THE TIGER

You Janus faced cantankerous parrot faced wazzock!

That act of simplicity hooked me up and your gloating like a Cheshire cat with a fresh salmon.

Resigned...

No problem, accepted.

Your well suited to that oink as well, the perfect couple, daft and craft don't come into it.

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Mathos - I missed you - where were you?

So what exactly do you think of me?

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How did that happen? You have special powers. Tell the truth Mathos - you do- don't you?

I think you're rich because you're like some computer genius who cashed in on the whole dot.com bubble thing. Because as Napoleon Dynamite would say, "You have skills." Come on - fess up.

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Are they supposed to never tell anyone about their vacations or experiences, etc?, because that might make people envious?

They tell you about them my dear in order to render you envious. They only go on the vacations in the first place to make people envious. It is called the "invidious comparison". And they harp on about the sunsets and the beautiful sights in order that it becomes apparent to you that they have been somewhere expensive in order to rack your envy up even more and if they happen to have noticed the Mona Lisa whilst passing it at 2 mph whilst munching on a hamburger and chattering they will pretend they are artistic to give it a twist.

I could tell about some of those exotic places in a way that would make it quite plain that only flat-out masochists would go anywhere near them.Not all prettied up. To elicit sympathy not envy.

I sometimes watch the envy signifiers in the pub. It's fascinating how their power is reduced as the night wears on.

A butcher once told me that they would buy cheap cuts to have money to spare for envy generation.The ones with lawns and stuff I mean.

I discovered that if you meet a strange woman at a function and she has an offspring at university she will have informed you of the fact within 2 minutes independently of the subject matter aforgoing.

It's ENVY CITY.

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are you supposed to act dumb so people who aren't as smart as you (namely someone like me) won't get jealous of how smart you are?

No. You shouldn't act.If you are smart you will turn your smartness in directions which people find acceptable and possibly enjoy by trial and error. If you make someone feel jealous you made an error. It will show.
You don't blame them. You win them back.

I gotta go. It's pub time.

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No, no, no. I don't agree at all. You will only be envious if you are prone to envy and you will only be prone to envy if you are insecure or have nothing in your life to approximate the experience of others. I'll tell you what I mean.

When I hear people talk about their vacations - I don't feel envious at all - I either think, "Hmmm... that's someplace I'd like to see" or "Good for them, but not my thing..." That's because I'm in a position to travel.

But when I hear people talk about things that they are able to do and I'm not, I think, "How nice for them that that's the case" , and I might feel envious except then I think - "Well, they own a gorgeous house and I don't, but instead of owning a gorgeous house, I get to travel." You have to try to come to terms with what you have and are able to do instead of living in envy. Envy will kill you. I don't engage in it. It's like a friend of mine said once to me when I was comparing myself to everyone else, she said, "Rebecca, you're comparing your insides to so and so's outsides." It's apples and oranges and it's not accurate or productive so don't do it. That's one of the best lessons I ever learned.

Spendius - people talk about their kids because they're important to them. Some do it too much, I agree, but if you were a parent, you might have a different view. Children (when you're a parent) are the be all and end all. It's not right - and it's creating a generation of insufferable and spoiled children - but it's just the way it is- a sad fact.

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Becks wrote-

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and I have paint all over my hands and smell like turpentine.

Hey- that's a bit far out. I have lettuce for supper for it's sweet dream potential.

I'm going to bed. (Turpentine-sheesh!)

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Lettuce? That's it? Don't you wake up in the middle of the night starving?

Are you still on that diet you were talking about a while back?

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Of course I am.

Why wouldn't I be. It's nutritious and it's cheap.

I wake up in the middle of the night to do No 1s. Usually twice.

Lettuce contains a minute amount of some substance (s) which tends to provide sweet dreams in the same way that many cheeses contain substances which tend to bring on the tranquil heebie-jeebies.

Has Mad Hos abandoned you? He used the word "resigned" rather pointedly I thought.

Talking about creative writing led me to Anthony Burgess's book You've Had Your Time and I found this-about James Joyce and Finnegan's Wake

"Joyce has a verbal invention exactly one hundred letters long to symbolise thunder--a thundred lettered word ,I called it.The structure appears ten times, though each time with a different lexical content. The counting printers discovered that there were one hundred and one letters in the tenth grumbling peal and wondered if there had been an initial printing error in 1939. But of course Joyce was up to his old symbolic tricks: the total number of thunder letters is one thousand and one, which relates Earwicker's dream to the Arabian Nights. "

Budding writers should remember that their books are first read by experts who have a good idea what they are doing.

I also spotted a bit of Burgess's own neat footwork.

".....fagging on, like Fra Lippo Lippi, at flesh." To symbolise drudgery.

and

"There is an all too palpable male signal of lack of desire which cannot be dissembled."

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Why wouldn't I be. It's nutritious and it's cheap.

Are you trying to lose weight, or just trying to eat healthily?

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I wake up in the middle of the night to do No 1s. Usually twice.

