What causes racial hatred: racists or racial friction?

steissd
You just gave me a good laugh. Your last post reminded me of something said by Tevye in fiddler on the roof when talking about the Tzar.

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Steissd,

I happen to support Israeli unilateral withdrawal and fencing off.

But if peaceful coexistence is possible would you still want the segregation?

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This is an aside, but I think it is an appropriate place for it:

As most of you know, I have been unyieldingly pessimistic about the chances for any kind of accommodation between the state of Israel and the Arab/Islamic/Palestinian peoples in the area.

I have also been very pessimistic about the idea of two separate states existing in any kind of reasonable peace with each other.

BUT the recent moves and comments of Prime Minister Sharon have honestly got me thinking in a whole new direction.

Sharon is putting a hell of a lot on the line -- and I think only very large moves like this will lead to anything remotely resembling peace in this area.

The Palestinians have to make a comparable big move -- and the dissidents on each side have to be kept in check -- but until I see how these latest moves, maneuvers, and policy statements play out -- I am suspending my pessimism.

This move by Sharon could be a game breaker.

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CdK, the scale of support the Israeli Arabs rendered and render to their brethren in the territories is still pending complete assessment. But the more police and security services investigate, the more findings they bring. Millions of $$ were raised by the Islamic movement of Israeli Arabs and transferred to Arafat and Hamas; and every day we learn about new suspects in direct involvement of the Israeli Muslims in terror attacks: they provided terrorists with shelter, vehicles, money, maps, performed on their request surveillance of the crowded places in order to find security flaws etc.
Not long ago a Palestinian woman that studied in the Haifa university was interviewed on the Israeli TV. She was asked about her national identity. She claimed herself being a Palestinian temporarily holding an Israeli passport. She explained that the word "temporarily" referred not to her plans to emigrate, but to the her belief that in some decades Arabs will outnumber the Jews, and there will be no more Israel, only one Palestinian State, from river Jordan and to the sea. She refused to answer a question about what should happen then to the Jewish minority...

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Mr. Apisa, PM Sharon made such statements long ago, in the hardest days of intifada, he has almost lost his position of the Likud Party chairman for openly agreeing with establishment of the Palestinian state under condition of eternal end to terror and of recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. No one listened to him: his party colleagues called him a traitor, and Palestinians together with their Arab and EU supporters described him as a serial killer. But he proved being the most coherent of all the participants of the current conflict, both Arab and Jewish.

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au, heaven forbid I would think that Very Happy

I was just trying to expand on the humour, as I found the story quite amusing indeed.

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steissd wrote:

CdK, the scale of support the Israeli Arabs rendered and render to their brethren in the territories is still pending complete assessment. But the more police and security services investigate, the more findings they bring. Millions of $$ were raised by the Islamic movement of Israeli Arabs and transferred to Arafat and Hamas; and every day we learn about new suspects in direct involvement of the Israeli Muslims in terror attacks: they provided terrorists with shelter, vehicles, money, maps, performed on their request surveillance of the crowded places in order to find security flaws etc.
Not long ago a Palestinian woman that studied in the Haifa university was interviewed on the Israeli TV. She was asked about her national identity. She claimed herself being a Palestinian temporarily holding an Israeli passport. She explained that the word "temporarily" referred not to her plans to emigrate, but to the her belief that in some decades Arabs will outnumber the Jews, and there will be no more Israel, only one Palestinian State, from river Jordan and to the sea. She refused to answer a question about what should happen then to the Jewish minority...

I know i know I know. I just wanted to confirm that the 20% statistic fell under the 87% that are made up on the spot.

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steissd,

Nobody considers it apartheid because Jordinians have self determination to some extent.

BTW, I support the segregation, as long as it does not mean "transfer".

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Craven de Kere wrote:

BTW, I support the segregation, as long as it does not mean "transfer".

Craven, could you please explain, what you exactly by "segration"?

I'm getting a little bit 'nervous' when I hear this word, since the Nazi racial policy between 1933 and 1945 consisted admittedly of two elements: eugenics and racial segregation.

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In 1920 Mustafa Kemal transferred all the ethnic Greeks to Greece; since then neither Greek massacres, nor Greek rebellions ever happened in the Turkish Republic. After the WWII ethnic Germans were transferred from Czechoslovakia, Poland and Königsberg, but only the radical right in Germany supports their returning rights. Despite this, current relations between the Czech and the German nations are quite friendly and civilized. Germans, for example, restored the glory of the Czech automotive industries, improving "Skoda" to the level of European standards.

