Does "Bush bashing" bother you?

Scrat,

Are you saying your opinion of president Bush is better rooted in fact?

Seems to me that it's a subjective difference of opinion about the same facts.

Have another Pabst Blue Ribbon, scrat.

I will continue to exercise my right of free speech and express my feelings relative to Mr. Bush up to and until they pass an amendment prohibiting it. Isn't that the latest ploy laws by amendment.

We are a less civil society now than we were 30 years ago?

Really?

Lynchings, separate drinking fountains and pools so the darkies don't infect the whites, separate and unequal, hatred based on race and sex, Jim Crow laws considered perfectly justified and legal? People rioting and burning things because they feel their government is oppressing them? Native Americans not even getting the right to be a citizen until the 1970s? Women held in subordinate positions until the 70s? Back of the bus, blacks need not apply, or can't eat in this restaurant, or live in this neighborhood, or marry anyone they want....

All that was more civil than today, eh?

Sorry, but this one distortion of truth invalidates everything else stated.

America is REMARKABLE civil nowadays. It defies explanation considering our history of intolerance and oppression of others.

Sure, people are bashing Bush, but no one is taking shots at him, now are they? Plenty of examples of this kind of uncivil conduct even in the recent past.

Sure, prejudice is alive and well still, and it isn't likely to evaporate off the face of the planet any time soon, but despite that, and for all the hugeness of our civilization, it's amazing that riots and burnings aren't breaking out all over this country. If anything, we are all exercising incredible restraint.

I love this kind of interaction with people. But I wish people would exercise a little more truth and a little less manipulation of the data and the facts to suit their own purposes. Altering reality doesn't make you right, or intelligent, or persuasive, for that matter. The only thing that rings true, and finds support is the truth of things, not your twisted version of them.

Think about it. It would be to your own benefit to deal in truth instead of spin. But you spin, spin, spin, and apparently don't even realize how dizzy you are.

That has to be what is wrong with this country....the ease with which Americans will lie and obfuscate for personal gain.

"The President of the country is granted wide and important powers under the Constitution."

This is not true. The executive branch in the Constitution has very few and very specific powers. The wide powers alluded to have come AFTER the Constitution through executive orders and decrees. The original office was the weakest of the three. Federal government is supposed to oversee the other branches, not rule over them.

Ash distorts history in horribly blatant ways. You would be foolish to trust his advice. I could pick apart the many fallacies he offers us as truth, but what's the point? You are going to believe them anyway if you are inclined to do so, because you can't see through his spin. So be it.

Jackson opened up the political process in this country in the 1820s, and more people than ever were allowed to vote for the first time, while politicians had to start running instead of standing for office. As a result of this process of more direct democracy, America exploded on the scene and advanced so rapidly it led to us ending up on top of everyone else by the end of WW II.

But Ash would have you think it is a destructive force.
Ash is the destructive force.

I wish for a return of the Federalist Party., Ash says.

The Federalists wanted a strong central authority ruling over everyone else. They wanted free economy to exploit peasant masses as much as they wanted. They wanted hierarchy and strict class structure, where the peasant base at the bottom supports and defers to the elite minority at the top. They saw science as dangerous and "green" as in untried and untrue, and they advocated against all scientific advancement in favor of strict traditionalism such as existed in the decadent old world at the time, which meant huge industry, squalid inner cities, labor with no power and no voice, no benefits, no protections, hell, no lunch break, 12 hour days, no heat, no days off, no vacations, etc...

This is what Ash wants?

Even worse, he already freaking has it. The Federalist Society was reborn in 1982, and although 52 % of our congressmen call themselves democrats or republicans, they are in fact federalists. This is why they make pledges and do something entirely different. They are pledging democratic or republican ideas, and then enacting federalist ones. Bush's admin alone has seen the most dramatic increase of power for the central authority than at any other time in the history of our country.

This is what Ash wants.

The Federalists were laughed out of power by 1823, and it will happen again, because their ideology has no bearing whatsoever with the world of 1776 or the world of 2004.

Ash may well get what he wants, but he won't like how it turns out. He can wrap himself in the flag all he wants, but the simple truth will expose him for the "loyalist" he is....and that isn't saying he is an American, not at all. It's saying he is a traitor to all that is America.

You see, the Federalist Society is big on the Constitution and sticking to it, however, they gloss over their real intentions for this document. They want strict interpretation for the powers delegated to the states in the Constitution, but they want LIBERAL, fluid, powers for the executive branch at the same time.

This is a monarcy people. If you can't see how keeping a strict oversight on the states while the minority at the top can do anything it wants, well, I hope you look both ways before stepping into the street, because there is a mighty big bus from hell heading straight towards you.

Federalists are anti-American, anti-Constitutional, anti-civil rights, anti-labor, and anti-women.

Why is God's name would any American WANT to be a federalist? How is it there are so many of them in this country? And why are they pretending to be a society when they are in fact the third party in this country? Could it be because if they starting campaigning on federalist platforms that the country would laugh them off the stage? And how is it they think they can put masks on and get their agenda in place through subterfuge instead of honest political campaigning?

How is it they can be hidden in plain sight? And do they seriously think this is a plan that will eventually allow them to seize power in this country and declare it a one-party political system? Need I remind you that Russia had a one-party political system for some time before they fell apart.

Umbagog
Thanks. That's some good info.

Umbagog, Well said, and thank you. c.i.

Republicans are still bashing Bill Clinton even though the man has been out of office for three years.

The vitriol directed at him from the Right was relentless throughout his presidency, and to expect the Democrats not to retaliate when the tables were turned is remarkably naive for people who claim to be clear thinkers, but not nearly as amazing as the convenient loss of memory they exhibit as to when the bashing began.

(One crucial difference: Clinton took the abuse without wrapping himself in the flag. He never claimed that his critics, by simply disagreeing with him, were unpatriotic.)

Civility is something neither liberals or conservatives seem to value.

Hey no problem, and thank YOU. I've studied American history, hell, all of history for years now willingly, as it fascinates me. And I am always more than happy to be of assistance or help others. What bothers me is the butchery of history that goes on in these places. Especially in a political context. Ash comes off as sincere and noble, but he is preaching something insidious. Fedral is another one. I can't stop them, of course, but I can counterpoint where I see excess at work. I wish I had more time on my hands to contribute all the time, but life does not permit it for me. Plus my internet might get turned off soon if I don't pay the bill. Hard to say what's going to get axed or not at this point.

I'm waiting to hear how Clinton's sex life is the actual cause of the Bush job creations deficit.

Edgar, you are becoming the master of the understatement!

AMEN, ci.

By golly, Frank; when I feel the dogs nipping my heels, I hear the machinery go pocketta-pocketta and I feel as invincible as Spiderman.

:wink: :wink: :wink:


I gotta tell ya, Edgar...I dislike Bush, his associates, his handlers, and his abettors so much...I have actually decided to be as quiet on this issue as possible. I recognize that I can no longer deal reasonably with the situation.

I hope he and his motley crew are thrown out on their collective asses in a groundswell of protest against what they have done to our country during the last 3+ years -- but I recognize that he may prevail...and I will make the most of it. (I think he is going to lose -- and lose big!)

In any case, I am delighted that although we have lots of philosophic differences, we are shoulder to shoulder on the issue of this pretend president.

Frank
I want not just the president out, but the ways of thinking and conducting business that allow people like him into consideration by any party.

edgar, Amen to that!

BTW, once in the life of this country is plenty!

So far we are surviving it. Another 4 yrs is unthinkable, yet possible.