That's probably because of the high water content in the lettuce and all that fruit you eat. Unless, as Mathos has stated you're a male of a certain age. If you're a toddler or a tyke as he has stated - you might still have a small bladder and so have to empty it often. If you're a senior citizen as he has stated - you very well may have an enlarged prostate pressing on your bladder.

That must be tough - to never have an uninterrupted night's sleep.

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tranquil heebie-jeebies.

Tranquil heebie-jeebies - wouldn't that be an oxymoron?

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Has Mad Hos abandoned you? He used the word "resigned" rather pointedly I thought.

Yeah, I think "fired" would have been more accurate. Although he never really hired me. I think he was just messing around with that whole writing project thing. Because he takes every opportunity to get angry and put it off. That speaks to lack of motivation in my opinion.

I do miss his funny little stories though.

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Talking about creative writing led me to Anthony Burgess's book You've Had Your Time and I found this-about James Joyce and Finnegan's Wake

"Joyce has a verbal invention exactly one hundred letters long to symbolise thunder--a thundred lettered word ,I called it.The structure appears ten times, though each time with a different lexical content. The counting printers discovered that there were one hundred and one letters in the tenth grumbling peal and wondered if there had been an initial printing error in 1939. But of course Joyce was up to his old symbolic tricks: the total number of thunder letters is one thousand and one, which relates Earwicker's dream to the Arabian Nights. "

Joyce is fascinating, but extremely hard reading and slow going (for me at least). I read The Dubliners about twenty years ago on the advice of a friend who has since become a Joyce scholar. He's coming over here to do a symposium at the university in Bath in the summer of 2007. I've never taken one of his classes or sat in one and even audited, but his theories on some of Joyce's themes and methods are intriguing and I think I might sit in on one of his lectures when he comes. I've told him I'm going to try to read Finnegan's Wake and maybe reread Dubliners - although the only way I got through it the first time was having John there to translate and explain.

He's a Joyce fanatic - named his two sons James and Stephen.

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Budding writers should remember that their books are first read by experts who have a good idea what they are doing.

I also spotted a bit of Burgess's own neat footwork.

".....fagging on, like Fra Lippo Lippi, at flesh." To symbolise drudgery.

and

"There is an all too palpable male signal of lack of desire which cannot be dissembled."

Umm Spendius - if you're feeling a lack of desire - or as if you're involved in some kind of drudgery - I guess I'd recommend new and more exciting company. I know that always works for me.

I'm sure you can arrange that.

Or it may just be iron-poor blood. How are you meeting your daily protein, iron, and calcium requirements on this fruit and lettuce diet?

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"There is an all too palpable male signal of lack of desire which cannot be dissembled."

Umm Spendius - if you're feeling a lack of desire - or as if you're involved in some kind of drudgery - I guess I'd recommend new and more exciting company. I know that always works for me.

There you go. Jumping to unwarranted conclusions. Assuming you knew what was in my mind and 180 degrees off target.

I offered the eg as a tasty bit of English understatement with added spice.

It suggests for example that the writer is such a magical spellbinder with words that he can easily dissemble on any other matter. It suggests he might dissemble if he could and thus predicted Viagra.

You can tell from it that you are reading a somewhat jaded author who has been through a number of grinders you haven't and is learning to accept the inevitable and thus help you to.

There's more but I'm stuck for time.

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Help you see the funny in the tragic.

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spendius wrote:

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"There is an all too palpable male signal of lack of desire which cannot be dissembled."

I offered the eg as a tasty bit of English understatement with added spice.

It suggests for example that the writer is such a magical spellbinder with words that he can easily dissemble on any other matter. It suggests he might dissemble if he could and thus predicted Viagra.

Sweetheart, I don't know if you're old enough to know this or not - but Viagra doesn't address the problem of lack of desire, unless that lack of desire is psychologically tied to the lack of ability to (ahem) perform. If a male had a simple lack of desire - he wouldn't be inspired to go to the trouble of seeing a doctor, getting a prescription and taking Viagra. It's in fact a very clear indicator of desire that he would even seek a prescription for Viagra. Just trying to be precise.

But who's the spellbinding writer here who's dissembling? I'm confused. What and who are we talking about?

I don't want anyone assuming what is or isn't inevitable for me. There's the small matter of my own free will and ability to act and choose.

Spendius - I freely admit that I never know what is in your mind. As a matter of fact you're a master dissembler yourself. I think you'd have made a good juggler or master of the sleight of hand.

As for helping me see the funny in the tragic - I don't need any help with that. There's a lot that's funny here - but certainly nothing tragic. You said so yourself last night. Tragedy is what's happening in Lebanon or Africa. What happens here is mostly farce. And I think we'll all make it out alive - don't you?

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I would never use Viagra under any circumstances that could be described on a public thread.

I would assume that any lack of desire was caused by forces beyond my control and that it was good for me and thus I should welcome it. I can't imagine how a Darwinian scientific materialist could possibly think otherwise.

It would be tantamount to admitting a weakness in need of treatment by the chemical industry.

But you have not defined what you mean by "desire" or "Desire". You seem to lean towards thinking of Desire as the male having his shooteroonerie satisfactorily. One might not need a "prescription", horrid word, for other sorts of desires.

