1
   

Why do you still support Bush?

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 04:07 pm
Advocate wrote:
The last time I looked this thread is on Bush. The right is doing it best to instead make it a discussion of Kerry, Cindy, Pelosi, et al. I guess Bush can't stand scrutiny.


Speaking of Kerry .... have you stopped adding to the list of the "mountain" of his accomplishments? Or are you still trying to dig something up?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 07:06 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Huh. I agree with C.I for once. Go figure.


On which side? Or do you agree with both as he does?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 09:42 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Rex wrote:
Show us any democrat that has done anything constructive lately for ANY party other than aiding and comforting the ENEMY?

My point, precisely!~ Most democrats are "lost souls" without a rudder.


agreeing with this post...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 10:48 pm
McGentrix wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Rex wrote:
Show us any democrat that has done anything constructive lately for ANY party other than aiding and comforting the ENEMY?

My point, precisely!~ Most democrats are "lost souls" without a rudder.


agreeing with this post...


LOL. Okay. I rather thought that, but was just making sure you hadn't turned into a toady for the verbal bullies. Smile
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 10:52 pm
Advocate's post shows the most supreme ignorance. RexRed answered him correctly. President Bush is a civil servant. It may be that advocate is confused. Many left wing liberals become confused when they read the evidence.

First of all, the only person who attacked another country in the last twenty years WITHOUT Congressional approval was Bill Clinton when he ordered missiles to bomb Baghdad in December 1998. Clinton received NO congressional approval.

Secondly, Mr. Advocate appears to be completely ignorant of the fact that President Bush went to the Senate and the House to GET AUTHORITY TO SEND TROOPS TO IRAQ.

Mr. Advocate's comment: How many people has Bush killed in Iraq is a comment made by someone who is completely ignorant of events.

According to Bob Woodward, in his book "Bush At War" P. 351---Bush killed no one in Iraq--Bush did not go to Iraq--American troops went to Iraq. They did the killing--Bush did not send the troops to Iraq UNTIL he got the approval of the Congress. The Congress could have turned him down. They did not. The Congress gave the President AUTHORITY to send troops to Iraq.

Here is the quote from Woodward--

"On October 10 and 11 the House and the Senate overwhelmingly voted to grant the president full authority to attack Iraq unilaterally, The vote in the House was 296 to 133, and in the Senate 77 to 232. THE CONGRESS GAVE BUSH THE FULL GO-AHEAD TO USE THE MILITARY AS HE DETERMINES TO BE NECESSARY AND APPROPRIATE TO DEFEND AGAINST THE THREAT OF IRAQ"


Does Mr. Advocate ever read in depth? It appears that he does not!!!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 11:15 pm
"...AS HE DETERMINES TO BE NECESSARY AND APPROPRIATE TO DEFEND AGAINST THE THREAT OF IRAQ"

There was no threat. Show us where Saddam made threats against the US by action or words.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 12:17 am
CI I'm sorry,

I skimmed through it.

Fear mongering!

CI Leave Israel alone...

If the Palestinians could control their own people and stop firing missiles into Israel on a daily basis, Israel would not have a problem with their own "left" or anybody else...

The far left in this country is blind to terrorism and ideologies of "hate" so it is no wonder they cannot see the enemy of Israel is the same exact enemy to the "free" world and the same enemy in the "war on terror".

I will tell you what the definition of terror is.

Mob ruled extreme legalistic religion and forced civil submission. (I made that definition.)

Liberty is the only way to ensure that religious choice is protected.

The Palestinians voted in the MOB... Al Qaeda has infiltrated their society as they did the Taliban in Afghanistan.

So they will suffer the corruption and decay of their social infrastructure because they took the road of death and old hatred rather than liberty and peace.

I just can't seem to have sympathy for most of the Palestinians.

They cheered when the twin towers fell!!!!

Allah (PBUH) owns the land not some hateful people who think they have a right kill and murder people over it just because they claim it as theirs. Allah (PBUH) is SHAMED by the Palestinians for the envy of their neighbor.

