ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Okay it didn't happen according to OE.

I have to admit, however, that this would be one of the cases where the current lack of a good search feature on the website makes it really hard to back up these kind of claims, even if true....

On the other hand, I haven't seen any one seriously arguing that "hundreds of thousands" of Palestinians have been killed, so if someone who makes that claim about people he or she is arguing against can't back it up and one would have to take his/her word for it.... that doesn't make for a good discussion either.

I think it's widely accepted that the number of Palestinian deaths as a result of Israeli operations is a couple of thousands, and by far exceeds the number of Israeli victims. Which, in itself, does not necessarily mean that one or the other interpretation of the situation is correct, but it would be nice if people could stick to widely accepted numbers rather than making wild claims about what "the other side" says, particularly when it's rather hard or even impossible to back up those claims....

Actually now that you mention it, it could have been JTT's rant about how many innocent children the USA has wantonly and maliciously killed in Vietnam and Iraq and Cuba--I don't recall that he used a specific number for the Palestinians but made it seem comparable and it was within the scope of that discussion. I don't know. So I'll retract the statement.

http://able2know.org/topic/127255-54#post-3607704

I wonder why you never ask him to support anything he says?

Appreciated. It contributes positively to any kind of discussion.




Are you saying that it's only legitimate to question one posters claims if one also questions all other posters' claims on the same internet forum? Seriously, what's your complaint here? JTT is a liberal, so I won't question his claims? Well, gungasnake is a "conservative", and you don't seem to question his claims all to often either....

I correctly scoffed at JTT's statement that hundreds of thousands of Pals were killed by Israel. I was just about right when I said about 10,000.

Of course there is a disparity. There is always one when one side has an organized military that is well equipped.

Jeeze, that's a new one on me, Advocate. You must have me confused with another JTT.

The real question is; IF the land hadn't be stolen to create a country based on the guilt complexes of certain power brokers, how many casualties would there have been?

I certainly know why you don't.

I notice you didnt challenge my statements to you concerning your stupid statements about the "illegal blockade" of Cuba by the US.
Why is that?

JTT, what is your estimate of the number of Palestinian Arabs that would have been killed by the Israelis, if the the Palestinian Arabs had stopped attacking and killing Israelis after Israel--as specified by the UN recommendation--declared its independence in 1948?

That's about the silliest question on a2k. When somebody's land is taken away without any legal right or compensation, and you are not free to roam around in your own country, you have the mitigated gall to ask how many Palestinian Arabs have been killed by the Israelis?

What's the point of your question? It's easily found in Google search.

FYI, one is too many.

Cicwerone imposter, the lands of Palestine inhabited by thePalestinian Arabs and the lands of Palestine inhabited by the Palestinian Jews belonged to neither until the British gave up their ownership of Palestine in 1948. After that, what the UN gave to the Palestinian Arabs belonged to the Palestinian Arabs, and what the UN gave to the Palestinian Jews belonged to the Palestinian Jews.

Actually, my question is not silly. It's pretty insightful. The point of the question is to bring home to folks like you as well as to the Palestinian Arabs that the deaths of the Palestinian Arabs caused by the Israelis would not have occurred if the Palestinian Arabs hadn't repeatedly tried to kill Jews and steal Israel.

You don't have the foggiest notion of what you're talking about. This is as much a heaping load of steaming bullshit as your idiotic commentary on constitutional issues.

Except those Palestinians were not 'expelled'. They left of their own free will expecting to return after the attacking Arab armies had exterminated all the Jews. Those Arab armies didn't get it done, however, and they were repelled--are you counting the repelled combatants among those 600,000? Perhaps you can understand that they wouldn't be exactly welcome.

Then many years later when those Palestinians decided they wanted to return, they were no longer welcome. Those Palestinians and their progeny who stayed are still there as full citizens of Israel. They comprise (I think) about 20% of the population of Israel, are prospering quite nicely, and are represented on the Knesset. Israel gets along with anybody who isn't trying to murder, injure, and maim Israelis.