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Mr. Hinteler, the lawyers and judges in Israel are smart enough to hide their radical leftist stances in long and sophisticated rhetorics. But they demonstrated their real essence by declining the permitting to Azmi Beshara to be elected to the Isareli parliament. There was a lawsuit requiring his prohibition, and it was based on well-documented speeches of this politician where he called all the enemies of Israel (Hizballah, Syria, Iran) to increase military pressure on the country where he wanted to be a member of parliament (he delivered such speeches in Damascus that he visited to participate in Hafez el-Assad's funeral). I know that the same judges permitted candidature of the right-wing radical Baruch Marsel as well, but everyone knew that Marsel had no chance to become an MP (he got only several hundred of votes, and this was predictable). The open enemy of Israel Mr. Beshara is an MP right now, hence he cannot be prosecuted for treason, thanks to ther left radicals from the Supreme Court.

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Yeah, steissd, some define 'lawful' as "compatible with the will of a judge having jurisdiction".

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I would define "lawful" as "being in compliance with existing laws". Israeli laws (as in majority of the civilized countries) consider calls to wage war against the caller's own country being a treason. IMO, treachurers have nothing to do in the parliament of the country they betray; the most suitable place for them is a jail cell or the gallows (unfortunately, death penalty is being used in Israel once a 55 years).

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Citizens of a country should be loyal to that country. If they cannot be they have no right remaining in that nation. I am not speaking of loyalty to a particular leader of party but the nation itself. The problem in Israel is that many of the Palestinian Israeli citizens are not loyal to Israel but wish for and if possible work for it's demise. Their loyalties are for the PA. Why than should they be allowed to remain in the state of Israel? Essentially they are similar to the fifth column that Germany sent throughout Europe before WW2

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Frank Apisa wrote:

This is an aside, but I think it is an appropriate place for it:

As most of you know, I have been unyieldingly pessimistic about the chances for any kind of accommodation between the state of Israel and the Arab/Islamic/Palestinian peoples in the area.

I have also been very pessimistic about the idea of two separate states existing in any kind of reasonable peace with each other.

BUT the recent moves and comments of Prime Minister Sharon have honestly got me thinking in a whole new direction.

Sharon is putting a hell of a lot on the line -- and I think only very large moves like this will lead to anything remotely resembling peace in this area.

The Palestinians have to make a comparable big move -- and the dissidents on each side have to be kept in check -- but until I see how these latest moves, maneuvers, and policy statements play out -- I am suspending my pessimism.

This move by Sharon could be a game breaker.

WOWIE KAZOWIE!
I am glad to see some people are paying attention to Israel's attempts toward peace. As steissd responded, Sharon has made many unpopular moves toward concession before, but maybe now they aren't getting lost in the media, due to the laser Bush has pointed in the Pal/Israel direction. (Feel free not to give Bush credit--but I think the Roadmap has the world's attention.)

I hope feverishly that there can be established a lasting peace, but I think we may see the Pals rejecting everything (when it gets down to the wire).
A few good men, who walked this road before have been assasinated by extremists on their own side. Sharon has bullseye on his chest, as does this newly appointed Pal. Arafat still lives because he refused to agree to very good offers, IMO. Their (Pal) stated goal has long been the expulsion of destruction of Israel. (HAMAS document, I think accepted by the PA).

Why is Arafat still a player, when this other guy has been installed to by-pass him?

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Speaking directly to the thread header statement--
Compartmentalizing races, of course, would stop racial crimes.
We'd be killing each other over religious differences, lifestyle differences...

It is best to learn to live together, IMO, rather than isolate ourselves from people who have differences... Soon, we'd all be living alone.

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Sofia
Arafat, is still as they say, the power behind the throne.

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Sofia

If this will bring peace to that area -- I will pray for Sharon and his pal -- and you know how distasteful that is for me.

Hell, if this will bring peace, I'll even give Dubya some well deserved credit also.

Let's see what happens. Pray if you will. I've got my fingers crossed.

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I believe as long as he is, no real progress can be made.

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What causes racial hatred: racists or racial friction?

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