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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 May, 2011 12:15 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
hypocrisy of thier politicians and their government


Using that as your criteria, can it be said that you hate the US also?
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 May, 2011 08:04 pm
@mysteryman,
How do you jump from Israel to the U.S. with your hate comment. I hated the Bush government and not too crazy about Obama. They both seemed to me to be too military minded. But it seems to make the military industrial complex happy. And conseratives like you get thier rocks off every time they hear a gun go off. So be happy and get of my ass!!!
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 May, 2011 08:41 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Another straw man post. I dont hate jews. I hate the state of Israel because of the hypocrisy of thier politicians and their government. And I dont care much for your attempt to paint me as a raciest, but its what people like you do best.


Well, the problem with your logic is that it may be considered incongruous to "hate Israel," and not hate any other nations that have done many not nice things. So, if one does not have issues with Jews/Judaism, why single out the supposed sins of only Israel? Unless of course, hating is the way you view the world, and you can then hate any food that doesn't taste delicious, or hate any day that isn't sunny, etc., etc. Hating might be a new approach to one's existence that you may have discovered?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 May, 2011 08:42 pm
@RABEL222,
Good Lord do you Lefties even know what a "stawman" argument is?

Am I surprised that you don't care to be described as anti-Semitic? of course not. You are a Liberal and can't imagine that any of your foul thoughts are born of prejudice.

Wiping out the state of Israel and its government will wipe out millions of Jews, but I guess they are collateral damage to you.

Please...you hate Jews. Some of them give reason to be hated. Just admit it and stop this silly **** of calling for their extermination and denying your prejudice.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 May, 2011 08:44 pm
@RABEL222,
BTW

I notice you failed to provide us with "a comprehensive, coherent, and fact based explanation for your vile calumny."

Why do you think that is?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 May, 2011 09:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Good Lord do you Lefties even know what a "stawman" argument is?


Nope, I don't have the foggiest notion what a "stawman" argument is, Finn. I think that you're trying to impress everyone again with your "knowledge" of the English language.

This usually doesn't work out so well for you, but go ahead, try to impress.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 04:35 am
@RABEL222,
You said you hate Israel because of the hypocrisy of their government.

Since our own govt is also hypocritical, then using your own words you must hate the US also.

BTW, I dont "get my rocks off" like you suggest.
I have served in to many places where people were trying to kill each other.
If I had my way, there would never be another shot fired in anger, anywhere, at any time.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 07:29 am
Quote:
Jews in Name Only
Thursday, May 26, 2011
By Ben Shapiro

In 2008, Obama grabbed 78 percent of the Jewish vote. Even the most wildly optimistic polling today shows that Obama's support remains high among Jews. It's a result that Republicans simply can't understand – why do so many Jews continue to support a president who has shown time and again that he stands against the State of Israel?

Why the reflexive lever-pulling on behalf of a man who appoints anti-Semites to positions of high power, attends a virulently anti-Semitic church for 20 years, and sees Israel as the cause of the West's conflict with the Muslim world?

The answer is deceptively simple: the Jews who vote for Obama are, by and large, Jews In Name Only (JINOs). They eat bagels and lox; they watch "Schindler's List"; they visit temple on Yom Kippur – sometimes. But they do not care about Israel. Or if they do, they care about it less than abortion, gay marriage and global warming.

That prioritization is critical in understanding the Jewish vote.

The same polls that report high levels of support for President Obama show that 94 percent of American Jews said that if Israel "no longer existed tomorrow," it would be a tragedy (this means, by the way, that 6 percent of Jews should be automatically discounted as self-hating or insane) and that 77 percent of Jews believe that Israel should refuse to negotiate with a Hamas-backed Palestinian Arab government.

The only way to reconcile that high level of support for Israel with a high level of support for an anti-Israel, anti-Semitic administration lies in the fact that all voters have priorities, and that Israel is not these voters' highest priority.

Which is why they are known as JINOs.

