Diesels ---- the cars of the immediate future

Curtis, please open your eyes. NO CUMMINS-POWERED DODGE HAS EVER HAD GLOW PLUGS. Period, end of discussion. I am absolutely 100% sure on this. Heck, I drove a bus yesterday with the same engine as the 1989-early 1998 Rams (Cummins 6BT 12-valve). No glow plugs here.

You are wrong. End of story.

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Just to address the statement, "Bigger is better. No exceptions"

Passenger Vehicle Occupants Killed and Injured, by Percent Rollover and type of Vehicle.
Source: FARS, NASS, GES

Persons KILLED in rollovers

Passenger car 23%

Van 33%

SUV 61%

Pickup trucks 45%
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Persons INJURED in rollover

Passenger car 6%

Van 7%

SUV 18%

Pickup Truck 14%
----------------------------------------------------------------

So, SUVs and Pickup Trucks are much more likely to have fatalities in rollover accidents. Roughly two to three times as many. (23% compared to 61% and 45%.) And injuries were also roughly two to three times higher. (6% compared to 18% and 14%)

I won't ask the wise-ass question, "which would you rather rollover in?"

I'd rather shed a little light on the subject.

The April Consumer Reports issue is the annual carbook. Generally, their report on safety says that all vehicle types have improved in both avoidance of accidents and crash protection. "....reflect improved crash test results, better designs, and the proliferation of advanced safety features such as stabiity control, head-protection side air bags, and more"

I think the additon of side airbags and other safety measures will have a considerable affect on reducing fatalities and injuries. At least, I hope so.

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Perhaps I ought to define " Diesels the cars of the
IMMEDIATE FUTURE.."

The immediate future is like immediately. The alternative competitor to diesels is the hybrid. (Or, perhaps diesels are the alternative to the hybrid)
The future may bring us the hydrogen car.

That's my opinion. What's your take on the issue?

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Now try dumping your slanted data, & posting the COMPLETE fatality numbers. The last set I saw (probably for 2002), all the trucks except the compact pickups & SUV's did pretty well.

Again: Civic or Tahoe, head-on, what would you rather be driving?

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Jarlaxle wrote:

Curtis, please open your eyes. NO CUMMINS-POWERED DODGE HAS EVER HAD GLOW PLUGS. Period, end of discussion. I am absolutely 100% sure on this. Heck, I drove a bus yesterday with the same engine as the 1989-early 1998 Rams (Cummins 6BT 12-valve). No glow plugs here.

You are wrong. End of story.

Then I put you in charge of notifying all the diesel parts sites so they can stop selling the cummins glow plugs to all the unsuspecting suckers who are buying them. Also I should contact Dodge and tell them to take out the glow plug light in our 2005 Dodge's dash. By the way, the 6BT you drove was not identical to the 6 in the Rams. Different intake routing and cam and valves made it more suited to the fact that they were used in a wider range of RPMs in commercial applications. The Cummins site used to have more on it, but the valves had some differences; like the higher RPM commercial BTs had sodium filled valves with more of a tulip to them to help with heat, whereas the Dodge versions missed out on that little tidbit. You should really read up on it before you make blanket statements like that. Keep in mind that northern markets got much different options than other markets. Do you think that a Cummins would start in a generator application in the arctic circle? Nope. The BTs got 'em in that application, as well as all the Cummins in trucks north of the southern provinces of Canada. Of course you're not going to read about it in your magazines or typical NA websites, but they're out there. I'm not wrong, you're just under-informed.

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WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, WHACK! Is this penetrating your thick skull to your tiny brain yet?! THE CUMMINS B-SERIES HAS NO GLOW PLUGS. MOST LARGE DIESELS DO NOT USE GLOW PLUGS!

The 5.9 B/ISB use a heat grid in the intake (that'd explain the "wait to start" light)--and actually start up pretty well without it. It hasn't worked in years on my bus.

Quote:

The Cummins site used to have more on it, but the valves had some differences; like the higher RPM commercial BTs had sodium filled valves with more of a tulip to them to help with heat, whereas the Dodge versions missed out on that little tidbit.

Are you REALLY this dense? "Higher RPM"? Are you on drugs or something? The B's in our buses are governed at ~2700RPM--LOWER than every Ram I've seen. Heck, we have one ISB (1999 Blue Bird TranShuttle, 175HP) that tops out at ~2500.

In the Arctic, the start them with the same cold-start system as the GMC transit bus we have: a can of ether. I should mention that no 2-stroke Detroit has any starting aids whatsoever (other than the ether), & they start right up in cold weather. I didn't need ether at -15 degrees last winter. I've ethered it once, when it cranked slowly due to a weak battery.