If you anticipate making it out alive you are a religious person.

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Spendius - I deleted my last two posts because they were kind of mean spirited (even though I was trying to joke around).

I didn't really want to say those things to you. Sometimes my mouth just gets away from me. Sorry.

You take care.

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The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it

-- Omar Khayyam

I had read them. I can't see why you have deleted them.

What you have managed to do is give the impression that you said things to me that you regret having said, thus implying that I somehow deserved them, and now you haven't said those things anymore so you have given the impression without further risk.

Very crafty.

You can say anything you like to me.

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What you have managed to do is give the impression that you said things to me that you regret having said, thus implying that I somehow deserved them, and now you haven't said those things anymore so you have given the impression without further risk.

Spendius - you always twist things so - or at the very least your mind and my mind work so differently. I do regret writing the things I wrote. Whether you deserved them or not - (which honestly I certainly felt that you did at the time I wrote them, or I wouldn't have written them in the first place), the fact remains that I regretted having written them. I guess I was assauging my own guilt by deleting them, and I tried to be respectful of your feelings by apologizing.

That's this crazy custom I grew up with. Because I know I'm not perfect, and I won't always say or do the right thing, I believe it's at least somewhat necessary to say, "I'm sorry" when I do something that makes me feel ashamed of myself.

I also felt that the study I posted might have seemed disrespectful or ridiculing of women who are heavy - which I would never be - my own mother has battled obesity her entire life and I know how she suffers over fat jokes. It might have seemed like I was making one - and I wasn't. I sincerely found that study interesting - but didn't understand or agree with the science and/or conclusions behind it and wanted to see if you had a different take.

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Very crafty.

I'm not crafty at all. I'm an open book. I wrote something and I didn't like the way it made me feel about myself for having written it. The damage might already have done, but I wanted to address the fact that I didn't feel good about writing it.

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You can say anything you like to me

.
Not by my code of behavior. And sometimes I'm afraid to. I often find our communication confusing and difficult - confusing because my motives are always called into question and found to be more negative than I know that they are- and difficult because I never really know what you mean. It's a shame, because I think you're interesting to talk to - but sometimes it feels negative to me, whether it does to you or not.

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Becks wrote-

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I guess I was assauging my own guilt by deleting them, and I tried to be respectful of your feelings by apologizing.

You see even that is self-serving. Wouldn't it be better if you didn't say things which subsequently cause you to have guilt feelings. The thought you gave expression to must have actually existed. You presumed my reaction to it or that of others which is possibly a projection of how you would have reacted to it had someone expressed it to you.

Dylan says somehere-

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Had you followed that you wouldn't be in this tangle.

There's plenty of ridiculing of fat people going on all over the place. (See Fat Slags in VIZ.)

Ridicule does have a purpose. It's intention is to correct a behaviour pattern, excessive eating, which the group sees, and correctly, as weakening it by inhibiting economic function.

But I didn't see that post so I can't comment on it.

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Spendius - Dylan is a bright and talented guy, but I hardly think we can credit him as the creative being who came up with the golden rule.

This is all I'll say on this subject. I'm generally happy with who and what I am. I don't embarrass myself. I know others think I should be embarrassed, or think I'm this or think I'm that - but I honestly am not interested in fitting in with a model of conformity displayed by adults who would use ridicule as a method of behavior modification.

I see it all day, everyday with the kids I work with. It's been quite an education for me learning about where and how exactly these kids learn to be as cruel to each other as they are. My parents never modeled that type of behavior for me - in fact quite the opposite. And you know that's been part of my problem. I honestly find it hard to believe that people are as cruel and nasty as they really are. I'm always making excuses, rationalizing, attributing it to my own misunderstanding, or searching for some silver lining. And sometimes none of those exist - sometimes people just suck.

But I'm not letting that change who I am or how I behave. If you have a problem with me - don't interact with me.

And you did say you read both posts - but it's not important.
Have a lovely night.

*I took your advice and did quite a lot of writing today. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.

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I know I said that was it - but you know me... Laughing

Spendius - I meant everything I said in the post above, but it sounded harsher than I meant it to.

I accept that people are free to act and interact as they choose, and I really do make quite an effort to act accordingly and cooperatively as I can.

Part of the reason I don't change is that I don't know how I could change that would make a shred of difference. If someone would say to me, "Aidan, this is what you need to do" and it was at all sensible and reasonable, I would try to do it.
I don't understand or respond to innuendo or passive aggressive intimidation or harrassment. Half the time, I'm not even aware it's happening, because I haven't had a lot of experience being on the receiving end and having to interpret those types of messages. Maybe I need a translator.

It's all such a lot of bother over very little. Don't worry about me Spendius. I'll be fine. So will you. Hopefully everyone on this forum will live healthy and happily ever after. That is my sincere wish. (I'm dead serious- I'd never wish any harm to anyone).

Don't feel obligated to answer or speak with me. Just do your own thing - and I'll do mine, if that's what you want to do. I'm really very fine with that. You don't owe me anything. Nobody does.

*And I'll always wish you the very best in your life....Good night for real this time.

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Nellie No Friends

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