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Immigration and Racism in Britain and USA

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 03:03 pm

[My] summary:

Quote:
Britain should hold a judicial inquiry into why some Muslims in the country are turning to extremism, the UK's most senior Muslim officer is to say today in a speech to the National Black Police Association. Survivors of the July 7 attacks last year have long demanded a public inquiry but the government has said it would be a distraction for the security services.

Tarique Ghaffur, Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Force, will also warn that new anti-terrorism laws are alienating Muslims and criminalising ethnic minorities, that they indirectly discriminated against Muslims, and that stop and search powers were being used unfairly against people of Asian appearance. He said it could mean such communities would "retreat inside themselves" at a time when the security services needed their trust and help.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 03:12 pm
Quote:
Survey reveals shades of Islam in Britain

Source

The documentary was shown at 8 PM tonight on Channel 4.
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oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 03:41 pm
Walter, the prog on CH4 you refer too was very good. It put things into perspective. I now understand the Muslim ideals a little better. They are also normal human beings. It's time the bigots/racists realised that if they spoke to their enemy they would see that the differences aren't that great.

Now it's worth noting that the England cricket team currently playing a 4 game series against Pakistan (that country next to Afganistan) includes 2 players from the Indian Sub-Continent. Integration comes in unexpected form
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SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Aug, 2006 04:08 pm
MUSLIM INTEGRATION HAS COME TO A HALT
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 07:43 am
I watched the programme. It wasnt encouraging. It seems the younger more educated muslims are the most radical/conservative in their rejection of Britain and western values. Most Muslims believe the Americans and Israelis destroyed the WTC, and a third want Britain to be come a muslim country under sharia law.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 08:08 am
They'll have to get past suburban England Steve.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 08:30 am
spendius wrote:
They'll have to get past suburban England Steve.
Ah yes those good dependable folk of suburbia. Sensible, hard working, aspirational in a realistic sort of way. The moderate middle. The majority for whom Blair made his pitch...whatever happened to them?

Actually Spendy I dont care if Britain does become an Islamic republic. So long as they put a stop to Jehovah's witnesses.
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SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 08:42 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
spendius wrote:
They'll have to get past suburban England Steve.
Ah yes those good dependable folk of suburbia. Sensible, hard working, aspirational in a realistic sort of way. The moderate middle. The majority for whom Blair made his pitch...whatever happened to them?

Actually Spendy I dont care if Britain does become an Islamic republic. So long as they put a stop to Jehovah's witnesses.


Is it the suburbanites that have decided the Brits of Asian and African extraction have just been declared inferior and unable to compete?

RACIAL QUOTAS COMING TO BRITAIN

This was actually tried here, but struck down by our Supreme Court. Is anyone in Parliament there speaking out against the 'quota' idea?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 10:07 am

[My] summary:

Quote:
Britain should hold a judicial inquiry into why some Muslims in the country are turning to extremism, the UK's most senior Muslim officer is to say today in a speech to the National Black Police Association. Survivors of the July 7 attacks last year have long demanded a public inquiry but the government has said it would be a distraction for the security services.

Tarique Ghaffur, Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Force, will also warn that new anti-terrorism laws are alienating Muslims and criminalising ethnic minorities, that they indirectly discriminated against Muslims, and that stop and search powers were being used unfairly against people of Asian appearance. He said it could mean such communities would "retreat inside themselves" at a time when the security services needed their trust and help.


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Quote:

[My] summary:

Quote:
The recruitment, retention and progression of ethnic minority staff in Britain's police forces is "woeful, piecemeal and pitiful", warns the president of the National Black Police Association.

Keith Jarrett is calling for a change in the law that will allow forces to adopt an affirmative action policy. "The best information about a community will come from the community itself, but this relationship can only happen if there is dialogue and a level of trust between the two parties. But where do you start if there is under-representation?

"Approximately 3.7% of the police force is black and it will take another 30 years for the force to be fully representative. If the Met Police wants to meet its own targets it will have to, until 2009, ensure that 90% of the officers recruited are black."

Mr Jarrett acknowledged that allegations of corruption and racism within the force compounded the problem of recruiting black people as officers: "The police force is still full of racist people. The only thing we have managed to do is make it covert."


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Quote:

[My] summary:

Quote:
The government is considering denying multimillion pound contracts to companies that fail to employ enough black and Asian workers.

The Department of Work and Pensions confirmed that three pilot schemes have been approved which will see companies questioned on their workforce diversity before the government decides on the winning bid. Firms could be asked to provide figure showing the numbers of black and Asian employees on their payroll, which would be compared with the proportion of people living in their surrounding area.

"It is something that is being looked at," the spokesman said. "We have got as far as identifying three pilot schemes but it is still at an early stage."

Currently, the employment rate of people from black and minority ethnic communities in England stands at 59.7%, compared to a national employment rate of 74.6%.


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[My] summary:

Quote:
Britain's biggest theme park has called off the first "National Muslim Fun Day" because of lack of interest. Alton Towers was to open on September 17 for Muslims - with halal food, a strict dress code and prayer areas. Music, gambling and alcohol were to be banned for the day and theme park rides segregated by sex. The event's organizers had hoped to fill a niche for Muslims who are uncomfortable with mainstream entertainment.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 10:09 am
Sierra-

The leaders of the three main parties here and their senior colleagues and advisers are almost all suburbanites.

Whatever consensus is reached will be essentially suburban thinking and any court, supreme or not, which tries to block that consensus can be, if necessary, ie they don't know on which side their bread is buttered, abolished. I gather the US doesn't partake in such a luxury. Nor a BOUNDERIES COMMISSION aka Bounder's. I presume the US has a crude form of gerrymandering with its planning policies.

Suburbia is also media territory. I would guess that at least 95% of Battle of Britain pilots were suburbanites.