The Palestinians are a terrorist state.

http://kjbbn.net/9-11%20and%20the%20arab%20palestinian%20reaction%20to%20it.htm

CI, That stuff you dig up is just plain crud.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 01:13 am
Mr. Cicerone does not know, apparently, that the words--"Necessary and appropriate to defend against the threat of Iraq" were in the enabling legislation.

Mr. Imposter might want to ask the Congress that question.

But, I am sure that Mr. Imposter knows more than the Congress.

Some members of the Congress and the Clinton Administration before them were very worried.


Madeline Albright, the Secretary of State( surely a person that has LITTLE OR NO INFORMATION)

Iraq is a long way from the USA, but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons against us OR OUR ALLIES is the greatest SECURITY THREAT that we face"

A group of Democratic Senators( Levin, Daschle, and Kerry) urged the president

"to take necessary actions( if appropriate, air strikes on suspect IRAQI sites) to respond effectively to the THREAT posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

NANCY PELOSI- A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE( surely, she has NO information) said:

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is A THREAT to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process"

(She almost sounds like a Republican)

Senator Carl LevinDemocrat-Michigan, in a letter to President Bush, wrote
"In the four years since the Inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemcial and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists, including AL-QAEDA MEMBERS."

Al Gore said( in 2002)

"We know that Saddam has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country"

and, in the same year, Gore said:

:Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has been impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power"

And last, but certainly not least--John Kerry--who said in 2002--

I WILL BE VOTING TO GIVE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES THE AUTHORITY TO USE FORCE--IF NECESSARY-- TO DISARM SADDAM HUSSEIN BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT A DEADLY ARSENALOF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN HIS HANDS IS A REAL AND GRAVE
T H R E A T TO OUR SECURITY>'





Now, Those Democratic Office Holders certainly believed that Iraq was a threat--But Mr. Imposter says "NO", so I guess their comments mean nothing!!!
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 01:30 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
"...AS HE DETERMINES TO BE NECESSARY AND APPROPRIATE TO DEFEND AGAINST THE THREAT OF IRAQ"

There was no threat. Show us where Saddam made threats against the US by action or words.
C.i., You are arguing with people whos argument is warrantless. Here however is a very good article iv'e read lately.

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/articles/060606fege02

"But the Niger claim, unlike other allegations, can't be dismissed as an innocent error or blamed on ambiguous data. "This wasn't an accident," says Milt Bearden, a 30-year C.I.A. veteran who was a station chief in Pakistan, Sudan, Nigeria, and Germany, and the head of the Soviet-East European division. "This wasn't 15 monkeys in a room with typewriters."

Laughing

"Some of them refer to the Niger documents as "a disinformation operation," others as "black propaganda," "black ops," or "a classic psy-ops [psychological-operations] campaign." But whatever term they use, at least nine of these officials believe that the Niger documents were part of a covert operation to deliberately mislead the American public.

The officials are Bearden; Colonel W. Patrick Lang, who served as the D.I.A.'s defense intelligence officer for the Middle East, South Asia, and terrorism; Colonel Larry Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell; Melvin Goodman, a former division chief and senior analyst at the C.I.A. and the State Department; Ray McGovern, a C.I.A. analyst for 27 years; Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, who served in the Pentagon's Near East and South Asia division in 2002 and 2003; Larry C. Johnson, a former C.I.A. officer who was deputy director of the State Department Office of Counterterrorism from 1989 to 1993; former C.I.A. official Philip Giraldi; and Vincent Cannistraro, the former chief of operations of the C.I.A.'s Counterterrorism Center."
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 02:32 am
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 02:39 am
Just so Mr. Imposter will not lose track of the reasons why Iraq was considered a THREAT( bY Democrats)

************************************************************

Mr. Cicerone does not know, apparently, that the words--"Necessary and appropriate to defend against the threat of Iraq" were in the enabling legislation.

Mr. Imposter might want to ask the Congress that question.

But, I am sure that Mr. Imposter knows more than the Congress.

Some members of the Congress and the Clinton Administration before them were very worried.