Being Jewish is not like being black or Asian or Hispanic. It comes with certain attendant ideological responsibilities. There is no logical or inherent connection between skin color and liberalism or conservatism – melanin has no political playbook. Jewish identity, however, does. There is more to being truly Jewish than being born into a Jewish family, just as there is more to being Christian than being baptized.

Being truly Jewish requires allegiance to basic Judaic principles; the first and foremost of which is identity with the Jewish people and its enlightened national aspirations. In the Tanach (the Jewish canon, including the Old Testament, the Prophets and the Writings), when Ruth converts to Judaism, she states, "Your people will be my people and your God my God."

The connection between Jews and the land of Israel is the running theme of the Old Testament. Any Jew who does not take these principles seriously – more seriously than global warming or affirmative action, for example – is a JINO.

And voting for Obama is a violation of those principles.

Obama's speech last week implicitly blaming Israel's failure to surrender its security for the radical terrorism of the Islamic world threatens Israel ideologically; his call for Israel to return to the pre-1967 borders as the basis for negotiation endangers Israel's survival on a practical level, cutting the State to 9 miles wide and handing over the strategic high ground to enemy forces; his suggestion that a Palestinian state be "contiguous" by definition slices Israel in half; his failure to recognize the incoherence of the so-called "right of return" destroys Israel demographically.

Obama has backed the Muslim Brotherhood revolts throughout the Middle East and toppled Israeli peace partners in the process; he has appointed advisers who openly call for placing American troops on the ground in Israel to stop Israeli military action; he has allowed the United Nations to castigate Israel routinely while ignoring Palestinian terrorism on a daily basis. Obama is a man who used his Passover message to stump for the Muslim Brotherhood-backed Arab Spring. Seriously.

Simply put, Obama is an enemy of the Jewish people and the State of Israel. And any Jew who votes for him betrays his or her brothers and sisters at home and abroad. By definition, a vote for Obama is a vote against the truly Jewish part of Jewish identity. There is a reason that the observant Jewish community votes overwhelmingly Republican – they vote on Jewish principle.

Why bother exposing JINOs for what they are? First, it helps non-Jews understand the dynamics of the Jewish community – it is not monolithic, and much of it is not authentically Jewish.

Second, it acts as a shaming mechanism for those Jews who throw away Jewish principle in pursuit of back-slapping from their liberal buddies. And they should be ashamed of what they do. They are the moral equivalent of Jewish Neville Chamberlain voters in 1939. They must understand that their votes have consequences.

Jewish identity is about more than ethnicity. Boiling it down to a propensity for "Seinfeld" cheapens the experience, the history and the bond of Judaism itself. Being Jewish means something. And if it means anything, it means that voting for Barack Obama immediately places you in opposition to the Jewish people.


source
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 08:40 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
BTW

I notice you failed to provide us with "a comprehensive, coherent, and fact based explanation for your take on stawman".

Why do you think that is?
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 10:48 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Because you and foofie dont accept arguements that dont fall in line with your beliefs. I hate any government that kills one group of people than looks for excuses for these murders such as they are all terriosts. This gives those governments excuses to do all manner of illegal things under the gise of protection when what they are doing is stealing land that dosent belong to them and murdering people who might protest this stealing of property. A dead palistianian is a good palistianian as the jewish leadership would say. We had the same thing happen here with the native indians and the europian jews have taken a page from our book. Why dont you address the facts rather than trying to label me a racist. Could it be that that the facts are in my favor?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 11:09 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Because you and foofie dont accept arguements that dont fall in line with your beliefs. I hate any government that kills one group of people than looks for excuses for these murders such as they are all terriosts. This gives those governments excuses to do all manner of illegal things under the gise of protection when what they are doing is stealing land that dosent belong to them and murdering people who might protest this stealing of property. A dead palistianian is a good palistianian as the jewish leadership would say. We had the same thing happen here with the native indians and the europian jews have taken a page from our book. Why dont you address the facts rather than trying to label me a racist. Could it be that that the facts are in my favor?


