Immigration and Racism in Britain and USA

Both - from racist graffiti and abusive phonecalls to physical attacks. Its from this report of the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC): National Analytical Study on Racist Violence and Crime - the UK

Thank You, Miller, for your post on the Dutch and the Cowardly and Traitorous De Geer, who,as your source says,"didn't believe the Allies would win" and opted for a separate peace with the Nazis. Typical gutlessness from the Netherlands.

The comment made about the Per Capita GPA of the Netherlands, reveals that the gap between the Netherlands and the USA is $11,300 per person.

After reading some of the "Historian" Nimh's comments, I am convinced that anyone in the Netherlands who criticizes the USA and its government does it from ENVY.

Do they have indoor plumbing in the Netherland Countryside??????

Mr. Walter Hinteler's interesting story about his "Greek" Dentist and "Greek" Doctor should not be surprising to anyone familiar with the chaotic German medical scene.

http://www.usatoday.com/news.health.2006-06-23-ge


quote
Young German doctors leaving the country for more money abroad
Posted 6/23/2006 12:37 PM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Subscribe to stories like this



DUESSELDORF, Germany (AP) ?- Anesthesiologist Christian Favoccia had no trouble deciding to ditch his job at the university hospital in Duesseldorf for a new one at a clinic in Amsterdam.
By leaving home, the 36-year-old specialist will make almost three times as much money, work shorter hours and have better chances at promotion.

"At this point I honestly can't tell you if I will ever come back to Germany," Favoccia said. "I am skeptical that they'll be able to offer me the same kind of incentives any time soon."

Germany's well-trained but frustrated young doctors are leaving the country for higher pay in ever greater numbers, leaving some hospitals struggling to fill positions.

More than 12,500 German doctors are working abroad already, and 2,300 left the country in 2005 alone, according to the doctors' association, the Marburger Bund. The Netherlands, Britain, United States, Australia, Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries are among the top destinations.

"There are more than 5,000 jobs available at hospitals due to the number of people who have left," Michael Helmkamp, a spokesman for the Marburger Bund, said Tuesday. "Clinics all over Germany are facing shortages and many hospitals cannot provide their former standard of health care anymore."

Favoccia, who got his medical degree from the University of Bochum before moving on to the University Hospital Duesseldorf 5 1/2 years ago, is already taking Dutch classes together with a colleague who is also planning to move to Amsterdam. He said he did not mind starting a new life in the Netherlands even though he would miss his friends at home.

"My father came to Germany as an immigrant from Italy in the 1960s and built up a new life here, I guess I can do the same in Holland," said Favoccia, who is single.

A spokeswoman for the federal Health Ministry said Thursday that only some regions of Germany are struggling with a shortage of doctors while cities like Berlin are in fact facing a surplus.

"These general assumptions by the Marburger Bund are not always true," said spokeswoman Ina Klaus. "And besides that the government is contributing millions of euros for clinics to improve the working conditions of doctors."

At the University Hospital in Duesseldorf, dozens of doctors have left for better jobs abroad, said Favoccia. The situation is particularly dramatic at the anesthesia department where 17 out of 80 doctors have quit their jobs within the last year.

Low salaries are one of the main reasons. Favoccia is making $2,900 a month after taxes in Duesseldorf, but at the University Hospital in Amsterdam he will earn $8,150 after deductions ?- and work fewer hours.

Young clinic doctors never made a lot of money in Germany but knew that later in their career their tough beginnings at the hospital would pay off, said Favoccia. That was before changes to the government health insurance program aimed at limiting health costs ?- and restricting what doctors can charge.

There are very few private clinics in Germany, so most young doctors start their careers at university hospitals, state-run or municipal clinics.

"Today, it is not worth it anymore to struggle for years because after all the changes in the German health system you will never become rich, not even as a senior doctor or if you own a private practice," he said.

But it is not just about the money. Many express frustration with working conditions and career prospects.

"The hospital is not providing me with good training and the autocratic behavior of the chief physicians in Germany is completely outrageous and outdated," said Nelson Amaral, 28, another anesthesiologist in Duesseldorf. He starts a new job at the Derriford Hospital in Plymouth, England, in August.

