Political Correctness: Make a Judgment

The rest of what you said was worthy.

Yes, just as worthy as the opening remark.

One day, set, you might decide to stop squeezing lemons with your sphincter. But even if that day never arrives, you can still count me a friend, desired or not.

I have no objection to your friendship, i don't shove anything up my @ss, and i don't intend to ignore it when i write plainly what i mean in my native language and you attempt to suggest that it was meaningless or poorly expressed.

What two native born black men who have not lived their lives in isolation have in common that is not in common with a white man is not all, I would argue, superficial.

You thinking a little slowly today? My reference to superficiality was to the basis for description. The color of your skin is a superficial description. The reaction of others to the color of your skin it might considerably alter your experience of life as opposed to my own--the mere fact of it doesn't determine that experience, however.

Not any slower than usual Setanta. Maybe you're not being as crystal clear as you think.

You said:


and another black man and I would have that in common, and could speak to that experience more authoritatively than could you?

First, please accept my sincere apology for posting something that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread's premise.

However, those of you on this thread are very articulate and know how to insult others with wit and intelligence. When I read Set and Blatham go after each other, it is one of the pleasures of my day.

Now, if Lash would go pick a fight with the bunny, it just wouldn't get any better...

Again, I aplogize, but this was written with nothing but admiration for those of you most active--Snood, Set, Blatham and Lash. You make an old lady smile in appreciation.

I remarked that with respect to your experience of what it means to be a black man in America it can reasonably be said that you have a special insight--i only stipulated that that was not absolute, it doesn't mean that you know how each and every black man experiences America.

How you perceive the reaction of others to the color of your skin could be conditioned by your past experiences, by resentments, by misunderstandings, by any number of factors which arise from your experience, but which do not arise from the color of your skin. It is entirely possible that you could be terribly mistaken about someone's reaction to you. You could be completely wrong about how they have reacted. You could be completely wrong about the reason for their reaction--for example, rather than not liking the color of your skin, they might not like the tone of your voice. They might see a Texas license plate, and think to themselves that they never liked Texans, without knowing if you are a Texan or not. Unless and until someone plainly states that they don't like you because of the color of your skin, you just can't know for certain--which is why i objected to the second part of your statement.

Finally, i referred to your skin color as a superficial condition, because it tells me nothing about you. Seeing you on the street, and noticing that you are a lovely chocolate brown (if that is the case) doesn't tell me if you are cheerful or morose, kind or cruel, reasonable or irrational, generous or stingy--all it tells me is that your skin is brown. Therefore, your skin color is a superficial consideration. It may give you a special insight in to how most (but not necessarily all) black men feel about living in America. There is no good reason at all to assume that the color of your skin gives you any special insight into how someone will react to you, or why.

Shoot, I thought we were about to meet somewhere in the middle on this, but ennyway, cheers Set.

Just where do you think "in the middle" would be? Do you want me to say that skin color is not a superficial descriptor? Do you suggest that the color of your skin makes you more perceptive about how people are going to react to you?

It seems to me that you're pouting because i won't admit that you have special insight.

If you agree that I'd be more likely than you to understand what it's like to be a black man in america, then we have common ground. I thought you'd already said as much. I feel like you're just baiting me with that stuff about "pouting" and "special privilege". If you don't think it's more likely for a black man than a white man in america to understand what it's like being a black man in america, then we completely disagree.

Good dialogue.

We won't agree.

Each person's opinion about racial/sexual/gender-y identities and experiences are valid--but when you try to say--based on skin color et al, that one has a higher truth about a meta reality--I say bullshit.

Be content to speak to what you have experienced. Not an overarching reality for a collection fo people who live different lives than you've ever experienced. You have NO IDEA about the lives of a multitude of blacks.

Why aren't you content to speak for yourself?

You want that Black Man Badge.

You can't have it.

Have your Snood Badge.

You aren't The Black Man.

You're A black man....among many other things...good, bad and indifferent....as are we all.

The black people I have known and witnessed are as varied as it's possible to get. I have known many, some admirable, some despicable. Most have been people trying to make it in the world, same as anybody else, and not more or less admirable. The oppression of centuries has left a mark on their character. The raising of their children has been colored by the parents' reaction to being considered too stupid to play a level field with others, the threat of physical violence, and rejection of the white experience. It is a wheel that continues to roll even when the engine may be disengaged.

Many black Americans are monetarily successful, and many are well liked and well adjusted. Many are in the hell holes of certain wards, unemployable, mistrusted, no matter what. They all share the experience of being rejected by substantial numbers of non blacks. We can intellectually make a stab at what it means to be one of these people, but are sure to fall short. I liken it to my experience of coming up dirt poor, abused and not precocious or loveable in any way. You who have not experienced it can only guess at such an existence. We were a family. The black Americans are a race (I know the arguments against such a concept). Hell, most people can point to a nation other than this one to be a part of, hence, German-American, Japanese-American. The black Americans point to a continent, rather than a nation. Roots, but not tap roots.

I don't want a "badge"- "black man", "snood" or otherwise. What I have is an opinion that agrees with some and not with others. All this amounts to is a simple disagreement, and the efforts to supercharge it with words like "you want a badge" and "you're just whining" don't do anything to add to the quality of the discussion.

I say again - being a member of a particular demographic group predisposes one, IMO, to be more likely to understand better what it is like to be a member of that group better than one who is not a member of that group. Gays understand life as a gay better than straights; blacks understand life as blacks better than whites, women know life as women better than men, etc.

Been watching and reading along... and I'd love to go to bat for you Snood, because a lot of your arguments make a lot of sense... but: As soon as you buy into that; some exceptionally ignorant dude who happens to be black is going to step up to the mic and try to invoke the privilege. Or the unlucky slob who's experienced virtually nothing but rabid racism from whites... or the checkout girls in Set's example that wouldn't know the street if they tripped over a Snoop Dog look-alike on sidewalk with a 40 in one hand and a blunt in the other. It just doesn't work. Same goes for women. I've listened to chicks rant about "what women think" who clearly knew less than I about the consensus of their gender (to the extent such a thing might exist)(I defy you to produce 4 women who think alike)(unless there's a 5th who desperately needs outcasting). Your basic premise has a foundation in truth, much the same way stereotypes usually do.

That being said; Your blackness Snood; is among the attributes that make me seek your opinion on certain subjects for precisely the reasons you've detailed. So it works a little for Snood... but not just because he's black.

The fundamental reason I so enjoy reading foxfyre's posts is that she can speak confidently about what riding with the Hell's Angels is like because she saw some one day and also because she once rented a scooter in Hawaii.

On the other hand, a fellow from my home town who did ride with several motorcycle groups including the Hell's Angels really has nothing credibily authoritative to say about riding with the Hell's Angels because other Hell's Angels have had unique and much different experiences than him.

Is that it, in a nutshell, boys?

Basically - and the one who'd had the experience would be the one who'd have the best info about riding with hell's angels.

Hah! That's one for Snood. Keep going guys.

Don't encourage us, Diane. I think the horse might already be glue.