To answer Steve's-

Quote:
The moderate middle. The majority for whom Blair made his pitch...whatever happened to them?


Contentment Steve. Test matches, lawns, allotments, car preening, gossipping- you know. It's only the discontented who agitate.

Suburbia must not be sufficiently concerned about the issues. If it does become concerned you will hear about it.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 10:13 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
Most Muslims believe the Americans and Israelis destroyed the WTC

Actually, bewilderingly enough, such delusions are not anymore particular to Muslims... Shocked

Over a third of Americans now believe that "People in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted to United States to go to war in the Middle East", according to a Scripps Howard News Service / Ohio University poll.

A sixth even believes that "The collapse if the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two buildings", and almost one in eight believes that "The Pentagon was not struck by an
airliner captured by terrorists but, instead was hit by a cruise missile fired by the U.S. military"

...speechless... <blinks>

EDIT: Forgot the LINK
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 10:16 am

Ack - apologies for the double post of that item. Forgot.
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SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 10:44 am
spendius wrote:
Sierra-

The leaders of the three main parties here and their senior colleagues and advisers are almost all suburbanites.


To be honest, that part of my question was largely rhetorical.

spendius wrote:
Whatever consensus is reached will be essentially suburban thinking and any court, supreme or not, which tries to block that consensus can be, if necessary, ie they don't know on which side their bread is buttered, abolished. I gather the US doesn't partake in such a luxury. Nor a BOUNDERIES COMMISSION aka Bounder's. I presume the US has a crude form of gerrymandering with its planning policies.


My concern is whether there will be anyone in your government strong enough to get this "Quotas for Ethnics' law/measure overturned. Once Blair leaves, I honestly fear for your country.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 10:57 am
People believe in conspiracies because it provides them with an opportunity to look clever and clued into some secret channel or insight as they have discovered that they are dumb know-nothings in those areas everyone is familiar with.

It provides the chattering classes with something to endlessly chatter about. The hints are provided by media to facilitate one-upmanship and one-upwomanship exhibitions at dinner parties and are competitive within the class based consumer profiles which the range of outlets cater for.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 11:08 am
Sierra-

There is no need for you to be alarmed at the state of Great Britain after Mr Blair has departed from office which is what at least half the population wants.

Commeth the hour commeth the man. I hope it's a man anyway.

Such transitions are so smooth that suburbanites only notice the change of name and cartoon caricatures. Those members of ethnic groups who submit themselves to the disciplines of suburbia find quite a ready acceptance. Take Tiger Woods as an example.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 11:15 am
I find it odd that several of the journalists in the articles linked here so uncritically assumed that the indications of the alienation of moslem youth in Britain (preference for Sharia law; greater Islamist identity than their parents; belief that 9/11 was staged; etc.) are a direct consequence of the foreign policy of the country and in particular the support for the so-called 'War on Terrorism'. While that undoubtedly is a contributing factor, it is remarkable that there is no inquiry as to what in the education and culture of these people might also contribute to these phenomina.

It is worth considering for a moment the political, economic, cultural, and intellectual achievements of British and European civilization since the dawn of the Modern Age in the early 16th century, and comparing it with the relatively static situatuion in the Moslem world during the same period. The difference is very great, and it is folly to assume it has no effect on Moslem immigrants.

This is also a reminder that the best assimilation of Moslem immigrants to Britain involves more of welcoming them to British culture than it does modifying British culture to accomodate them. Related to this is the fact that the parents of these aleinated Moslem youths came to Britain in search of a modern civilization and to escape the ill effects of the one they left. This is no time for the British public to succomb to the professional hand-wringers and breast-beaters of the chattering class and the quota-mongering politicians who follow in their wake. There are some very clear historical examples of the right and wrong approaches to this problem. They should be considered carefully.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 11:42 am
spendius wrote:


Quote:
The moderate middle. The majority for whom Blair made his pitch...whatever happened to them?


Contentment Steve. Test matches, lawns, allotments, car preening, gossipping- you know. It's only the discontented who agitate.

Suburbia must not be sufficiently concerned about the issues. If it does become concerned you will hear about it.
you got a good point there Spendy. Upset suburbanites big time and your government is toast. Regarding cricket...not bad eh?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 11:48 am
spendius wrote:
People believe in conspiracies because it provides them with an opportunity to look clever and clued into some secret channel or insight as they have discovered that they are dumb know-nothings in those areas everyone is familiar with.

It provides the chattering classes with something to endlessly chatter about. The hints are provided by media to facilitate one-upmanship and one-upwomanship exhibitions at dinner parties and are competitive within the class based consumer profiles which the range of outlets cater for.
Which reminds me that in the ch4 programme referred to, many Muslims believe Diana Princess of Wales was murdered because of her relationship with Dodi Fayed.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 12:03 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
... the best assimilation of Moslem immigrants to Britain involves more of welcoming them to British culture than it does modifying British culture to accomodate them.
This is surely true of most immigrants to a new culture. They must make most effort to adapt, and in the process the wider society absorbs something of the minority culture. That way we all benefit. But it does not seem to happen with Islam. They tend to keep themselves apart, presumably in the knowledge that they and they alone are in possession of the final perfect unchanged and unchangeable word of God courtesy of Mohammed.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 12:06 pm
Steve wrote-

Quote:
Which reminds me that in the ch4 programme referred to, many Muslims believe Diana Princess of Wales was murdered because of her relationship with Dodi Fayed.


Well they would wouldn't they?

It is a rather naive theory in my view. It makes the unlikely assumption that a scorned woman has only one method of twisting the red hot poker in the raw wound.

Their assumption serves their purpose as is to be expected.

And they have had to assume that the Princess was murdered to get to that.
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