McGentrix wrote:Her car wrecked because it was hit by an RPG shot by iraqi soldiers during an ambush. She was held captive as a POW until other soldiers risked their own lives to recue her. Seems like good copy to me.
What is it about this story that gets you so riled up?
Risking their lifes? There were no Iraqi soldiers in the neighbourhood when the US copters landed in the hospitals garden. It was one big parade.
frolic wrote:McGentrix wrote:Her car wrecked because it was hit by an RPG shot by iraqi soldiers during an ambush. She was held captive as a POW until other soldiers risked their own lives to recue her. Seems like good copy to me.
What is it about this story that gets you so riled up?
Risking their lifes? There were no Iraqi soldiers in the neighbourhood when the US copters landed in the hospitals garden. It was one big parade.
They knew that? I don't think so. The hospital was still behind Iraqi controlled territory at the time. There was no intelligence to show a lack of hostile forces encamped n the hospital. Past experience had shown that hospitals and schools were prime locations for Fedayen (sp?) fighters.
So, yes, they risked their lives.
And i bet you got a sane explanation for the ambulance(With Jessica Lynch in it) being shot by US soldiers. Fog of war, i knew it!
McG-- I was going to ask the same thing last night, but just passed it by. I shouldn't have.
The guys who rescued her couldn't have been sure if the doc was giving accurate info on who was there at the hospital. They would've been goofy if they had just believed him and waltzed in there. They went in as if it could have been a set up--ready for all contingencies.
She was a hostage in wartime. It has amazed me how everyone seems so quick to denigrate this rescue operation. I think they did a great job getting her out, and I'm glad they did it. A few of her compadres wound up dead. It was serious.
frolic-- What is your explanation about shooting at an ambulance? Did Bush order the execution of Lynch?
I cant find a sane explanation. But a warzone is for insane people so it makes sense. And I dont think its normal behaviour to shoot at ambulances, no matter who's in it.
I'd like to know where the contention that her vehicle was hit by an RPG comes from. Everything i've read says it was a vehicle wreck, no more and no less. Got a source for that rather exaggerated contention?
The only sane reasons I can imagine is taking fire FROM the ambulance, or shooting at hostage takers in or around the ambulance...
Also, if a country is using women and children as sheilds, they aren't above using ambulances as transport for troops and weapons.
To tell you the truth, I've suspended judgement about the whole thing. The story about "getting lost" is one I find hard to believe. Still, I am a little frustrated with myself for doubting those kids. What they went through was horrific.
I'm still waiting on the confirmed story.
One of the guys, who was caught with Lynch's group denied the 'getting lost' story. He was a young black man in Walter Reed, being interviewed on TV. They didn't ask him a follow up, and I haven't heard anything else from him. I want to hear what he has to say. I'm betting he got a severe 'de-briefing' after that.
Did anyone else see that interview?
We all have to wait for the movie to come out to know the real STORY.
Rehabs are filled with people who are in denial about their problems.
Two things, McG. How come you are so willing to believe news reports about anything Clinton did as absolute truth, and unwilling to believe news reports that verify sources and stories that don't agree with you?
McG says:
"I think I may have discovered the fundamental difference between us. You blame our administration for going over there and I blame Hussein for making us go over there. I think that is what it boils down to. Where you lay the blame."
And that's the other thing. How did Hussein make us go over there? He sent troops to escort us? He declared war on us? He attacked us? More and more, the facts emerging are that this administration lied and bullied its way into Iraq. Nobody invited us; nobody wanted us. The Bush babies wanted this war, not for the Iraqis' betterment but for their own ends - everything coming out now all over the world shows more and more evidence of this.
That statement - Saddam made us - is a shining example of the schoolyard mentality that has been so prevalent. "He made me hit him because of the way he was looking at me."
You're aware of the fact that there was no declaration of war, no signed surrender?
You're right. There is a fundamental difference between us. And it's one of the reasons the whole Rove deck is falling, card by card. It was all built on lies, then worked with smoke and mirrors. And then, nobody willing to take responsibility for anything - Saddam Hussein made us go. This is one of the most explanatory statements I've heard about all of this yet. It's quotable. It's the stuff cartoons are made of. It's also the kind of story that gets a look from Judge Judy when two kids appear in her court with the same kind of statement. Adults have grown beyond that.
frolic wrote:I cant find a sane explanation. But a warzone is for insane people so it makes sense. And I dont think its normal behaviour to shoot at ambulances, no matter who's in it.
