The Vagina Monologues.

Why you talking about pugs? Are you trying to say a pug's face looks like a vagina?

now that you mention it.....

patiodog, I learned the "proactive egg" thing during a class on woman's biology, or something, which had a feminist slant, and I remember that this came up in terms of how supposedly factual, clinical texts had their biases. For example, all kinds of superlatives were used for the vast amount of sperm a man produces -- prodigious! Amazing! -- but menstruation was talked about as a waste -- the uterine wall built up and sloughed off, serving no purpose.

I couldn't really find anything about it specifically, but this is interesting:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/virtualembryo/fertiliz.html

I've been reading snippets lately of Sarah Blaffer Hrdy's "Mother Nature," which talks a bit about the gender biases that have pervaded biology, esp. as the discipline rose to prominence in the crucible of Victorianism. In strict energy budget terms, though, menstruation really is wasteful; a lot of material is built up and then, as you say, sloughed. On the flip side of the coin, though, the female of the species is capable of reproduction several times a year, so it's an adaptation that one out in spite of the energy investment it requires.

Not to be a big guy about it, but there have been some fascinating revelations in recent years about sperm activity -- that not all sperm are capable of fertilizing, that many of those that are not seem to function as killers of the sperm of other males.

The article you link to, after the intial paragraph about examining your source texts for unintended political aspersions, goes on with a pretty dry account of mammalian fertilization. It's so hard to get into mo-bio and biochem if you're not invested in it -- so much detail, so many paragraphs dedicated to saying that gamete recognition is just like every other sort of cell recognition: each species has particular sugars and proteins on its cell membranes, and there are further variations within species, etc. It's very important work, but I just can't get fired up about it (though I'm surrounded by detail-monsters who like nothing better)...

I love that stuff.

The point with menstruation/ sperm is that it seems like if one is a waste, so is the other. Both have no "point" except for when pregnancy results.

There have been lots of really interesting findings about the functions of menstruation, too. Margie Profet has some good stuff on that.

http://www.lifesci.utexas.edu/courses/mcmurry/spring98/20/profet.html

""Menstruation as a defense against pathogens transported by sperm"

TO MUCH INFORMATION
:wink: :wink:

Yeah, you people keep your pathogens away from us!!!!

Hmmm, very interesting link. Can point out that the energy needed for sperm and semen production is very small compared to the energy required to regenerated endometrium every month -- but this only provides a argumentative evidence that menstruation may confer advantages beyond mere reproduction. It does stand to reason that traffic through an opening (even before taking immune response into consideration) is advantageous to stasis. All of our other sinuses and passages are constantly flowing with stuff, including the male reproductive tract...

...there's no such thing, in my opinion. This is an opinion that has made for some uncomfortable family dinners, but that's another matter entirely...

patiodog is absolutely right, even internally, men battle over chicks....makes me wonder about our war-like hardwiring....all because of sperm? DNA is DNA I suppose....

cav that's what I was talking about though, it looks like (and I still haven't found a good link for this -- patiodog's was pretty good) that there is this whole interplay between the sperm and the egg, especially the zona pellucida thing, where the sperm basically knocks, hey, hi, you gonna let me in? and then there is some chemically stuff and then a slit appears (it seems to be somewhat unclear whether the head-banging sperm makes it or the egg does it) and then the sperm by that slit is in like flynn.

Gotta be a metaphor or five there, tho.

Oh wait I just realized you were talking about the fratricidal sperm. ("Friendly fire"! Heh.)

Nemmind.

Well, yeah -- was talking about both at different times (which goes back to the compatible vs. incompatible gametes on the neanderthal thread). Basically, there are certain structures on the outside of cells that fit inside certain structures on the outside of other cells. This triggers various chemical responses, depending on the trigger. Like, if you've got type A blood, you have antibodies that recognize the stuff on the outside of type B blood cells and kill them (a gross oversimplification).

But I've digressed very far. I think the idea here is to celebrate vaginas (and why not?), not describe what goes on inside them in a clinical fashion...

Gamete, set, match then? Love your vagina, and have it loved...and tell us men all about it, cuz we're creepy that way, lol.

I don't think the two are incompatible. Knowledge is power and all that, and this is one area where I've found book-learnin' useful. ("It says that if we do that like that, this may happen. Hey! Whaddya know!")

Not a book to check out of a public library, I think.

and why not, pdog?

sticky pages, li'l-kay.

eeeeeeewwwwwwwww

You'd be surprised. "Biology of Women" by Ethel Sloane looks innocent enough but has some interesting stuff. (That's also where I got a lot of this about menstruation vs. sperm production et al.)