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I ran my newer diesel very low on oil . (Dont ask, stupid mistake, Im not a gearhead)
I had it carried to the dealer on a rollback and they replaced the starter and oiled er up. Its a 03 7.3 Ford 250.
Has anything of permanent damage been done? The garage stated that the oil is all foamy and the trucks running like "****";

I lease this truck from me and I wonder if I should terminate the lease or is it minimal problem.
I believe the damn thing holds 19 quarts of oil.

I need to pay attention to the miles but the oil stickers arent at a convenient spot for me to see.

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A 7.3 PSD should hold 14 quarts.

You're screwed. Figure about $5000 for a rebuilt engine.

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Audi of Germany have just brought out a new model A8 and have equipped it with an impressive range of new diesel engines including a "W" configuration (two narrow "V"s side-by-side with a common crankshaft) which is also obtainable on the Volkswagen Touareg and Phaeton models....they might be badged differently in the US.
I read about it in my paper today...it will be on the VW/ Audi website or I can supply more details if anyone wants.
These are seriously good engines- powerful and frugal. I want one.

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I drove the Tuareg. Too much crap in there. Its got more entertainment features than a multiplex. I can see all these crashes coming up with everybody driving by their screens. Its a similar problem in boats that are outfitted with IS's (integrated systems) wherein sonar, radar, GPS, chart plotting and Cmap data is plopped on a forward set of screens. In our area of Fundy we had one horrible accident last year when a dragger overranna small (40') lobstah boat and crushed the crew.

My diesel is ok, the foam was only a result of being too low and the starter went into a "safe mode" It failed to connect the bendix (I suppose the bendix has some chip to prevent engaging if the gage light is on)

Cost me 200 for the tow service and refill 21 quarts.
The starter waS RELACED as a warranty item, Im just getting out of the warranty area for chicken **** stuff (had it noit been warranteed, the starter would be 400 pinienzies)

One thing with diesels Ive noted. The parts and service are more expensive.

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If they put 21 quarts in, take it back IMMEDIATELY & make them drain the oil, & put the correct amount in. They overfilled by half--the PSD should have 14 quarts.

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Are you saying fraud? Its on a computerized invoice which counts the fluids by meter or bar code.

Youre usually 100% sure, but hardly ever 100% right, so Let me live in my delusion and you in yours.

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Jarlaxle, you aren't reading my posts. I said Of the higher RPM commercial 5.9s. That does not imply that they are higher RPM than the dodge rams. THe commercial diesels are governed at anywhere from 1700-2800. The Dodge diesels are higher than that. If you look at my post I was comparing commercial low rpm diesels to commercial high RMP diesels, not dodge trucks. The rest you'll have to get off your "I drive a truck" high horse and stop acting like a hick. You probably use Marvel Mystery Oil, too, don't you. So I guess my response should be, "WHACK WHACK, go back and read the words instead of skimming them."

The information I posted here came directly from the Cummins website, so I'm outta here. If you can't read a website to verify information then that's your shortcoming.

I was excited to find this forum since it is something that I think people could really use. I came to offer my 13 years of experience, but you, Jarlaxle, are hellbent on publicly and personally slandering other members just to inflate yourself. It started with attacks on Farmerman and now it has moved to me. If that's what gets your rocks off; saying things like "whack whack," and "thick skull," in order to elicit a response, then your quest is fulfilled. You have successfully taken a discussion about diesels' place in the economy and made it about yelling at people for things with which you erroneously disagree. The forum is yours, I'm outta here.

Curtis

P.S. You need to either be more specific in your posts or read up more. Almost all of Detroits automotive diesels are designed for optional glow plugs to be installed by the auto manufacturer. Since most of their diesels end up in Europe, they are added to reduce cold start and cold run emissions. My point? Detroits have glow plugs too. Open your mind a little. We're not talking about just Peterbuilts and KWs.

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In my paper today, there was an article about the new AC Cobra sports car which has an engine which runs on hydrogen, the H2 being produced by electrolysis of water.
There are two engine options, the larger one being 7 litre. Some car.

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It didnt mean that the electrolysis was being carried out on board did it? Its easier to generate H2 by other means than an electrolysis unit. Why not just carry an H2 tank in the back seat?
Still the same 427 engine, mod for higher gas permitivity . I believe that a purely H2 burning engine (rather than a fuel cell) , will have acid deposition problems because the air will have significant N2 and CO2 , so the water created on combustion will dissociate into a hydronium ion and eat your exhaust just like the old tetraethyl lead additives

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The newspaper article was short and did not have this detail; I will copy some out in 12 hours or so.
I thought the same as you; is the hydrogen being produced in "real time"? I doubt it, but it wasn't clear. I will investigate further.