Madeline Albright, the Secretary of State( surely a person that has LITTLE OR NO INFORMATION)

Iraq is a long way from the USA, but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons against us OR OUR ALLIES is the greatest SECURITY THREAT that we face"

A group of Democratic Senators( Levin, Daschle, and Kerry) urged the president

"to take necessary actions( if appropriate, air strikes on suspect IRAQI sites) to respond effectively to the THREAT posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

NANCY PELOSI- A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE( surely, she has NO information) said:

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is A THREAT to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process"

(She almost sounds like a Republican)

Senator Carl LevinDemocrat-Michigan, in a letter to President Bush, wrote
"In the four years since the Inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemcial and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists, including AL-QAEDA MEMBERS."

Al Gore said( in 2002)

"We know that Saddam has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country"

and, in the same year, Gore said:

:Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has been impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power"

And last, but certainly not least--John Kerry--who said in 2002--

I WILL BE VOTING TO GIVE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES THE AUTHORITY TO USE FORCE--IF NECESSARY-- TO DISARM SADDAM HUSSEIN BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT A DEADLY ARSENALOF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN HIS HANDS IS A REAL AND GRAVE
T H R E A T TO OUR SECURITY>'





Now, Those Democratic Office Holders certainly believed that Iraq was a threat--But Mr. Imposter says "NO", so I guess their comments mean nothing!!!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 02:54 am
BernardR wrote:

First of all, the only person who attacked another country in the last twenty years WITHOUT Congressional approval was Bill Clinton when he ordered missiles to bomb Baghdad in December 1998. Clinton received NO congressional approval.


Was that the night before the famous explanation to the grand jury by old Bill about what the meaning of the word "is" is? That contribution to history by the Clintons ranks right up there with their giving of nuclear technology to the guy in North Korea. What a legacy!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 03:03 am
okie wrote:
BernardR wrote:

First of all, the only person who attacked another country in the last twenty years WITHOUT Congressional approval was Bill Clinton when he ordered missiles to bomb Baghdad in December 1998. Clinton received NO congressional approval.


Was that the night before the famous explanation to the grand jury by old Bill about what the meaning of the word "is" is? That contribution to history by the Clintons ranks right up there with their giving of nuclear technology to the guy in North Korea. What a legacy!



Bill Clinton was ten times the president George Dumbya Bush is.

Conservatives hate him because before he came to office, the conservatives of this country thought they had a veto over who could be elected to the presidency...and Clinton not only showed you knee-jerk fools you were wrong...he did it twice.

Each time he won, you pathetic children fell to the floor; kicked your heels; and held your breath 'til you turned blue.

I love it!

Seeing you are still at it.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 03:10 am
Okie- I am stunned. Seldom have I seen such a concentration of reasoned arguments using fact and evidence as I note in the post by Mr. Frank Apisa!! He must, of course, because of his agile debating ability be placed among the giants in the field.

I was ready to respond to his post but after I read it again, all I could really do is snicker in amazement!!!
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 03:49 am
Here are the sources for my article Benard.

The officials are;

Milt Bearden a 30-year C.I.A. veteran who was a station chief in Pakistan, Sudan, Nigeria, and Germany, and the head of the Soviet-East European division.

Colonel W. Patrick Lang, who served as the D.I.A.'s defense intelligence officer for the Middle East, South Asia, and terrorism

Colonel Larry Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell

Melvin Goodman, a former division chief and senior analyst at the C.I.A. and the State Department

Ray McGovern, a C.I.A. analyst for 27 years

Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, who served in the Pentagon's Near East and South Asia division in 2002 and 2003

Larry C. Johnson, a former C.I.A. officer who was deputy director of the State Department Office of Counterterrorism from 1989 to 1993

former C.I.A. official Philip Giraldi

and Vincent Cannistraro, the former chief of operations of the C.I.A.'s Counterterrorism Center."

Who are the sources for your article Benard???????????

