Immigration and Racism in Britain and USA

herberts wrote:

cicerone & nimh... how many posts of mine do you see in this thread?

46.

herberts wrote:

And how many different and various points have I broached within these many posts?

1.

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nimh... (still smarting after tripping over his own feet with his Shoreditch debacle))...

Quote:

What is your miserable excuse for shunting a Real Australian out of a job?

There are three things you can't give a Real Australian: a black eye, a fat lip - and a job.

I worked with over 20 different immigrant ethnic nationalities and racial groups in the factories of Australia - and never once did I come across an indigenous Australian. They were all too busy down at the pub drinking away their cradle-to-grave welfare cheques.

Dear O dear, tsk tsk, nimh- yet another own-goal off the post. You're not having a good day are you... ?

http://www.liquidninjas.com/bbs/images/smilies/klan/cool.gif

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http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/lo0.jpg

That is funny - I'll give you that.

http://www.xtrememass.com/forum/images/smilies/biggthumbup.gif

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herberts wrote:

If they had been left to their own devices without the colonial intervention of the British traders a couple of centuries ago - Australia, India, Hong Kong and many other exotic locations around the world would today be Fourth World backwater fiefdoms run upon regimes of police-state corruption and gangster tribalism as we can still witness in some of the Middle Eastern states and such as Indonesia and a dozen African hell-holes.

You may be correct about Australia, which was more or less cut off from the rest of the world by its remoteness (and the northern desert). However India and China had well-developed trading systems long before any Europeans showed up. Most of the African "hell holes" to which you refer were until recently beneficiaries of the same British colonial enlightenment which you assert did so much to lift up India and China. Odd isn't it that the magic seemed to work only in some colonies and not in others. Indeed the ungrateful colonials seem to have been united only in their desire to get rid of their former masters.

On the general theme iof this thread -

The assimilation of immigrants creates strains, such as those reported here, in more or less similat forms wherever iit occurs. The complaints of herberts and others sound very similar to those of the American "Know-Nothing" anti immigration parties of the late 19th century. Here they were then complaining about the flood of European immigrants - then mostly Catholic and Jewish - flooding our cities and open territories. Three or four generations later we can see that these people, then described as unwashed, uneducated, and in the grip of alien cultures, were the driving force behind much of the economic growth and industrial & scientific development of the country through the ensuing century.

Even after so much experience with it, America still finds itself a bit wrapped up in similar concerns avbout the latest wave of immigrants. It is easy to understand how Europeans might become concerned with this as well. However virtually all of the historical precedents tell us that immigration spurs greater productivity and creativity in the society that accepts it - in spite of the passing friction and disruption of cultural norms. Certainly Europe cannot escape large scale immigration, given the low birth rates that prevail in the native populations.

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Hear, hear, george.

Some people's thinking is one-sided at best, and racist at worst. Those same people think they alone improved the standard of living or economy by the few "we against them" mentality. All borne out of ignorance, and very little knowledge of history or macroeconomics.

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Herberts:

Quote:

There are three things you can't give a Real Australian: a black eye, a fat lip - and a job.

...substitute any ethnic group for "Australian", and you've got one of the oldest racist jokes on record. Typical for a bottom dwelling bigot.

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You're whistling past the cemetery again, cicerone. It might be better if you just sat back, ate your popcorn and enjoyed the movie.

George... Thank you for the considerable effort you've put into that well-considered post for me to muse over.

But alas and begorra, George - it pains me to say this but it is so full of holes, and flaws, and broadbrush fallacies, and comfortable urban myths, and patent inaccuracies - that I would need to employ the services of a half dozen illegal immigrant cleaners working overtime on the weekends to clean up the mess you've deposited here on the carpet.

A simply appalling litany of half-truths, little white lies-of-convenience, and heaps of politically correct multicultural gibberish straight out of PC Central 101.

Where to begin?

Where's that front-end loader I ordered from the administration here... ? And the rubber gloves...