Another factor that sort of gets left out of these discussions is this:



The Jews were never compensated for the property they left behind. Why don't the Arabs just turn that property over to the displaced Palestinians and call it even? Of course then there would be peace which is what the Palestinian leadership has made it crystal clear that it does not want. For that matter the Arab countries aren't so crazy about providing a homeland for displaced Palestinians either. Hell of a way to care about people isn't it.

JTT, I know what I am talking about. It is you who has the problem of dealing with truth, and who accuses others of suffering your deficiency.

The lands of Palestine inhabited by thePalestinian Arabs and the lands of Palestine inhabited by the Palestinian Jews belonged to neither until the British gave up their ownership of Palestine in 1948. After that, what the UN gave to the Palestinian Arabs belonged to the Palestinian Arabs, and what the UN gave to the Palestinian Jews belonged to the Palestinian Jews.

What folks like you need, as well as the Palestinian Arabs, is to know and understand that the deaths of the Palestinian Arabs caused by the Israelis would not have occurred if the Palestinian Arabs hadn't repeatedly tried to kill Jews and steal Israel.

TO WHOM DOES PALESTINE BELONG?

Here's an abbreviated chronology of the ownership of the land called Palestine (some years are approximate). The Encyclopedia Britannica, “Palestine,” is the source.

2000 BC: First Canaanite Culture.
1400 BC: Eqypt conquers Palestine.
1300 BC: First Israelite Culture.
1100 BC: First Philistine Culture.
1000 BC: Saul King of Palestine except Philistra and Phoenicia.
0721 BC: Israel is conquered.
0333 BC: Alexander the Great conquers Palestine.
0135 BC: Maccabees conquer all Palestine.
0040 BC: Romans conquer Palestine.

0638 AD: Arabs begin conqueringJPalestine.
1099 AD: Crusaders conquer Palestine.
1187 AD: Saladin conquers Palestine.
1244 AD: Turks conquer Palestine.
1516 AD: Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1831 AD: Egypt conquers Palestine.
1841 AD: Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1918 AD: Ottoman governance of Palestine ends.
1918 AD: British Protectorate of Palestine Begins.

1920: 5 Jews killed, 200 wounded in anti-zionist riots in Palestine.
1921: 46 Jews killed, 146 wounded in anti-zionist riots in Palestine.
1929: 133 Jews killed, 339 wounded; 116 Arabs killed, 232 wounded.
1936-1939: 329 Jews killed, 857 wounded; 3,112 Arabs killed, 1,775 wounded; 135 Brits killed, 386 wounded; 110 Arabs hanged, 5,679 jailed.
1947: UN resolution partitions Palestine into a Jewish State and into an Arab State.
1948: Jews declare independence and establish the State of Israel.
1948: War breaks out between Jews defending Israel and Arabs invading Israel.
1948: State of Israel successfully defends itself and additionally conquers a part of Palestine originally granted by the UN to the Arabs.