Amaral said that his reasons for leaving were not only about better educational opportunities in England and the higher salary ?- he is making $2,500 net now and will earn about $3,700 in Plymouth ?- but also because he is fed up with what he described as the strong hierarchies among clinic staff.

"If you're not one of the bosses' favorites, they can keep you down forever and make sure that's you're not being promoted at all ?- it's just so arbitrary," he said.

Discontent among doctors has been building up for some time. For the last three months, some 12,000 clinic doctors staged strikes against their work conditions, forcing state-run and university clinics to provide only emergency care. An agreement was reached last week, providing clinic doctors with a pay raise of up to 20% based on their seniority and position, three additional days for continuing education training and a reversal of cuts to their year-end bonus.

The health crisis is far from over though ?- as state-run and university clinics were getting back to regular work hours, doctors at more than 700 city-run hospitals across Germany were threatening to also strike for higher salaries Wednesday.

One doctor who has left says it may be a long time before she returns.

"I thought I'd only stay for a year but now I am so happy with my job that I am not even thinking of moving back anytime soon ?- at least not as long as the situation in Germany is so disastrous," said Nina Lennhof, 30, a psychiatrist who quit her job in Berlin three years ago for a position at St. Thomas' Hospital in London.

"And they really like German doctors here ?- we're used to working hard and not expecting much in return."

end of quote

The failed German Socialism is mainly responsible for the terrible situation in Medicine there.

You neither know something about the German medical system nor about those two persons.

But it's always a joy to read stupidy in such a humourus writing.

It never ceases to amaze me what can be proven with a bunch of laws, numbers, alleged facts or if you have a $ sign or a £ sign or any other sign stuck on the end of your nose or if you eat with a knife & fork, chop sticks or your fingers. We all think we are oh so much better than those next door, cos we drive a bigger car or take longer holidays. Or we are from a bigger ethnic minority in a land loaded with immigrants
Perhaps superiority would be better determined by who can write the longestttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
most boring & opinionated diatribe based on the least known facts in Bigotry for Dummies.

My God can beat up your God . . .

My mother can beat up your god, Hell, my sister can beat up your god.

My sallyDog just whispered in my ear;
"Bring on you god and if she gets near my food bowl I will rip her from A-hole to elbow and stuff her heart down her throat"

Your dog is not a quaker?

Mr Walter Hinteler- Excuse me but I did not make up the story about German Doctors leaving Germany because their salaries are so low.

If you read the story, you would have noted that it comes from USA Today and that the byline is from Dusseldorf. That is in Germany, is it not?

But, You may have a point, Mr. Walter Hinteler. I agree with you. Since I am not a German Citizen and do not have daily interaction with the German Medical system, DESPITE such articles, I MAY NOT KNOW ALL I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE GERMAN MEDICAL SYSTEM.


YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN. I APOLOGIZE......CITIZENS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY, DESPITE THEIR SUPPOSED EXPERTISE, LIKE THE ALLEGED "HISTORIAN' WHO IN REALITY KNOWS VERY VERY LITTLE ABOUT THE USA BUT CRITICIZES IT EVERY CHANCE HE GETS, DO NOT HAVE THE ENTIRE STORY.

I apologize, Mr. Hinteler and do admit that I do not know as much as I should know about German Medicine,,,but you and NIMH, do not know as much as you should know about the USA and its systems..........,

I will remind you and Mr. Nimh of that fact whenever necessary.

I wonder what your quoted article has to do with the persons I mentioned and you referred to.



USToday is a newspaper published in the USA, correct? So you certainly can enlighten me.

Mr. Walter Hinteler: what does the article I quoted have to do with ?

You wrote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BernardR wrote:
Mr. Walter Hinteler's interesting story about his "Greek" Dentist and "Greek" Doctor should not be surprising to anyone familiar with the chaotic German medical scene.


You neither know something about the German medical system nor about those two persons.

But it's always a joy to read stupidy in such a humourus writing.


Then I agreed with you that I do not know something about the German medical system not about those two persons.

I AGREED WITH YOU- READ MY POST!!!


Then I told you that I apoligized because I DID NOT KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE GERMAN MEDICAL SYSTEM.

Then I told you is the reason that I did not know anything about the German Medical System is that I am NOT GERMAN.