Yeah, its for insane people - and people who've sworn a vow to be there if called.
frolic, YOu capitalized the wrong word. It should have been 'REAL.'
c.i.
McGentrix wrote: I blame Hussein for making us go over there. .
there's a sucker born every minute and you just happen to come along at the right time.
Yeah, the devil made me do it.
The rescue attempt sent in the appropriate amount of force for the task at hand. It turned out to be more than needed but it's better to find that out than to find out the converse.
But the issue of propaganda IS relevant. This was a story that was capitalized on by the PR people, that much is fact, not speculation.
The subjective issues are about whether the propaganda went too far in the portrayal. I think they did, but really don't care.
It's common for the military to give a false spin on things that happen. Just look up how many people die after bravely killing whole platoons of the enemy and how many of those guys were only felled because of the ubiquitous jammed gun.
This case is nothing new, it was just one of the ones in which the PR guys went too far for their own good.
Any military that does not seek to use news management in this age is stupid. So we'll have to get used to it.
I think there is a difference between news management and lying.
News management is not new. There have always been court jesters.
Setanta wrote:I'd like to know where the contention that her vehicle was hit by an RPG comes from. Everything i've read says it was a vehicle wreck, no more and no less. Got a source for that rather exaggerated contention?
link
Washington Post wrote:CHARLESTON, W.Va. - Former POW Jessica Lynch is expected to be out of the hospital and back home in West Virginia by the end of the month, a family spokesman said Friday.
Family spokesman Randy Coleman said doctors at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., said Lynch could be released in two weeks.
Doctors still need to do some tests as part of the discharge process before a release date is set, but Lynch is progressing, hospital spokeswoman Beverly Chidel said.
"Early on, there was a lot of pain," Chidel said. "Now she's looking better, she's upbeat and she's very talkative. She participates with her treatments and wants to do more."
Lynch's 507th Maintenance Company convoy was ambushed March 23 near the Iraqi city of Nasiriyah. Eleven soldiers from the convoy, including two from the 3rd Forward Support Battalion, were killed. Five others were captured and held apart from Lynch for three weeks before their release.
Lynch, a 20-year-old Army supply clerk, received multiple broken bones and other injuries after her Humvee utility vehicle was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade during the ambush and crashed into another vehicle. She was in an Iraqi hospital in Nasiriyah where she was rescued by special forces on April 1.
The rescue, videotaped by troops, made an American hero out of the petite blonde from rural West Virginia who joined the Army to get an education and become a teacher.
Volunteers have worked since April remodeling the family home in Palestine, about 70 miles north of Charleston.
Lew Peck, a Wirt County deputy sheriff, took several weeks off work to oversee construction, said the house should be finished in time for Lynch's return.
That's odd, I had a hard time finding an article that DIDN'T mention it.
dyslexia wrote:McGentrix wrote: I blame Hussein for making us go over there. .
there's a sucker born every minute and you just happen to come along at the right time.
Way to stick to the topic. I am glad to see that you haven't changed your tactics and you remain an upstanding example of liberalism on this board.
ehBeth,
I agree, thing is many complaints are not about the lies. The out and out lies wre actually quite few in this case.
Things about the rescue for e.g. were simply misleading, not lies. Though some details about her capture and subsequent treatment mey well have been lies.
What I'd consider a lie (if this was intentional) was that she was supposed to have been shot and stabbed and gone down heroically, or the testimony alledged to have been given by the man who reported her whereabouts. The rest is just normal.
Simply put, I care more about the dliberate spin during the march to war than war-time public relations. Much of the blame for the spin on Lynch should rest with the American public and the media, they did more than the PR fellas could have hoped for.
Craven -- What you write about the spin, the media, and the public is quite right. Where I think you're way off target is when you write: "...simply misleading, not lies." We're used to the media and corporations being "misleading" and we take it into account when signing on for everything from a new car to the TV channel we turn into.
But the government and its agencies should never, ever be allowed the latitude of "misleading" the electorate. That's just a no-no. Once we start condoning little lies (which is what misleading is), we can hardly complain about the big ones.
