WHO WILL WIN IN NOVEMBER?

You don't think it's cool that she's using her time to help other people?

I do. She's putting herself out there. Is everyone else?

<wags winger at meanies>

I sm pretty sure you wouldn't have anything to do with the Southern Poverty law center... right Foxfyre? (that would really throw me for a loop).

Just so Foxfyre doesn't use her mysterious PM to me as some cockeyed "proof" of anything...

All she told me reads like...
she worked for "a group" within her church, and headed "an organization" in such-and-such a town, and headed another "group" back in high school, and other comparatively vague things such as that.

It's crazy that she PMed me about such a thing, in the first place.

I don't know what's so bad about asking someone what she means when she says she worked for "organizations determined to end racism and other 'isms". If I claimed to work for organizations, it wouldn't be untoward to ask for more specific names. After all, that's why they call them "organizations" - they have stated purposes, and names.

I think Foxfyre simply misrepresented herself, and all the "you can check other threads if you don't believe me" is a buncha who shot John.

snood wrote:

Just so Foxfyre doesn't use her mysterious PM to me as some cockeyed "proof" of anything...

All she told me reads like...
she worked for "a group" within her church, and headed "an organization" in such-and-such a town, and headed another "group" back in high school, and other comparatively vague things such as that.

It's crazy that she PMed me about such a thing, in the first place.

I don't know what's so bad about asking someone what she means when she says she worked for "organizations determined to end racism and other 'isms". If I claimed to work for organizations, it wouldn't be untoward to ask for more specific names. After all, that's why they call them "organizations" - they have stated purposes, and names.

I think Foxfyre simply misrepresented herself, and all the "you can check other threads if you don't believe me" is a buncha who shot John.

The least you could do when you're being as nasty and disagreeable as possible, Snood, is to use my own words when you're bashing me instead of making them up. I am profoundly sorry I PMed you. I actually thought you might appreciate that I took your question seriously. I was sooooooo wrong about that. But a lesson learned. You don't have to hit me over the head with a 2 x 4 twice. Have a good evening.

You asked what organizations I have participated in re elimination of racism, sexism, etc. I have posted these before but since you asked:

Apart from personal experience in which I was a student at schools during the desegregation process in the 1950's:

For a number of years I was Executive Director of a large YWCA during a time when our imperative was to eliminate racism wherever it exists and by any means necessary. I was co-chair of a city council to help complete integration of city services and break down the last pockets of resistance to that. I helped organize a pre-school targeted at poor minority children who turned out to be 100% black. The program was so successful that we were able to gradually integrate it with other kids so that both the kids and the parents were interacting socially which did wonders to alleviate racial tensions that existed at that time.

I have served on a governor's task force to devise rules and policy to encourage equal opportunity for all and on numerous church committees with interests in civil rights and racial equality. And I helped organize a music program at Ganado AZ that integrated Hopi and Navajo children in a positive way that reduced a lot of tensions that existed there at the time.

And yes, I'm a pretty conservative lady with some pretty strong personal convictions about what true racial equality looks like. These may or may not parallel your own.

_________________
--Foxfyre

Foxfyre and I are on opposite sides of the cultural war. What she is trying to do, I am trying to undo.

If you look at the ways that they "oppose racism". Most of their policies involve forcing their views of what are "traditional American values" on to people they don't think fit in. They won't give homosexuals the right to marry, they won't give Spanish speaking American citizens the right to choose which education is best for their children. They even oppose penalties aimed at stopping hate crimes.

Lash, what you say is very sweet, but it doesn't reflect reality.

Foxfyre and I are on opposite sides of the cultural war. What she is trying to do, I am trying to undo.

Really? I am on the side of enforcing reasonable and necessary laws. Which side are you on?

She makes the claim that she "opposes racism", but she and I don't even mean the same thing by the word "racism".

My definition of racism is to subjugate people or deny them rights or privileges based on the color of their skin, their ethnicity, or their country of origin. An additional component and just as sinister and damaging is a mindset that people of color or a certain ethnicity or country of origin are less intelligent and/or less capable and/or automatically disadvantaged and thus must have the nurture and support of 'Whitey" in order to succeed. This forces people into a permanent underclass from which they are never expected to escape and it may be the most cruel form of racism of all.

What is your definition of racism?

Foxfyre supports an ideology that opposes "multiculturalism". They believe that since they believe the "heritage" of the United States is European (white) and Christian (historically protestant), that anyone else has the responsibility to become more white and Christian to fit in.

I will ask you to find a single quote of mine anywhere that even suggests that (I) "believe that since they believe the "heritage" of the United States is European (white) and Christian (historically protestant), that anyone else has the responsibility to become more white and Christian to fit in." Or any of the other garbage you sanctimoniously make up to describe me or anybody else. You obviously have no clue what "Foxfyre supports".

My definition of multiculturalism is to separate people by race or ethnicity or country of origin so that there are essentially many factions, many languages, and many sets of core values that sets people apart from each other and weakens us as a nation.

I reject that in favor of one people, one common language, and one set of core values that binds us together as a unified and cohesive people and thus infinitely stronger. All the various languages, heritages, backgrounds, and cultures of course are remembered and celebrated and appreciated, but all are assimilated seamlessly into one cohesive uniquely American culture.

So what is your definition of multiculturalism?

I take the opposite stance that diversity and the respect for the freedom of all members of society best reflects the values of America and benefits us as a society.

Based on your strident and bitter criticsim of anybody who has a different point of view than you, it would seem that you should amend this statement to say that you respect the freedom of all members of society so long as they don't disagree with ebrown.

