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President Bush: Is He a Liar?

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 05:05 pm
BernardR wrote:
Which brings us to Joseph C. Wilson, IV

Any comments, sir?

Wilson was one of the three independent inquiries. Please address the other two, as well as Tenet's memo to Rice.

Thank you for playing.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 05:06 pm
Sir- Mr. Just an Observer- I know that it is possible to call President Bush a liar but you cannot call the Associated Press a liar--All they have going for them is their credibility -

Please note:

The Associated Press initially reported on March 1 that federal disaster officials warned Bush and his homeland security chief at the Aug. 28 session that the storm could breach levees. On March 3, The AP moved a clarification that the story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees rather than the levees breaking.



Thank You, sir!!!
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 05:08 pm
mysteryman wrote:
DrewDad,
One question...
What did the British inquiries come up with?

What Bush inquiries?

These were US inquiries, but not, I gather, at the request of the Bush administration. Why attempt to verification, when it might discredit a very nice sound bite?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 05:11 pm
DrewDad wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
DrewDad,
One question...
What did the British inquiries come up with?

What Bush inquiries?

These were US inquiries, but not, I gather, at the request of the Bush administration. Why attempt to verification, when it might discredit a very nice sound bite?


REad the question again...
I said BRITISH inquiries.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 05:11 pm
Drew Dad- I am eager to respond to the "other two" independent inquiries but I know of no other independent inquiries.

Do you have a link?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 05:22 pm
BernardR wrote:
Drew Dad- I am eager to respond to the "other two" independent inquiries but I know of no other independent inquiries.

Do you have a link?

Posted several times, and likely to be posted again.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 05:26 pm
I am sorry, Drew Dad, I am afraid that either I missed your link or did not see it.

A link-it is easy to spot.

You know--

http://etc.etc.

It usually comes up blue in a post. Did I miss it. Please forgive me if I did or refer me to your post in which you posted it. You know- a link I can click on to find the other two "independent inquiries"
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 05:27 pm
Wow!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:08 pm
One inquiry:
http://www.alternet.org/story/36183/
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:09 pm
One A inauiry:
inquiries about yellow cake from niger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake_Forgery
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:11 pm
Two inquiry:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1115/p01s04-uspo.html
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:12 pm
The Italian journalists are "hot on the trail" according to Mr. Imposter's last link.

When they hit paydirt, if they do, I hope it will be posted in the New York Times, the Washington Post and, my local paper, the Bethlehem Cradle.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:13 pm
Two A inquiry.

Which reminds me, isn't Bush's birthday coming up in July? It'd be a great idea for a demonstration--present him with an enormous yellowcake.
Posted by: Nancy Irving on June 28, 2004 at 2:03 AM | PERMALINK

The FT's description of their basis for saying there really were yellowcake discussion between Iraq and Niger smells to high heaven:

... European intelligence officials have for the first time confirmed that information provided by human intelligence sources during an operation mounted in Europe and Africa produced sufficient evidence for them to believe that Niger was the centre of a clandestine international trade in uranium.

In other words, anonymous people unknown to the reporters said something that anonymous "European intelligence officials" say they found believable -- even though there's no documentation to back it up, and no proof that any uranium actually moved an inch as a result.

Yeah, right. After all we've been through, anyone who buys this at face value is a fool.

Between this and the similarly proofless statement by Putin last week, not to mention the desperate pushing-back on al-Qaeda links, I get the feeling something really damaging must be about to break.
Posted by: Swopa on June 28, 2004 at 2:12 AM | PERMALINK
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:14 pm
Three inquiry.
http://www.belgraviadispatch.com/archives/001477.html
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:25 pm
Mr. Imposter-Thank you for providing One Inquiry; Two Inquiry and Three Inquiry. As you can see, it does not agree with my post below which we can call FOUR INQUIRY.


**************************************************************

Which brings us to Joseph C. Wilson, IV and what to my mind wins the palm for the most disgraceful instance of all.

The story begins with the notorious sixteen words inserted?-after, be it noted, much vetting by the CIA and the State Department?-into Bush's 2003 State of the Union address:

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.

This is the "lie" Wilson bragged of having "debunked" after being sent by the CIA to Niger in 2002 to check out the intelligence it had received to that effect. Wilson would later angrily deny that his wife had recommended him for this mission, and would do his best to spread the impression that choosing him had been the Vice President's idea. But Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times, through whom Wilson first planted this impression, was eventually forced to admit that "Cheney apparently didn't know that Wilson had been dispatched." (By the time Kristof grudgingly issued this retraction, Wilson himself, in characteristically shameless fashion, was denying that he had ever "said the Vice President sent me or ordered me sent.") And as for his wife's supposed non-role in his mission, here is what Valerie Plame Wilson wrote in a memo to her boss at the CIA:

My husband has good relations with the PM [the prime minister of Niger] and the former minister of mines . . . , both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.

