment.


Hillary would like to whitewash this chapter in her and her husband's history.


But her new book does serve to imbed in the public's mind that Hillary Clinton, both as first lady and now as senator, was upstaged by a White House intern named Monica Lewinsky.


This book gave Hillary a tremendous opportunity. It was time for her to have the public forget about Monica and focus on her own achievements.


Instead, Hillary put Monica back into the headlines, with all of Bill's women problems.


For sure, Hillary is smarter and more disciplined than her husband. It was clear to me, during my years covering the Clintons, that she actually ran the White House. Bill Clinton was too busy with other matters, as the Monica transcripts so well demonstrated.


The spin from this book should have been a repositioning of Hillary. It should have revealed her as the gray power behind her husband - and by doing so, subtly suggesting to the American people that she, too, could be president of the United States.

But Hillary bungled this one.


Even her critics must admit that Hillary has shown remarkable political skills. She helped her husband become governor of Arkansas and stay in office. She helped him win the presidency in 1992 and salvaged his presidency during his first term.

She herself then ran for Senate in a state she had no connection with - and won in a landslide, beating a well-financed Republican. Hillary even won in many Republican districts.


Make no mistake about it: Hillary is a force to be reckoned with, but her book may have just laid the groundwork for her undoing.

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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 12:38 pm
Clinton bashing a nice fresh topic? Were you out of the country 1992-2000?

Perhaps that would make this laundry list of attacks on the Clintons seem somehow fresh...
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 01:10 pm
I dont know about anyone else,but I have a problem with this book.
I am NOT Clinton bashing,but how could she write this book?
Every time she was questioned by any
Senate panel,her answers were..."I dont recall,I have no memory of that,I dont remember that"
Now she expects us to believe that she does remember? That seems like a long stretch,doesnt it?
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 02:32 pm
Now who the heck is Christopher Ruddy, I wondered as I read the above piece of yellow journalism? So I checked him out. When I found that he writes series on Vince Foster for an online reactionary journal (an Ann Coulter who left his skirt at home), I decided to go back to today's piece in the NYTimes on Hillary, which is not only more literate but more interesting and even-handed. Hey, I'm not a fan of Hillary's, but her life and even her memoirs are more complex and interesting than the Right can handle, evidently.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 02:56 pm
I wondered about Ruddy, too. Seemed odd that the article posted here doesn't mention who published it. Now we see why...

The right's never-ending animus toward Hillary Clinton never ceases to amaze me. The right now runs the country, but they can't let up. Never give an inch, guys!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 03:00 pm
Am I missing something? Are there lies or mis-representations in that article? I didn't see any, but would be open for soem to be pointed out. I thought it was an insightful peice on Shrillary's book.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 03:27 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Am I missing something? Are there lies or mis-representations in that article? I didn't see any, but would be open for soem to be pointed out. I thought it was an insightful peice on Shrillary's book.


Gimme a few minutes - I'll answer when I go home from work...just peeked in for a few, but I'll have more time later...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 03:52 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Shrillary's book.


Nice to know that the Right values civility and detachment in debate.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 03:56 pm
Yes. That pejorative reminds me of the bad old days on Abuzz. McGentrix, you tipped your hand, my man, on that one!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 04:22 pm
Just a small dig in response of "The Shrub"...Just doing my part...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 04:33 pm
mysteryman, You miss the whole point. It's not that she doesn't remember anything. What she shares in her book is classic I'm a victim plot worth 8 million bucks. I didn't even bother to watch/listen to her interview with Barbara, because I already knew that it was a sales pitch for her new book. c.i.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 04:36 pm
Touché . . . although, of course, Hillary had no choice about where she ended up, short of divorce--the Shrub was so eager for power, he went out and stole an election to get where he got.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 04:37 pm
"shrub" is that not what his family calls him?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 04:46 pm
Re: Something to chew on
McGentrix wrote:
I read this and thought it would be nice to discuss a nice fresh topic that doesn't scandalize our current president.

Quote:
Christopher Ruddy
Tuesday, June 10, 2003
Despite the media frenzy helping to put Hillary's new book, "Living History," onto the best-seller lists, her PR efforts have backfired on her political ambitions.


The intent of Hillary's "Living History" was to rewrite history and create a fairy tale version of her life with Bill Clinton - a story that would mask her and her husband's greedy climb to power.


The purpose of this rewrite of history was also clear: to recreate Hillary as her own "lady" - a viable presidential candidate of her own.


