THE TIGER

Becks wrote-



You could stick a hatpin through his hand when he was relaxing. One of those thick ones.

You can't be naughty at five. You can only be doing something shithead doesn't like and if he doesn't like how five year old girls behave he shouldn't have fetched one to the carnival.

At the age you are now it might be different but you'll have to ask Mathos about that. They whisper that he is my alter-ego. But at five you can't deserve anything except love and understanding.

You can wait till he's in a wheelchair.

I'm not sure I would have resorted to spanking a five year old for saying something she didn't know it was wrong to say - but I will say it made an impression on me. And he obviously must have spoken to me about it, because I became and have remained sensitive to those issues. So whether he went about it in the right way or not - he achieved the desired effect.

So a five year old deserves kindness and understanding? I agree. But at what age do people stop deserving kindness and understanding? I'm just curious to know your thoughts on that.

All the time.

Understanding takes account of where they are in life and the problems they have to deal with. I'm not saying it deals with them. But it tries its best and you can't even try at all if you have no understanding.

Is it a desired effect that you are sensitive to such issues. You can't be a racist with understanding. You can't help others being racist.

No, you can't, but you can try to provide some kind of understanding or education around the issue - we had to do that in the last school I worked at. Because it was in the south, and there were racial tensions, etc. the school system implemented all these reading groups for the teachers and administrators and assigned readings. But for the people who weren't open to it - having to participate and read things they weren't interested in and didn't care about and didn't see as a problem, just made them less open, more defensive and more determined and set in their views.

Because, the bottom line is, I think, that until you really know, care about, and/or, as you said, understand a person, in any situation, but particularly someone who is dealing with a whole different set of issues, such as racial differences can bring, it's all theoretical and abstract.

Maybe that's why when my father hurt me (by spanking me) and explained how what I had said had hurt Frances just as much - it was concrete enough for my five year old brain get it.

No it is wrong, you do not hit children, especially in that manner.

He was perhaps unaware that it was wrong, I don't know, but wrong it was Aidan, you know that.

It's not wrong Mathos. Might is right. Have you forgotten.

You just wait until the the bastard is as helpless as you were at five and kick seven bells of **** out of him as soon as you get the chance. My Dad knew that. That's why he didn't take any chances.

[quote="Mathos"]]I am sorry you consider my writing above to be racist in your opinion, a coloured associate of mine considered it mere trivia, not racist at all in his opinion. He has mentioned in the past though how glad he is that he was born in the UK and not in America. The post has been aired for some considerable hours now, there are no complaints from others and it has received about 100 hits since I entered the same.[/quote]

Mathos
I think you're wrong.
I wouldn't call a black person 'coloured'
Partly because blacks have let us know years ago how much they hate it.
It's not considered racist here (UK)- but it is considered ignorant.

You said: I know several coloured people who are amazed at some of the legislation which is arrived at supposedly for their benefit, when in fact it is nought but a thorn in their side.
If it's true you have black friends who tell you this, and they're happy for you to refer to them as 'coloured' - they're either keeping their honest personal feelings hidden from you - or they're in need of liberation - or they're idiots.

When you say 'we' refer to the Irish as Micks, the scotts as Jocks ect...
I hope by 'we' you don't mean we English.
It might still be traditional to do so in say, the army - but these terms are not bantered around in schools, universities, courtrooms, or even the pub. Black people are not referred to as 'coloured' in the media in Britain, nor do we have 'coloured' soldiers in our forces.

Would you call Nelson Mandela 'coloured'?


How about Kofi Annan?

Or England's Sol Campbell?


Or Benjamin Zephania? (UK poet)


I have an Irish friend who happens to be black. If you called him a 'coloured Mick' he'd think you were an arse-hole and he'd be right


I'm only saying this because you invited me to do so - your statement quoted is a challenge isn't it?

I didn't want to post here (and who could blame me) - but then again I don't want a2k users believing all Brits are hopelessly behind the times, or just out to cause trouble - after all you've just helped get the British users thread in the Europe forum locked down, haven't you?
You and S are out of control - and I don't like to see vulnerable people getting their brains fuc ked with.
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aidan, I know I have no right to give anyone on this forum advice -
I'm a drunk and a coward and a sorry piece of shite but you helped me back along and so I'm going to say this with the best intentions -

This isn't creativity

This is nuts

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It's now gone 5.30am and I'm going to get some kip. It's taken me all night to write this fuc king thing - hope you at least get my sincerity

Endy - I don't know that you're any of the things you said you are. And honestly - whatever you are is your own business- that's my philosophy anyway.

But I'm happy you posted what you did. Because I think you're more typical of the British mindset on the use of the word "colored". I didn't want all the Americans who haven't been here to think that Mathos' view is indicative of the norm. Because truthfully, my husband did hear himself referred to as "colored" quite alot when he first started working here, but he very gently and calmly said, "I'm not comfortable being called that," and explained why and most people immediately apologized and adopted (at least around him) different terminology.

This tiger thread may not be creativity - but it's my feeble attempt at not letting negativity have the last word. So many times in my life, I've watched myself and others just give up- on a person- on a cause-on whatever. And I've just decided - this time I'm not giving up-no matter what - and yes-it is definitely ******* with my head- but I'm not giving up.