More than a year after his return, with the help of Kristof, and also Walter Pincus of the Washington Post, and then through an op-ed piece in the Times under his own name, Wilson succeeded, probably beyond his wildest dreams, in setting off a political firestorm.

In response, the White House, no doubt hoping to prevent his allegation about the sixteen words from becoming a proxy for the charge that (in Wilson's latest iteration of it) "lies and disinformation [were] used to justify the invasion of Iraq," eventually acknowledged that the President's statement "did not rise to the level of inclusion in the State of the Union address." As might have been expected, however, this panicky response served to make things worse rather than better. And yet it was totally unnecessary?-for the maddeningly simple reason that every single one of the sixteen words at issue was true.

That is, British intelligence had assured the CIA that Saddam Hussein had tried to buy enriched uranium from the African country of Niger. Furthermore?-and notwithstanding the endlessly repeated assertion that this assurance has now been discredited?-Britain's independent Butler commission concluded that it was "well-founded." The relevant passage is worth quoting at length:

a. It is accepted by all parties that Iraqi officials visited Niger in 1999.

b. The British government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger's exports, the intelligence was credible.

c. The evidence was not conclusive that Iraq actually purchased, as opposed to having sought, uranium, and the British government did not claim this.




As if that were not enough to settle the matter, Wilson himself, far from challenging the British report when he was "debriefed" on his return from Niger (although challenging it is what he now never stops doing6), actually strengthened the CIA's belief in its accuracy. From the Senate Intelligence Committee report:

He [the CIA reports officer] said he judged that the most important fact in the report [by Wilson] was that Niger officials admitted that the Iraqi delegation had traveled there in 1999, and that the Niger prime minister believed the Iraqis were interested in purchasing uranium.

And again:

The report on [Wilson's] trip to Niger . . . did not change any analysts' assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original CIA reports on the uranium deal.

This passage goes on to note that the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research?-which (as we have already seen) did not believe that Saddam Hussein was trying to develop nuclear weapons?-found support in Wilson's report for its "assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq." But if so, this, as the Butler report quoted above points out, would not mean that Iraq had not tried to buy it?-which was the only claim made by British intelligence and then by Bush in the famous sixteen words.

The liar here, then, was not Bush but Wilson. And Wilson also lied when he told the Washington Post that he had unmasked as forgeries certain documents given to American intelligence (by whom it is not yet clear) that supposedly contained additional evidence of Saddam's efforts to buy uranium from Niger. The documents did indeed turn out to be forgeries; but, according to the Butler report,

[t]he forged documents were not available to the British government at the time its assessment was made, and so the fact of the forgery does not undermine [that assessment].7

More damning yet to Wilson, the Senate Intelligence Committee discovered that he had never laid eyes on the documents in question:

[Wilson] also told committee staff that he was the source of a Washington Post article . . . which said, "among the envoy's conclusions was that the documents may have been forged because ?'the dates were wrong and the names were wrong.'" Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the "dates were wrong and the names were wrong" when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports.

To top all this off, just as Cheney had nothing to do with the choice of Wilson for the mission to Niger, neither was it true that, as Wilson "confirmed" for a credulous New Republic reporter, "the CIA circulated [his] report to the Vice President's office," thereby supposedly proving that Cheney and his staff "knew the Niger story was a flatout lie." Yet?-the mind reels?-if Cheney had actually been briefed on Wilson's oral report to the CIA (which he was not), he would, like the CIA itself, have been more inclined to believe that Saddam had tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger.

So much for the author of the best-selling and much acclaimed book whose title alone?-The Politics of Truth: Inside the Lies that Led to War and Betrayed My Wife's CIA Identity?-has set a new record for chutzpah.

************************************************

Source:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Production/files.porhoretz1205advance.html


I am sure that this will all come out when the House of Representatives impeaches George W. Bush--that is, if they take the House in November.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:54 pm
BernardR wrote:
I am sorry, Drew Dad, I am afraid that either I missed your link or did not see it.

No doubt. Feel free to go back to my post. The link is, indeed, highlighted in blue.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 06:57 pm
mysteryman wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
DrewDad,
One question...
What did the British inquiries come up with?

What Bush inquiries?

These were US inquiries, but not, I gather, at the request of the Bush administration. Why attempt to verification, when it might discredit a very nice sound bite?


REad the question again...
I said BRITISH inquiries.