And where is your link????????
0 Replies
 
Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:00 am
Here's something that might make you & george bu$h worth while Red:

Traveling cadaver show wants you
Body exhibit seeks donors in Boston
By Colin Nickerson, Globe Staff | July 9, 2006 http://tinyurl.com/ku3aq

GUBEN, Germany -- Dr. Gunther von Hagens, the German inventor of a body-preserving process called plastination, is always eager for volunteers, people willing to donate their corpses for his public anatomical displays. He says 6,800 individuals have pledged their mortal coils so far .

He hopes to add to that list when his traveling show reaches Boston later this month.

``Think of it as an alternative to being eaten by worms or going up in smoke," von Hagens said by phone from his Institute for Plastination in Heidelberg, Germany.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:09 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/opinion/09sun3.html
Even though it meant overruling the voters, intruding on state sovereignty and mangling the words of a federal statute, Chief Justice Roberts dissented . . .

July 9, 2006
Editorial Observer
What Chief Justice Roberts Forgot in His First Term: Judicial Modesty
By ADAM COHEN

At the confirmation hearings for John Roberts, there were two theories about what kind of a chief justice he would be. His critics maintained that he was an extreme conservative whose politics would drive his legal rulings. Judge Roberts, on the other hand, insisted that he was "not an ideologue," and that his judicial philosophy was to be "modest," which he defined as recognizing that judges should "decide the cases before them" and not try to legislate or "execute the laws."

Judicial modesty is an intriguing idea, with appeal across the political spectrum. For all the talk of liberal activist judges, anyone who is paying attention knows that conservative judges are every bit as activist as liberal ones; they just act for different reasons. A truly modest chief justice could be more deferential to the decisions of the democratically elected branches of government, both liberal and conservative, and perhaps even usher in a new, post-ideological era on the court.

That is not, however, how Chief Justice Roberts voted in his first term. He was modest in some cases, certainly, but generally ones in which criminal defendants, Democrats and other parties conservatives dislike were asking for something. When real estate developers, wealthy campaign contributors and other powerful parties wanted help, he was more inclined to support judicial action, even if it meant trampling on Congress and the states.

The term's major environmental ruling was a striking case in point. A developer sued when the Army Corps of Engineers denied him a permit to build on what it determined to be protected wetlands. The corps is under the Defense Department, ultimately part of an elected branch, and it was interpreting the Clean Water Act, passed by the other elected branch. Courts are supposed to give an enormous amount of deference to agencies' interpretations of the statutes they are charged with enforcing.

But Chief Justice Roberts did not defer. He joined a stridently anti-environmentalist opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia that sided with the developer and mocked the corps's interpretation of the law an interpretation four justices agreed with as "beyond parody." The opinion also complained that the corps's approach was too costly. Justice John Paul Stevens dryly noted that whether benefits outweighed costs was a policy question that "should not be answered by appointed judges."

In an opinion on assisted suicide, Chief Justice Roberts was again a conservative activist. The case involved Attorney General John Ashcroft's attempt to invoke an irrelevant federal statute to block Oregon's assisted suicide law, which the state's voters had adopted by referendum. Even though it meant overruling the voters, intruding on state sovereignty and mangling the words of a federal statute, Chief Justice Roberts dissented to support Mr. Ashcroft's position.

Chief Justice Roberts voted against another democratically enacted, progressive law when the court struck down Vermont's strict limits on campaign contributions. He joined an opinion that not only held that the law violated the First Amendment, but also engaged in the kind of fine judicial line-drawing in this case, about the precise dollar limits the Constitution allows states to impose that is often considered a hallmark of judicial activism.

One of the court's most nakedly activist undertakings in recent years is the series of hoops it has forced Congress to jump through when it passes laws that apply to the states. Judge John Noonan Jr., a federal appeals court judge appointed by President Ronald Reagan, has complained that the justices have set themselves up as the overseers of Congress. But Chief Justice Roberts voted to put up yet another hoop, requiring Congress to put the states on "clear notice" whatever that means before requiring them to pay for expert witnesses in lawsuits involving special education. It is a made-up rule that shows little respect for the people's representatives.