The "facts are in" your favor, as long as you ignore the sovereignty of Israel having its land and people attacked for having won legitimate wars. You ignore the wars ('48, '57 '67, '73) where legitimate Arab armies were attempting to push the Jews into the sea. The land that Israel "stole" was land that reflected Israel winning wars, and gives Israel bargaining chips for any attempt at peace with people that want them out of the land completely. There is no peace with certain elements in the Middle East. So, with Israel facing that mindset, who is to say whose land is whose? When facing people that just want to annihilate you, it may require a reaccessment of what one does to survive. This many need not contemplate, since most critics outside the Middle East live very easy western existences where no one wants to annihilate them.

Perhaps, the U.S.A. needs to give some states back to Mexico? Other borders in Europe likely need realignment also?

You, like many that side with the Palestineans, seem to have two sets of international rules. One for the Jews, and one for everybody else. Don't agree with me, I believe you should be angry with Israel. That is a little vindication for Jews learning how to survive in a world that had no room for them after two-thousand years in Europe and more in the Arab countries.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 12:05 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
The "facts are in" your favor, as long as you ignore the sovereignty of Israel having its land and people attacked for having won legitimate wars.


What's a legitimate war, Foofie? Is that Hitler attacked and took various parts of Europe? Is a legitimate war one that can be defined as might makes right?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 07:10 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
The "facts are in" your favor, as long as you ignore the sovereignty of Israel having its land and people attacked for having won legitimate wars.


What's a legitimate war, Foofie? Is that Hitler attacked and took various parts of Europe? Is a legitimate war one that can be defined as might makes right?


The wars that Israel was involved in against Arab armies were legitimate, since they were in self-defense, due to the Arab armies wanted to annihilate Israel. I would guess you already knew this, and were just funning with me.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 12:54 am
@Foofie,
So you agree that Israel has done a 180 degree turn about and have decided to annihilate the palistianians so as to incorporate all of the pals land unto them selves? As someone else said that is a might makes right attitude that is Hitleresque. But they are only doing what they have done for 10,000 years. Just read the Old Testament.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 01:21 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

So you agree that Israel has done a 180 degree turn about and have decided to annihilate the palistianians so as to incorporate all of the pals land unto them selves? As someone else said that is a might makes right attitude that is Hitleresque. But they are only doing what they have done for 10,000 years. Just read the Old Testament.


You are putting words into my mouth. Please refrain from extrapolating incorrectly in this manner on my posts. It could be viewed as offensive.

I just said they fought and won legitimate wars. That has nothing to do with anyone "annihilating" anyone. The Israelies may have felt that the goal was to annihilate them, since it was 300 million Arabs in the countries that attacked them, against less than six million Jews?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 03:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Good Lord do you Lefties even know what a "stawman"[sic] argument is?



=================

It seems that Rabel knows what it is, Finn. Do you?


straw man n.

...

2) an argument which is intended to distract the other side from the real issues or waste the opponent's time and effort, sometimes called a "red herring" (for the belief that drawing a fish across a trail will mislead hunting dogs).

Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/strawman
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 04:37 pm
@Foofie,
Am I mistaken in the belief that there are only about 10 million pals in the region, not 300 million. Its figures like this that makes it hard to pay any attention to the truth of your and many of the other conseratives statements. And as far as twisting the content of statements most of the conseratives have a lock on the half lie and misreading the truth of those statements unless they fall in line with thier beliefs. Screw truth, just believe what I say.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jul, 2011 04:07 pm
THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE WANT PEACE. NOT!

6 in 10 Palestinians reject 2-state solution, survey finds

73% of 1,010 Palestinians in W. Bank, Gaza agree with the Hamas Charter quote, 'hadith,' about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones, trees.

by Gil Hoffman, Jerusalem Post, July 15, 2011

Only one in three Palestinians (34 percent) accepts two states for two peoples as the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, according to an intensive, face-to-face survey in Arabic of 1,010 Palestinian adults in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip completed this week by American pollster Stanley Greenberg.