My bad.

The British inquiry into this finding held that there was sufficient evidence to support that Saddam was seeking nuclear material based on two items:

1. Niger's primary export is uranium.
2. An Iraq trade delegation was sent to Niger in 1999 to improve trade.

A veritable smoking gun.



You might also give me some understanding of why this is relevant. Or are you saying that our government should rely on Britain to supply our intelligence estimates?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 07:00 pm
DrewDad, on page 26, wrote:
And there was this.

The Wikipedia article on the Yellowcake forgery wrote:
During the 2003 State of the Union speech, U.S. President George W. Bush said, "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

...

The actual words President Bush spoke: "The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa" suggests that his source was British intelligence and not the forged documents.[2] However, the Administration has admitted that the claim was "a mistake."

...

The administration later conceded that evidence in support of the claim was inconclusive and stated "these 16 words should never have been included" in Bush's address to the nation, attributing the error to the CIA.[8]

...

...in February 2002, three different American officials had made efforts to verify the reports. The deputy commander of U.S. Armed Forces Europe, Marine Gen. Carlton Fulford, went to Niger and met with the country's president. He concluded that, given the controls on Niger's uranium supply, there was little chance any of it could have been diverted to Iraq. His report was sent to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers. The U.S. Ambassador to Niger, Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick, was also present at the meeting and sent similar conclusions to the State Department. At roughly the same time, the CIA sent Ambassador Joseph Wilson to investigate the claims himself... He returned home and told the CIA that the reports were "unequivocally wrong"....

...

In early October 2002, George Tenet called Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley, asking Hadley to remove reference to the Niger uranium from a speech Bush was to give in Cincinnati on Oct. 7. This was followed up by a memo asking Hadley to remove another, similar line. Another memo was sent to the White House expressing the CIA's view that the Niger claims were false; this memo was given to both Hadley and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

...


Still no reply from Brandon...

Three separate US inquiries determined that the British had it wrong, and Bush still chose to quote the British report.

I call that a deliberate attempt to mislead, which makes it a lie.

____________________________________________________________

See Bernard? I can repost, too.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 07:14 pm
DrewDad, The game they play is simple; produce three, and they'll want four; produce four, and they'll want five. No matter how many we produce, they'll continue to ask to produce more "evidence." They're a hopeless lot that no matter how much evidence is produce, they just ignore them to protect their own impossible position of defending this terrorist president that kills people by stretching the truth.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 May, 2006 07:25 pm
Zogby Poll: Americans Support Impeaching Bush for Wiretapping
New Zogby Poll Shows Majority of Americans Support Impeaching Bush for Wiretapping
By a margin of 52% to 43%, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he wiretapped American citizens without a judge's approval, according to a new poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org, a grassroots coalition that supports a Congressional investigation of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003.

The poll was conducted by Zogby International, the highly-regarded non-partisan polling company. The poll interviewed 1,216 U.S. adults from January 9-12.

The poll found that 52% agreed with the statement:

"If President Bush wiretapped American citizens without the approval of a judge, do you agree or disagree that Congress should consider holding him accountable through impeachment."

43% disagreed, and 6% said they didn't know or declined to answer. The poll has a +/- 2.9% margin of error.

"The American people are not buying Bush's outrageous claim that he has the power to wiretap American citizens without a warrant. Americans believe terrorism can be fought without turning our own government into Big Brother," said AfterDowningStreet.org co-founder Bob Fertik.

Recently White House spokesman Scott McClellan cited a Rasmussen poll that found 64% believe the NSA "should be allowed to intercept telephone conversations between terrorism suspects." Of course, that is exactly what Congress authorized when it created the FISA courts to issue special expedited secret warrants for terrorism suspects. But Bush defied the FISA law and authorized warrantless wiretaps of Americans, which has outraged Americans to the point that a majority believe Congress should consider Bush's impeachment.

"Bush admits he ordered illegal warantless wiretapping, but says it began in response to 9/11 and was limited to a small number of calls to or from Al Qaeda," Fertik said. "But recent reports suggest wiretapping affected a much larger number of Americans, and a report in Friday's Truthout says the wiretapping began before 9/11."

"The upcoming Senate hearings on White House wiretapping could be as dramatic as the Watergate hearings in 1973. A majority of Americans have already believe Congress should look into grounds for impeachment, yet we have only seen the tip of the iceberg in the Corporate Media. If Bush ordered warrantless wiretapping long before the terrorist attack on 9/11, then Americans will realize that George Bush came into office determined to shred the Constitution and take away our rights," Fertik said.

Impeachment Supported by Majorities of Many Groups
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=12044
0 Replies
 
 

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