McT

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cool. The "reformer' technology is able to do a "real time"onversion but it uses methanol or ethanol as the H donor and then , Im not sure that the reamaining products arent a problem.

i read an article on H2 engines in which the car carries a huge tank of H onboard, it takes up a lot of room and had a chiller. I got a picture that it was like the dry ice chillers they used to use on dragsters

Jarlaxle- I called the Ford dealer re: the 21 quarts v 14. the manual said 14 (I never read it before)
So, they didnt try to give me the run around, they admitted that their pump must be screwed up and they gave me the oil for free. This garage has never been screwing me before. Theyve done all kinds of test maintenance on the Cat and all our vehicles including the RV and they have been more interested in getting me on the road . The starter that they put in was also at discount for a new replacement part.

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Quote:

Are you saying fraud? Its on a computerized invoice which counts the fluids by meter or bar code.

I think "incompetence" is much more likely.

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curtis73 wrote:

Jarlaxle, you aren't reading my posts. I said Of the higher RPM commercial 5.9s. That does not imply that they are higher RPM than the dodge rams. THe commercial diesels are governed at anywhere from 1700-2800. The Dodge diesels are higher than that. If you look at my post I was comparing commercial low rpm diesels to commercial high RMP diesels, not dodge trucks. The rest you'll have to get off your "I drive a truck" high horse and stop acting like a hick. You probably use Marvel Mystery Oil, too, don't you. So I guess my response should be, "WHACK WHACK, go back and read the words instead of skimming them."

The information I posted here came directly from the Cummins website, so I'm outta here. If you can't read a website to verify information then that's your shortcoming.

I was excited to find this forum since it is something that I think people could really use. I came to offer my 13 years of experience, but you, Jarlaxle, are hellbent on publicly and personally slandering other members just to inflate yourself. It started with attacks on Farmerman and now it has moved to me. If that's what gets your rocks off; saying things like "whack whack," and "thick skull," in order to elicit a response, then your quest is fulfilled. You have successfully taken a discussion about diesels' place in the economy and made it about yelling at people for things with which you erroneously disagree. The forum is yours, I'm outta here.

Curtis

P.S. You need to either be more specific in your posts or read up more. Almost all of Detroits automotive diesels are designed for optional glow plugs to be installed by the auto manufacturer. Since most of their diesels end up in Europe, they are added to reduce cold start and cold run emissions. My point? Detroits have glow plugs too. Open your mind a little. We're not talking about just Peterbuilts and KWs.

Let's see...high RPM commercial 5.9's have glow plugs. FALSE! If they range from 1700-2800RPM governors (as you say), I'd definitely consider our 27-2800RPM B's "high RPM" engines. NONE, ZILCH, ZIP, ZERO of these buses (we have 3 12-valve 6BT's & 3 24-valve ISB's) have glow plugs. These are 3 different chassis manufacturers (Freightliner, Blue Bird, Spartan), & 4 different body manufacturers (General Coach, Blue Bird, Metrotrans, Goshen/Supreme). Not one of these has anything but the intake heat grid.

I use MMO, yes--it's good for freeing up stuck rings on engines that have sat for several years. It works very well, as does Dexron ATF. I regularly drive a truck that had the rings freed with MMO after sitting almost 10 years. In the ~12,000 miles since then, it's run perfectly.

No "slander" (which isn't even the right term to start with) here--Farmerman is WRONG (and note his backpedaling, now claiming his truck has a PSD). You are WRONG. Period, end of story.

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what is a PSD? I announced the year and engine size. you just cant read, just like you didnt read my CAT diesel url. Also i aint backpeddaling on anything Try to c O N C E N T R A T E . The bill sed 21 quarts and when I told them that i was informed thhat it should hold 14 quarts, they looked at their bill and sed yep, we were wrong. You wanted me to worry about a new engine and then have the garage drain the oil and refill.
the diff between us is I dont go ballistic over little things. I rarely get flustered over these posts, and I try to keep good relations with service people (I am their client) . You seem to want to scream at everyone around you and , by doing so, you dont sound any more compelling, just a little scary. i still say that you are a great candidate for anger management.

chill a bit, its only a friggin typewriter in a tv set

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Diesels ---- the cars of the immediate future

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