SOME OF THE TERRORISM OF JEWS BY ARABS
1970: Avivim school bus massacre by Palestinian PLO members, killing nine children, three adults and crippling 19.
1972: Black September kidnaps and kills eleven Israeli Olympic athletes and one German policeman in the Munich Massacre.
1974: Kiryat Shmona massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members, killing 18 people, nine of whom were children.
1974: Ma'alot massacre at the Ma'alot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members: 26 of the hostages were killed, 66 wounded.
1975: In the Savoy Operation PLO gunmen from Lebanon take dozens of hostages at the Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel eventually killing eight hostages and three IDF soldiers, and wounding eleven hostages.
1976: Hijacking of Air France Flight 139 (Tel Aviv-Paris) by Palestinian PFLP and German Revolutionäre Zellen; see Operation Entebbe: four hostages, one Sayeret Matkal soldier and 45 Ugandian soldiers killed.
1978: Members of the Arab Revolutionary Council poison Israeli oranges with mercury, injuring at least twelve people and reducing exports by 40 percent.
1978: Coastal Road massacre: Fatah gunmen killed several tourists and hijack a bus near Haifa; 37 Israelis on the bus are killed.
1984: three killed and nine injured in the bombing of a civilian bus in Ashdod.
1984: 48 people are wounded by a machine gun attack on a crowded shopping mall in Jerusalem.
1986: A bomb place on a bus in the West Bank kills one and severely injures three.
1990: PLF attacks the beaches of Tel Aviv.
1990: PLO attacks the US embassy.
1992: Israeli Embassy bombing by "Islamic Jihad" in Buenos Aires, Argentina--29 killed, 242 injured.
1994: Bombing of Jewish Center in Buenos Aires, Argentina, kills 86 and wounds 300.
1996: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within 10 days.
2001: Israeli infant Shalhevet Pass is fatally shot in the head by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron.
2001: 21 civilians, mostly teenagers from the former Soviet Union, are killed by a Hamas suicide bomber in the Dolphinarium massacre in Tel Aviv, Israel.
2001: A suicide bomber in Jerusalem kills seven and wounds 130 in the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing; Hamas and Islamic Jihad claim responsibility.
2001: Israeli tourism minister Rehavam Zeevi is assassinated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
2002: Terrorism against Israel in 2002.
2002: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 30 and injures 140 during Passover festivities in a hotel in Netanya, Israel in the Passover massacre.
2002: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 15 and injures over 40 in Haifa, Israel, in the Matza restaurant massacre.
2002: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a bus in Jerusalem in the Patt junction massacre. The attack kills 19 people and wounds over 74.
2002: Hamas orchestrates the Jerusalem bus 20 massacre. 11 people were killed and over 50 wounded when a suicide bomber detonated on a crowded bus in central Jerusalem.
2003: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 17 people and wounds 53 when he detonates a bomb hidden under his clothing in the Haifa bus 37 massacre.
2003: Jerusalem bus 2 massacre: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a crowded bus carrying mostly Orthodox Jewish Israelis, including many children returning from the Western Wall. 23 people are killed and over 130 wounded.
2003: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 21 and wounds 51 in a Haifa restaurant in the Maxim restaurant massacre.
2004: Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 2004.
2004: Jerusalem bus 19 massacre: Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades orchestrate a suicide bombing on a bus in Jerusalem, Israel killing 11 people and wounding more than 50.
2004: Israeli soldiers arrest Hussam Abdo, a 15 year-old Palestinian boy with explosives strapped to his chest at the Hawara Checkpoint. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades sent Abdo on a suicide mission to bomb the checkpoint.
2004: Pregnant Israeli commuter Tali Hatuel and her four young children are gunned down at close range by militants from the Popular Resistance Committees and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
2005: A suicide bomber in Tel Aviv kills five Israelis and undermines a weeks-old truce between the two sides.
2005: Islamic Jihad takes responsibility for a suicide bombing in Netanya, Israel, which kills five people at a shopping mall.
2005: Jewish settler in an IDF uniform opens fire on a bus in Shfaram, Israel, killing 4 Israeli Arabs and wounding 5.
2005: A Palestinian suicide bomber detonates a bomb near a falafel stand in Hadera, Israel that kills himself and six others. Twenty-six people were also wounded.
2005: A suicide bomb attack kills at least five people in Netanya in north-western Israel.
2006: Qassam rockets fired by Hamas into Israel, especially the cities of Ashkelon and Sderot, injures many citizens.
2006: Palestinian suicide bomber kills himself and four others at Kedumim Junction in the West Bank.
2006: Sami Hammad, a Palestinian suicide bomber, detonates an explosive device in Tel Aviv, Israel, killing eleven people and injuring 70.
...
Again: TO WHOM DOES PALESTINE BELONG?

Congrats on the excellent post that pretty much says it all.

Oh, now I see it; since the Jews lost their property in other countries, it's okay for them to steal Palestinian lands. Thanks for making that very clear.

Perhaps you would like to post any comment I made that even remotely said that it is okay for the Jews to steal Palestinian lands.

Yeah, I've seen your constitutional arguments. As I've said before, they are truly scintillating.

You think that repeating lies somehow creates truth.