The poll, which has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, was conducted in partnership with the Beit Sahour-based Palestinian Center for Public Opinion and sponsored by the Israel Project, an international nonprofit organization that provides journalists and leaders with information about the Middle East.

The Israel Project is trying to reach out to the Arab world to promote "people-to-people peace." The poll appears to indicate that the organization has a difficult task ahead.

Respondents were asked about US President Barack Obama's statement that "there should be two states: Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people and Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people."

Just 34% said they accepted that concept, while 61% rejected it.

Sixty-six percent said the Palestinians' real goal should be to start with a two-state solution but then move to it all being one Palestinian state.

Asked about the fate of Jerusalem, 92% said it should be the capital of Palestine, 1% said the capital of Israel, 3% the capital of both, and 4% a neutral international city.

Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem, 62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage, and 53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools.

When given a quote from the Hamas Charter about the need for battalions from the Arab and Islamic world to defeat the Jews, 80% agreed. Seventy-three percent agreed with a quote from the charter (and a hadith, or tradition ascribed to the prophet Muhammad) about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones and trees.

But only 45% said they believed in the charter's statement that the only solution to the Palestinian problem was jihad.

The survey's more positive findings included that only 22% supported firing rockets at Israeli cities and citizens and that two-thirds preferred diplomatic engagement over violent "resistance."

Among Palestinians in general 65% preferred talks and 20% violence. In the West Bank it was 69-28%, and in Gaza, 59- 32%.

Asked whether they backed seeking a Palestinian state unilaterally in the UN, 64% said yes. The number was 57% in the West Bank and 79% in Gaza. Thirty-seven percent said the UN action would bring a Palestinian state closer, 16% said it would set back the establishment of a state, and 44% said it would make no difference.

When asked what Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas's top priorities should be, 83% said creating jobs. Just 4% said getting the UN to recognize a Palestinian state, and only 2% said peace talks with Israel.

Israel Project president Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi said she was encouraged that the Arab Spring would bring more accuracy to Arab media and by the 59% of Palestinians who are on Facebook. The Israel Project has 80,723 friends for its Arabic site, which has had 9.5 million page views in two months.

"Some of the numbers in the poll are discouraging, but we are trying to change them," she said at a Jerusalem press conference in which Greenberg presented the findings.

Greenberg said the survey proved that there was a big need for public education and leadership on the Palestinian side.

Greenberg and Laszlo Mizrahi have presented the findings to President Shimon Peres, opposition leader Tzipi Livni, Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, Vice Premier Moshe Ya'alon and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's senior adviser, Ron Dermer.

Next week, they have meetings scheduled in the White House and the Pentagon. Israeli leaders told Greenberg and Laszlo Mizrahi they were encouraged by Palestinian support for talks.

"The Palestinians want solutions, not revolutions," Peres told them according to Laszlo Mizrahi.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 07:11 pm
What a nice change!

A story about Israelis & Palestinians to actually smile about.

Quote:
Women protesters take a risky dip into Israeli politics
Ethan Bronner
July 28, 2011



Activists smuggle in West Bank Palestinians for a day at the beach.


http://images.theage.com.au/2011/07/27/2519597/art-palestine-swim-women-420x0.jpg

Palestinian women and girls enjoy the water with the Israeli women who smuggled them in from the occupied West Bank. Photo: New York Times


SKITTISH at first, then wide-eyed with delight, the women and girls entered the sea, smiling, splashing and then joining hands, getting knocked over by waves, throwing back their heads and laughing with joy. Most had never seen the sea before.

The women were Palestinians from the southern part of the occupied West Bank, which is landlocked, and Israel does not allow them in.


They risked prosecution, along with the dozen Israeli women who took them to the beach in Tel Aviv. And that, in fact, was part of the point: to protest what they and their hosts consider unjust laws.

The group of Israeli women, who have done this several times before, risked criminal prosecution to bring the Palestinian women to the city, breaking what they consider an unjust law.

http://images.theage.com.au/2011/07/27/2519603/art353-palestine-plates-200x0.jpg
The Palestinians cover their faces at lunch in Israel. Photo: New York Times

In the grinding rut of Israeli-Palestinian relations the illicit trip was a rare event that joined the simplest of pleasures with the most complex of politics. It showed why co-existence here is hard, but also why there are, on both sides, people who refuse to give up on it.