But the publicity so far for "Living History" indicates that she and her handlers may have badly misjudged public opinion.


For one thing, the book has reminded Americans that she was, and remains, in the shadow of her husband, an impeached former president.


Bill Clinton's coattails did not work well for Al Gore, who should have glided into the White House in 2000.


Gore lost, and press reports say that Gore and his wife, Tipper, blamed Clinton and his scandal-riddled administration for the loss.


Watching Barbara Walters, one might believe that the Clinton "scandals" were all about sex. During my years covering the Clinton White House, I never reported on Clinton's bedroom politics.


But the litany of real Clinton scandals are almost endless: Travelgate, Vince Foster's death and office cover-up, Waco, Whitewater, Madison Guaranty, Chinagate, Lippogate, illegal fund raising, Cattlefutures-gate, Ron Brown's death, pardongate and on and on.


Even the so-called "sex scandal" was really no such thing: The scandal was about a sexual harassment lawsuit and the Clintons' efforts to obstruct justice in that case.


As it turned out, it was a minor scandal, but one a very timid and inept prosecutor named Ken Starr latched onto.


While Hillary and her husband were never indicted, it is outrageous for her to claim, and for reporters like Barbara Walters to meekly accept, that the investigations "never found anything."


As it turned out, dozens of the Clintons' aides and associates had to resign, were indicted, went to jail or were referred for criminal indictment.


Hillary would like to whitewash this chapter in her and her husband's history.


But her new book does serve to imbed in the public's mind that Hillary Clinton, both as first lady and now as senator, was upstaged by a White House intern named Monica Lewinsky.


This book gave Hillary a tremendous opportunity. It was time for her to have the public forget about Monica and focus on her own achievements.


Instead, Hillary put Monica back into the headlines, with all of Bill's women problems.


For sure, Hillary is smarter and more disciplined than her husband. It was clear to me, during my years covering the Clintons, that she actually ran the White House. Bill Clinton was too busy with other matters, as the Monica transcripts so well demonstrated.


The spin from this book should have been a repositioning of Hillary. It should have revealed her as the gray power behind her husband - and by doing so, subtly suggesting to the American people that she, too, could be president of the United States.

But Hillary bungled this one.


Even her critics must admit that Hillary has shown remarkable political skills. She helped her husband become governor of Arkansas and stay in office. She helped him win the presidency in 1992 and salvaged his presidency during his first term.

She herself then ran for Senate in a state she had no connection with - and won in a landslide, beating a well-financed Republican. Hillary even won in many Republican districts.


Make no mistake about it: Hillary is a force to be reckoned with, but her book may have just laid the groundwork for her undoing.



...Your concern about "her undoing" is heart-wrenching.
Okay, let's go through this... The "litany of scandals"?
Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate, Vince Foster death, Troopergate. The others you mentioned were even more ludicrous.
Do any of these "scandals" have anything in common?
Yes, they all sprang from charges leveled first by conservatives, they were all investigated by as many as three IPs AND in the Press (American Spectator, LA Times, Washington Post, WSJ and NYTIMES) AND covered ad nauseum by NBC, CBS and ABC. (Dee Dee Myers was sure she was going to find something and maybe get the Pulitzer.)
... and they ALL turned out to be about nothing.
Sixty two million Federal dollars, your money, McG, went to finding out that Bill and Hillary lost money on a lake property, that people got their feelings hurt when they were let go by an incoming administration, that NO ONE's personal file had ever been mis-used, that V. Foster killed himself and that despite careful coaching and payments by Richard Scaife to three troopers, none of them could get their story straight enough to have any credence with anyone except for the people paying for the story.
What you had here was a barrage of charges, none of them true, leveled by the right wing in an attempted coupe d'etat. And it almost
worked.
Despite these distractions, and without a single Republican vote, the Clinton administration passed a tax plan that resulted in the strongest economic growth in forty five years, they passed the most sweeping Welfare changes ever, passed the toughest environmental laws since Richard Nixon formed the EPA and did it all without a federal deficit.
Was Clinton a jerk to mess around on his wife and then lie about it? No doubt.
Was he a target of an organized effort of smears by right wingers?
Anyone who still is trying to deny THAT is not dealing with the real world.