These cases make Chief Justice Roberts seem like a raging judicial activist. But in cases where conservative actions were being challenged, he was quite the opposite. When a whistle-blower in the Los Angeles district attorney's office claimed he was demoted for speaking out, Chief Justice Roberts could find no First Amendment injury. When Democrats challenged Republicans' partisan gerrymandering of Texas's Congressional districts, he could find no basis for interceding.

The Roberts court's first term was not radically conservative, but only because Justice Anthony Kennedy, the swing justice, steered it on a centrist path. If Chief Justice Roberts who voted with Justice Scalia a remarkable 88 percent of the time in nonunanimous cases had commanded a majority, it would have been an ideologically driven court that was both highly conservative and just about as activist as it needed to be to get the results it wanted.

Chief Justice Roberts still probably views himself as judicially modest, and in some ways he may be. He has been reasonably respectful of precedent, notably when he provided a fifth vote to uphold Buckley v. Valeo, a critically important campaign finance decision that is under attack from the right. He has also been inclined to decide cases narrowly, rather than to issue sweeping judicial pronouncements. But at his confirmation hearings, he defined judicial modesty as not usurping the legislative and executive roles.

His approach to his new job is no doubt still evolving, which could be a good thing. The respect for the elected branches that he invoked while testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee is hardly a perfect judicial philosophy, especially today, when we need the court to resist the president's dangerous view of his own power. Still, that principled approach would do more for the court and the nation than the predictable arch-conservatism the chief justice's opinions have shown so far.

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
0 Replies
 
Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:09 am
BernardR wrote:
Advocate's post shows the most supreme ignorance. RexRed answered him correctly. President Bush is a civil servant. It may be that advocate is confused. Many left wing liberals become confused when they read the evidence.

First of all, the only person who attacked another country in the last twenty years WITHOUT Congressional approval was Bill Clinton when he ordered missiles to bomb Baghdad in December 1998. Clinton received NO congressional approval.

Secondly, Mr. Advocate appears to be completely ignorant of the fact that President Bush went to the Senate and the House to GET AUTHORITY TO SEND TROOPS TO IRAQ.

Mr. Advocate's comment: How many people has Bush killed in Iraq is a comment made by someone who is completely ignorant of events.

According to Bob Woodward, in his book "Bush At War" P. 351---Bush killed no one in Iraq--Bush did not go to Iraq--American troops went to Iraq. They did the killing--Bush did not send the troops to Iraq UNTIL he got the approval of the Congress. The Congress could have turned him down. They did not. The Congress gave the President AUTHORITY to send troops to Iraq.

Here is the quote from Woodward--

"On October 10 and 11 the House and the Senate overwhelmingly voted to grant the president full authority to attack Iraq unilaterally, The vote in the House was 296 to 133, and in the Senate 77 to 232. THE CONGRESS GAVE BUSH THE FULL GO-AHEAD TO USE THE MILITARY AS HE DETERMINES TO BE NECESSARY AND APPROPRIATE TO DEFEND AGAINST THE THREAT OF IRAQ"


Does Mr. Advocate ever read in depth? It appears that he does not!!!



Mr MassaggoBernard lectures on ignorance but apparently hasn't read the recent reports that Bob Woodward gave up truth in favor of bu$h asskissing several yrs ago. Even if every word he wrote was the truth, the key words would be "Necessary and Appropriate to defend against the threat of Iraq".

It has been shown repeatedly that there was no threat from Iraq and never has been.

It would seem that MassagoBern is the one who does not read in depth as he can produce some of the biggest piles of manure known to mankind.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:18 am
BernardR wrote:
Okie- I am stunned. Seldom have I seen such a concentration of reasoned arguments using fact and evidence as I note in the post by Mr. Frank Apisa!! He must, of course, because of his agile debating ability be placed among the giants in the field.

I was ready to respond to his post but after I read it again, all I could really do is snicker in amazement!!!

Yes I am quite sure of that possum, your snicker is really amusing, please ceck your socks for matching.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:37 am
Bush, the mere civil servant, defrauded congress in approving the war resolution. Thus, he is clearly responsible for the invasion and our subsequent losses. There is little doubt that he is a war criminal.
0 Replies
 
 

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