I have a right to be here and be who or whatever it is I am. And so does anyone else who has something to say - no matter how unpopular it may be. And I'm sick to death of bullies with their own agenda setting the standard and enforcing it through harrassment and intimidation. Those of us who just give up are allowing them to change our world into what they think it should be- and I don't want to live in that world- and I don't want to give that world to my kids and everyone else's kids knowing I just stood by and watched it evolve into what it is, while I sat and whined about it, after I made myself more comfortable by withdrawing.

And I do believe that Spendius and Mathos and anyone else has the right to be here and be who or whatever they are - as long as they keep it above board and honest. I don't think what you say should be the criteria so much as how you choose to say it. If someone has the courage to say something right out and be accountable for it - more power to them. It's the sneaky behind the scenes stuff that is eroding (as a friend of mine put it) and cowardly.

Get some sleep Endy :wink: (whether you're sincere or not is not as important as what you posted and how you posted it). Thank you.

Endy, thanks for the benefits of your response, there are some and you have been candid, as you always are.


Differences in words irrespective of their identical meanings can I know cause offence, and opinion variations. We are all subject to examination at times. This is why politicians especially create sentences of promise, showing no commitment.

The bone of contention is the use of the word 'coloured' nothing more. I have never been advised by a living soul of any class creed or colour, that the word could be in the least deemed to be insensitive. To have it considered racist is beyond me and several others I have since mentioned it to, of both white and brown skin. Perhaps the north west of England is cocooned, I am surprised.




With regards to the terminology between the working class of Britain, building sites and hauliers being the best examples, you will regularly hear reference of Mick, Paddy, Jock, Taff, Geordie, Scouse, Cockney, Brummie and probably several more which I am not searching my mind for.


These 'nicknames' are also quite commonly used amongst members of the police force. I also beg to differ with you regarding the same in pubs, only a few weeks ago in Cheshire, I heard an Irish man being addressed by three obvious friends and a bar waitress, as Paddy.


Actually we do not really use the word black or coloured that often in our neck of the woods. We may make use of the word Asian, I think the events of the terrorist problems over the last five years have been instrumental in this. As for American terminology, it is their country, let them use as they see fit and agree.


Personally you have every right to give advice or tender a bollocking if you see fit, I believe everybody has the right to freedom of speech especially. Yes my statement was indeed, not so much a challenge, but I was and still am concerned to think that the use of the aforementioned word is wrong in any shape or form.

I don't see you as a coward either Endy, not at all, plus being drunk and speaking your mind is no problem to me. Neither do I see you as a sorry piece of shite. I can see your accusation that it is nuts have sound meaning from the outside looking in. No I would applaud you Endy, and having read much of your literary posts, can only speak of your talents with admiration, nothing more.


You have pointed out as you see fit to me, I can take that.

Thanks for understanding where i was coming from.

Maybe I went a bit OTT.... but if there are any blacks out there who think the term 'coloured' (which we all are, aren't we?) does not sound good to their ears - (as aidan's husband did) please let Mathos know.
He says he doesn't wish to offend and I believe him.

Speaking of which, er....
It's been pointed out to me that I should have included a black woman in my post - and that they've not been represented, so to speak.

At risk of pushing my luck - I'd just like to rectify that


Tracy Chapman - in my opinion a sadly underrated artist - and an excelent football (soccer) player!



I'll piss off now
Thanks for having me here

Peace,
Endy

Tracy Chapman is fantastic.



Right Aidan, your bang out of order with your self gratifying pompous deviations of the truth. Following brief discussions with a few coloured friends and associates of mine, I asked a group of Asian friends to read the thread and comment on the use of the word coloured. About 25 minutes ago I was contacted by phone by them (four in all Tee, Mohammed, Shoaib and Yusef)

That woman is talking a load of crap was their response. All of them stated they would HATE to be referred to as black, coloured was fine. They even talk to their own children about coloured related problems in life.


These lads were all born and raised in this country, they are good living people with families, they despise people such as yourself jumping on the bandwagon to cause racist problems when there is no need for it, and you did that lady! They asked why you were living in the UK, suggested you may have been tarred and feathered in your own neck of the woods and driven out of town for being a trouble maker. After all, who needs a mis-appropriator of truth living in their back yard?

If your raising kids in this vein, your going to do a great deal of damage to them, if you have not done so already.


There are not so many on the threads giving you the time of day Aidan, and it does not take a great deal of thought to understand why.


As far as I am concerned, people of your calibre are not worth the time of day.

Goodbye.

Mathos must have been stung on the rectum by a furious bee.

Speaking of talented black women, my favorite writer, maybe of all time, but most certainly of those still living, is Toni Morrison. She uses language so lyrically. It's almost like the sentences of her novels start as lines of poetry which she then strings together to tell a story. I've tried doing that myself - just being particularly aware of the rhythm of words and the sounds and alliteration - or writing a kind of story poem and then stringing it together into longer sentences without line breaks- and it's amazing how it strengthens the quality of writing. I tried to find some of her poems on line to compare to some of her prose - but wasn't able to-she's much better known as a novelist than as a poet.

I heard her read her work once. She was mesmerizing. She just has this mellow, melodic voice and hearing those wonderful words spoken in that beautiful voice was spell-binding. She's someone I just fell in love with as a fellow human being whom I was happy to be on this earth with.

My favorite book by her is Beloved. I really think it's one of the masterpieces of American fiction.

You've been hypnotised Becks.

When I count to three and snap my fingers you will return to your seat in the audience as if nothing had happened.

One, two three.!"£$%^&*()_+