Hillary tried to rewrite history? Maybe she tried not to look like such a trusting fool by changing around the dates she knew whatever about her husband's messes. But make no mistake - Hillary didn't "put Monica back in the headlines. Hillary wrote her blasted memoirs, and the only thing the idiot media can perceive as broadcast-worthy were the passages that will tittilate the prurient, and excite the melodrama-starved. And if that's all they ask her, that's all you'll see her talk about.

If Mrs Clinton waited until she was a t death's door to publish her memoirs, there'd STILL be some bottom-trolling Clinton haters trumpeting the "evidence" they could find in the book, that would support their pitiable fixation.

And one last thing - Hillary Clinton isn't "for sure" smarter or more disciplined academically than her husband in the definitive way you make it sound. Bill Clinton was a Rhodes scholar and a notorious information-wonk, and he STILL conveys more substantive ideas about issues in 30 minutes on C-Span than the Dimson can pull off in 30 months.
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 04:48 pm
Who's Ruddy? This is from a Salt Lake City newspaper article, that starts off about boy scouts (Ruddy got that one wrong, too)...






"Another Dec. 19 article, written by Ruddy, claims the "exclusive" that Bill and Hillary Clinton are selling their Chappaqua house because their neighbors have put the home under 24-hour video surveillance on the off-chance of being able to sell something to the tabloids. His source? Anonymous sources "at some of America's most notorious supermarket tabloids" -- which, like NewsMax, are based in Florida.

These would be the same tabloids that a NewsMax article trashed a few months back as being controlled by Democrats and for writing "smear stories" about Republicans "that bounce up to the networks." But since the tabloids have joined NewsMax in making the Clintons a target, Ruddy and Co. suddenly have a different attitude toward them.

Indeed, Ruddy's article points out that "the entertainment media, especially the tabloids, have discovered a bonanza with Hillary," quoting one "tabloid insider" as saying, "Hillary is our new Lady Di." Any frequent NewsMax reader knows they have discovered the same traffic-building magic, building Hillary into the new bogeyperson for conservatives, complete with a folder of articles about her and a sub-folder to hawk NewsMax-produced tapes of an interview with a former Arkansas state trooper who says all sorts of unkind things about her. You can't accuse NewsMax of not knowing what side their bread is buttered on.

Ruddy's only other sources for this story are the New York Post gossip column and "a source close to Clinton pal Vernon Jordan" -- "

Since the pre-publication figures were tremendous, and this book is obviously going to sell, I figure the repubs are going to have all kinds of strokes and attacks. What are they complaining about? The repubs are all about money, and you'd think they would be proud to say an American author has hit it so big. Listen, they tried hard to push Bush's book, Gingrich's books, Lynn Cheney's books - nothing has come close. Some of their efforts were on the book racks at Odd Job. After being maligned for years, made fun of, hounded...oh boy! And next comes Bill's, which should sell as well.

There's a Spanish saying - "The best revenge is living well."
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 04:54 pm
mamajuana wrote:
Who's Ruddy? This is from a Salt Lake City newspaper article, that starts off about boy scouts (Ruddy got that one wrong, too)...


"Another Dec. 19 article, written by Ruddy, claims the "exclusive" that Bill and Hillary Clinton are selling their Chappaqua house because their neighbors have put the home under 24-hour video surveillance on the off-chance of being able to sell something to the tabloids. His source? Anonymous sources "at some of America's most notorious supermarket tabloids" -- which, like NewsMax, are based in Florida.

These would be the same tabloids that a NewsMax article trashed a few months back as being controlled by Democrats and for writing "smear stories" about Republicans "that bounce up to the networks." But since the tabloids have joined NewsMax in making the Clintons a target, Ruddy and Co. suddenly have a different attitude toward them.

Indeed, Ruddy's article points out that "the entertainment media, especially the tabloids, have discovered a bonanza with Hillary," quoting one "tabloid insider" as saying, "Hillary is our new Lady Di." Any frequent NewsMax reader knows they have discovered the same traffic-building magic, building Hillary into the new bogeyperson for conservatives, complete with a folder of articles about her and a sub-folder to hawk NewsMax-produced tapes of an interview with a former Arkansas state trooper who says all sorts of unkind things about her. You can't accuse NewsMax of not knowing what side their bread is buttered on.