If you look at the ways that they "oppose racism". Most of their policies involve forcing their views of what are "traditional American values" on to people they don't think fit in. They won't give homosexuals the right to marry, they won't give Spanish speaking American citizens the right to choose which education is best for their children. They even oppose penalties aimed at stopping hate crimes.

Some oppose same sex marriage and civil unions. Some defend traditional marriage and support civil unions for those who choose not to marry. Some support same sex marriage. You can't lump us all into that pot as we all come from different perspectives. The overwhelming majority of Americans however, both liberal and conservative, do defend traditional marriage.

The idea that they won't give Spanish speaking American citizens the right to choose which education is best for their children is an absolute crock since I am of the conservative group most of whom thinks ALL parents should have the right to choose which education is best for their children. It is those on your side who most often oppose that and shout down calls for school vouchers and other programs that would allow parents, especially those of limited means, to choose the best education for their children. So this was another flat out lie from you however unintentional that may have been.

And as for crime, all crimes against other people are hate crimes and there is no way to designate one crime as a hate crime more than another except to do so arbitrarily. Nobody should be penalized more or less based on the color of his/her skin. A couple of those organizations I have worked for or in, that you and Snood deny I worked for, were to research and correct the tendency of the police and judges to deal more harshly with minorities. That was a reality that should not stand. As a result of our efforts, I believe we helped correct it to a great extent. The law, like everything else, should be colorblind so far as rights, privileges, and opportunities are concerned.

And at least I am in favor of enforcing the laws that we have which you are on the record that you are not.

You can say whatever you want to mask the ugliness behind this argument. But Foxfyre and I are not on the same side at all.

The one who chose to make the argument ugly was you ebrown. You are the one who chose to make it personal instead of debating the various concepts within it.

Phillip Morris and the American Cancer Society both say they are trying to end teenage smoking. No one pretends they are really on the same side.

Foxfyre wrote:

snood wrote:

Just so Foxfyre doesn't use her mysterious PM to me as some cockeyed "proof" of anything...

All she told me reads like...
she worked for "a group" within her church, and headed "an organization" in such-and-such a town, and headed another "group" back in high school, and other comparatively vague things such as that.

It's crazy that she PMed me about such a thing, in the first place.

I don't know what's so bad about asking someone what she means when she says she worked for "organizations determined to end racism and other 'isms". If I claimed to work for organizations, it wouldn't be untoward to ask for more specific names. After all, that's why they call them "organizations" - they have stated purposes, and names.

I think Foxfyre simply misrepresented herself, and all the "you can check other threads if you don't believe me" is a buncha who shot John.

The least you could do when you're being as nasty and disagreeable as possible, Snood, is to use my own words when you're bashing me instead of making them up. I am profoundly sorry I PMed you. I actually thought you might appreciate that I took your question seriously. I was sooooooo wrong about that. But a lesson learned. You don't have to hit me over the head with a 2 x 4 twice. Have a good evening.

Oh PLEASE, goddammit - DON'T go the "Now I'm so offended I can't even go on with this discussion" route. You are simply LYING THROUGH YOUR GODDAM TEETH about giving a shyt about "racial justice", or whatever else you were blathering about! I DO care if someone cares enough about something PRIVATE to PM me - but THIS SHOULDN'T BE ANYTHING BETWEEN ME AND YOU! You are just full of crap, with nothing to hide behind, and I'm not letting you hide behind this!

As far as "using your own words "- no problem. And everyone note - no organizations, just some half-assed vague references.

They can believe you or commiserate with you or whatever... I THINK YOU'RE FULL OF CRAP!!

Foxfyre:

Quote:

You asked what organizations I have participated in re elimination of racism, sexism, etc. I have posted these before but since you asked:

Apart from personal experience in which I was a student at schools during the desegregation process in the 1950's:

For a number of years I was Executive Director of a large YWCA during a time when our imperative was to eliminate racism wherever it exists and by any means necessary. I was co-chair of a city council to help complete integration of city services and break down the last pockets of resistance to that. I helped organize a pre-school targeted at poor minority children who turned out to be 100% black. The program was so successful that we were able to gradually integrate it with other kids so that both the kids and the parents were interacting socially which did wonders to alleviate racial tensions that existed at that time.

I have served on a governor's task force to devise rules and policy to encourage equal opportunity for all and on numerous church committees with interests in civil rights and racial equality. And I helped organize a music program at Ganado AZ that integrated Hopi and Navajo children in a positive way that reduced a lot of tensions that existed there at the time.

And yes, I'm a pretty conservative lady with some pretty strong personal convictions about what true racial equality looks like. These may or may not parallel your own.

_________________
--Foxfyre

I am not flat accusing foxfyre of lying when she claims to have worked for organizations against racism. However, she does have a history in these A2k threads of inserting anecdotal evidence into almost every debate as though that gives her some kind of advantage over whomever she happens to debating or conversing with at the time. If everything she has claimed is true she must have a resume out of this world.

The point which has made repeatedly in these threads is that there is no way to prove she is telling the truth. Therefore, her anecdotal evidence is worthless in terms of giving her any kind of advantage in an ongoing discussion.

e-brown didn't say "at war" with any individual. What was said was at polar opposites with someone in the cultural war. I guess a lot depends on whether you think there's a cultural war going on.

Speaking of anecdotes.







I belong to an organization dedicated to ending racism.





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OK, I spent 5 minutes alone telling myself I should really say hi to that black guy that lives across the street.




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Oh, hi snood. I didn't see you there.

I was warned about you Snood and didn't want to believe it. Now I do. Oh well.