''What we are doing here will not change the situation,'' said Hanna Rubinstein, who travelled to Tel Aviv from Haifa to take part. ''But it is one more activity to oppose the occupation. One day in the future, people will ask, like they did of the Germans, 'Did you know?' And I will be able to say, 'I knew. And I acted.'' ....<cont>


http://www.theage.com.au/world/women-protesters-take-a-risky-dip-into-israeli-politics-20110727-1i06x.html
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 11:59 pm
Apologies in advance for posting this article to this thread.

But I wanted to post this article for discussion but couldn't find a thread that appeared to be the "right" one. So this thread will have to be it.

I have been reading about this particular issue (gender separation) in Israel, between ultra-orthodox jews & their more secular counterparts, for days now & wondered if some of you with more knowledge could contribute information & your insights about what has been occurring.


Quote:
Anger over children dressed as Holocaust victims
Updated January 02, 2012 15:19:47/the AGE

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/3755074-3x2-700x467.jpg
Jewish demonstrators with boy wearing cloth cap and Star of David inscribed with Photo: Provocative: The boy is raising his hands in an echo of a photo taken in the Warsaw Ghetto during World War II (Reuters: Baz Ratner)

Ultra-Orthodox Jewish demonstrators have caused outrage by dressing children as Holocaust victims to protest against what they saw is the persecution of devout Jews seeking gender separation in Israel.

A boy wearing a cloth cap and the sidecurls of an Orthodox Jew was the centrepiece of the Jerusalem protest late on Saturday.

His hands were raised in surrender and a yellow Star of David inscribed with "Jude" - German for "Jew" - was sewn on his jacket.

The image mimicked a memorable photo of a terrified Jewish boy during a roundup in the Nazi-occupied Warsaw ghetto in World War II.

"Nazis, Nazis," some of the protesters shouted at police.

Other children and young men were dressed in replicas of striped concentration camp uniforms, alongside hundreds of ultra-Orthodox Jews in their traditional black garb.

The protesters earned a sharp rebuke from Israel's government.

"Prisoner uniforms and yellow patches with the word Jew written on them in German are shocking and appalling," defence minister Ehud Barak said in a statement.

"The use of yellow patches and small children raising their hands in surrender crosses a red line which the ultra-Orthodox leadership, who are largely responsible people, must not accept," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/3755166-3x2-700x467.jpg
German troops force Warsaw ghetto dwellers to keep moving in 1943. Photo: (Wikimedia)

Emotional debate

Israel is in the grip of an emotional debate over attempts by Jewish zealots to impose and enforce gender separation in ultra-Orthodox neighbourhoods and other public places.

Much of the controversy has stemmed from ultra-Orthodox men trying to force women to sit in the back of public buses in deference to religious beliefs against any mixing of the sexes in public.

President Shimon Peres has described the debate as a battle for the soul of the Jewish state.

The issue jumped to the top of the public agenda in Israel nearly two weeks ago when an eight-year-old girl complained on television that ultra-Orthodox men spat at her on the way to school, accusing her of dressing immodestly.

Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has political alliances with ultra-Orthodox parties but is facing mounting public anger over such incidents, has vowed to crack down on zealots who harass women.


Some groups within the ultra-Orthodox community do not recognise Israel, saying such a state can only be established with the coming of the Messiah.

"You will not be able to impose on us sinful (Western) culture. We will remain faithful to the laws of Holy Torah," read one protest sign at Saturday's demonstration.

Avner Shalev, chairman of Yad Vashem, Israel's national memorial to the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis, said the protesters' use of Holocaust imagery was a "profound insult" to survivors.

"This is totally unacceptable and degrades Jewish values," Mr Shalev said on Israel Radio.

Reuters


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-02/anger-over-children-dressed-as-holocaust-victims/3755114
0 Replies
 
 

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