Ruddy's only other sources for this story are the New York Post gossip column and "a source close to Clinton pal Vernon Jordan" -- "

Since the pre-publication figures were tremendous, and this book is obviously going to sell, I figure the repubs are going to have all kinds of strokes and attacks. What are they complaining about? The repubs are all about money, and you'd think they would be proud to say an American author has hit it so big. Listen, they tried hard to push Bush's book, Gingrich's books, Lynn Cheney's books - nothing has come close. Some of their efforts were on the book racks at Odd Job. After being maligned for years, made fun of, hounded...oh boy! And next comes Bill's, which should sell as well.

There's a Spanish saying - "The best revenge is living well."


Ad Hominem anyone? Why bother discussing the topic when you can so easily attack the author. Is that how you teach your children MamaJ?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 05:05 pm
Ad Hominem and politics is a marriage made in heaven. c.i.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 05:17 pm
Yeah, McG. But Ruddy really is... Cruddy. Seriously awful. Of no value to the Right or Left. Just a lousy writer out to make a dime. You can't really take this guy seriously.

And the other thing which always makes me twitch -- the inability of some to recognize complexity and embrace it. Hillary has been reductio-ed ad absurdum by those who can't deal with a real and complex person -- they've just gotta have it simple. I don't have to state again, really, that I'm not one of Hillary's fans, that I recognize in her someone of serious intelligence, courage, loyalty to someone she loves, and the stamina to withstand the cheap creeps who hassle her, and still get to be Senator and write a book. Not exactly on the same level as Mr. Ruddy.

On the other side of the equation is our pal Bush. This morning in a discussion of his latest failings his supporter, Ken Adelman, defending his honor, had the temerity to say (I'm quoting virtually verbatim): "Well, you only have to look at the man's career to know he's someone with real integrity." Hmm. And these are the people who take Hillary to task. Hmmmm.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 05:20 pm
the Bush "career" is that anything like "careen?"
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 05:23 pm
Setting aside for now the hypocricy of your throwing the charge of "ad hominem" at Ma (did you read what you posted before posting it ? ! ? ! ?), i'd be interested to know what there is in what Ma posted which can properly be described as ad hominem. This article picks apart what Ruddy wrote, but there is not a single word in there which insults or slights Ruddy. If he stands convicted on the face of it, that is most definitely not ad hominem--if he looks bad, it is because of the indefensible nature of what he wrote himself. That article is a fine example of attacking the idea, and not the person.

By contrast:

Quote:
. . . a story that would mask her and her husband's greedy climb to power.


Patently, undeniably (except by the most self-deluded) an ad hominem attack.

Quote:
. . . The scandal was about a sexual harassment lawsuit and the Clintons' efforts to obstruct justice in that case.


Another ad hominem, and were the Clintons the lowlife types the author attempts to infer, they'd have him against the wall for this libelous passage in a heartbeat. That they don't respond to viturperation of this kind is a measure of the extent to which they can rise above the slime. Obstruction of justice is an actionable offense; to accuse someone of having committed a crime is grounds for a civil suit, and in a civil case, Ruddy would be obliged to prove that the Clinton's knowlingly committed the crime of obstruction, and be obliged to do so without subpeona powers which are enjoyed by prosecutors. Fortunate for him that the Clintons show that nobility which prevents them from noticing slanderous charges.

Quote:
For sure, Hillary is smarter and more disciplined than her husband. It was clear to me, during my years covering the Clintons, that she actually ran the White House. Bill Clinton was too busy with other matters, as the Monica transcripts so well demonstrated.


Apart from being the latest dispatch from cloud cuckoo land, this is an invidious slur, and certainly constitutes ad hominem technique.

Quote:
She herself then ran for Senate in a state she had no connection with - and won in a landslide, beating a well-financed Republican. Hillary even won in many Republican districts.


I had to add this one because it just cracks me up. What was the point of this--more of the strained attempt to paint her as the éminence grise in the Clinton administration? (Apparently, Ruddy wasn't sufficiently confident of the comprehension of his intended audience, or was insufficiently educated himself--and so used the absurdly clumsy locution "gray power.") I wonder if Mr. Ruddy feels the same way about Jeb Bush as governor of Florida, or Senator John Rockefeller (hmm, is he one of the "West Virginia Rockefellers?")--in short, a double standard on the topic of who ought to hold office in any particular state.

Ruddy's piece is a work of purely hateful tripe, and reeks of the ad hominem technique, one of the weakest, and surely the most scurrilous, in the rhetorical arsenal. In contrast, the article Ma posted takes his allegations to pieces, without a single remark about Ruddy's character. That article is model of how to deal with the guttersnipe press without stooping to that level.
0 Replies
 
 

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