And then I told you that YOU, MR. WALTER HINTELER, DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE USA BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A CITIZEN OF THE USA!!!

Now, do you understand??????

No.

ok- I'll put it more simply. You said that I do not understand the German Medical System. I can only assume that you think so because I am not in Germany and I am not German. I WILL ACCEPT THAT.

Similarly, you,Mr Walter Hinteler do not understand the System in the USA and should not comment on it as I will not comment on the German system since you said I know nothing about it.

If you comment on the USA as a non American.

I can comment on Germany as a non-German.

NOW!! do you understand???

I was asking why you connetcted my mentioning of my dentist and the leading physican in my native town with the German medical system.

This has nothing to do with your understanding of that system or mine of the American one.

You said they were Greeks-Not Germans. The article from USA Today- CAPTIONED DUSSELDORF--said that hundreds of GERMAN physicians were leaving Germany because of low salaries. Why do you have Greeks as Physicians and not Germans?

Where did I say so?

Both stayed in Germany 30, 40 years ago after they'd finished university here.

As does the family doctor in a nearby village, who is from Texas, my in-laws family doctor, who is from Lebanon. My ophthalmologist is from Afghanistan.

All are Germans since many years.

Oh, Thank you for the explanation, Mr. Hinteler. When you described them as Greeks, I thought they were not German citizens.

I guess it is like the USA. We have many ethnic groups here but when they become citizens they are referred to as Americans. It is technically not true( America is both North and South ) but it is the appelation used.

Setanta certainly writes engaging prose. Moreover he provides ample detail and interesting argument. The problem is he looks for dispute where none is present, and twists the question under discussion and the arguments of others as needed to support his naturally contentious impulses. The section above os a good example.

The Cold War had much in common with the earlier rivalries of European powers including Englamd vs. France and England vs. Russia, among others. The point is often made that the competition for influence and sometimes power in third world countries between the U.S. (and all the allied western powers) and the USSR during the Cold war was the exact equivalent of the colonial wars among European powers that preceeded it,. I believe this is a great misinterpretation of events, one based on false premises, that ignores salient facts and features of the Cold War, and one that leads to numerous fallacies, such as those so lavishly offered by Setanta.

The USSR was actively promoting socialist revolutions throughout the world, through political, financial, and often violent means. They had openly declared their intent to support such socialist revolutionary movements wherever they occurred, and they did indeed act ion that declaration. While we were opposed to the continuation of European colonialism, we also did not wish to see more of the world fall into the embrace of the backward and tyrannical Soviet system that history has shown, did so much damage to the political and economic development of all its victims. This was qualitatively different from the narrow, selfish interests of the players of the "great game" of European imperialism to which Setanta so blithely equates it/

It is true that we made no move to interfere with any moslem states before the 1950s as Setanta says. (Odd isn't it that he then argues with exactly this point when I made it.) We did indeed interfere with the government of Mossadech in Iran and play the central role in restoring the Phalevi Shah to power. However Setanta should note that just two years earlier we had finally gotten the Soviet occupation army out of Iran after their WWII incursion. We had excellent reasons to fear continues political actions by the Soviets. No doubt wwe made many errors, but we did not establish any colonies.

Setants asserts thst it was a thirst for oil that drove our policy. There is truth in this but the point as Setanta makes it is a distortion of reality. WWII was fought by the Allies with U.S. oil. We depleted huge domestic reserves supplying our own forces and those of our allies during that war. After WWII the world desperately needed new oil supplies to meet the needs of economic recovery and sustained growth in the post war era. At the time the U.S. had more than enough petroleum to meet our own needs, but all projections of worldwide demand showed the need for the development of the rich supply of Middle eastern oil -- something that was accomplished by U.S. British, Dutch, and French petroleum companies with the willing cooperation of the Middle eastern states. In nearly every case the sovereign Middle eastern states demanded and got substantial ownership of both the producing facilities and the oil so produced (in addition to fixed royalties on total production), even though they contributed none of the capital for its development. This is not at all like the economic models applied by colonial powers in their real empires.

The facts remain that the seeds for today's conflict between an aroused and backward Moslem World and the West were all planted during the era of European colonialism and misrule priior to and following WWI.