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/ill.jpg

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herberts wrote:

nimh... (still smarting after tripping over his own feet with his Shoreditch debacle))...

What are you on about? Are you still celebrating that I wrote that intercultural marriages have their problems? Well, duh... Of course they do. That goes both for if the cultures are black-Shoreditch and white-Shoreditch or white-Shoreditch and white-Oxbridge. Kind of stating the obvious, innit? Hardly anything I havent said before, or that much anyone would contest. What victory exactly are you imagining to be taking from that?

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snood... It's always a vexed question where one should draw the line on racist humour. The Jews, just like the English have long-since come up with the most effective solution against racist or nationalist humour directed adainst them -- they've learnt to laugh along with the audience[/i] and take it all in their stride.

Want to migrate to Australia as a young white Englishman and then find yourself being referred to as a 'Pommy bastard' for the rest of your life... ? It's not just the brothers, snood. Chill out man.

http://pages.city2000.net/~mking/graphics/grin4.gif

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herberts wrote:

heaps of politically correct multicultural gibberish straight out of PC Central 101.

I'm pretty sure thats the first time that our resident elder archconservative is accused of such matters, exactly...

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herberts wrote:

Want to migrate to Australia as a young white Englishman and then find yourself being referred to as a 'Pommy bastard' for the rest of your life... ?

Perhaps you should live by your own principles and take the hint of those real Australians, who apparently do not appreciate immigrants like you?

After all, if the cultural differences between you, as immigrant newcomer, and the locals are apparently perceived by them to be simply too unstomachable, then, acting on your own views, you should just respect that - and go back home...

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nimh...

Quote:

I wrote that intercultural marriages have their problems? Of course they do.

nimh... here you are, confirming exactly what I've been banging on about for all of 46 posts... well, d'ur... kicked an own-goal again.

I've been saying of Britain - why have a 40-year programme of mass-immigration which includes races and Islamic cultures which right from year dot your intelligence and raw commonsense tells you will present fundamental problems for integration and assimilation into the indigenous mainstream?

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Any more own-goals and I'm going to have to retire you for a break, nimh. I'm becoming concerned at your disorientation and confusion with this whole debate. You haven't been smoking any of that Amsterdam skunk I hope... ?

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herberts wrote:

nimh...
Quote:
I wrote that intercultural marriages have their problems? Of course they do.

nimh... here you are, confirming exactly what I've been banging on about for all of 46 posts... well, d'ur... kicked an own-goal again.

I've been saying of Britain - why have a 40-year programme of mass-immigration which includes races and Islamic cultures which right from year dot your intelligence and raw commonsense tells you will present fundamental problems for integration and assimilation into the indigenous mainstream?

Ehhmmm ...

"have their problems" Not Equal

"should not exist"

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Or, to explain it to you in more words...

Nothing new about having different cultures living together - salways been like that. Way you now talk about blacks and Muslims, they used to talk about the Irish or the Jews. "They're just too different", "they cant be trusted", our country would return to its idyllic, prior, pure state if only they were removed again - the refrain is as old as the night.

Does interaction with those who are different pose problems of its own? Sure it does. Not much of a shocker there. Is it hopeless as well as pointless and should by extension different cultures better be kept apart altogether? Hogwash. There's problems but that dont mean they cant be dealt with; and just like there are problems connected to intercultural interaction there's also added benefits - they're also the lifeblood of a country's cultural progress. I for one would never want to go back to those stifled, navel-gazing monocultural 1950s, when Holland was white - and a cultural dead water, where nothing happened and nothing changed.

To be honest, I'm surprised by you today, Herberts. You're always this rude, but even in your hatefulness, you're not usually this dense. You're usually at least able to recognize what it is the other guy is saying.

Here's another part of the point you've been ignoring: are the dilemmas in interaction with those who are different merely a question of race and religion? Bullshit. I already brought up the Shoreditch/Oxbridge gap, which throws up barriers and problems as much as any ethnic difference. I, for one, have a lot more in common with my Surinamese-Dutch friend than with my preppy flatmates from a few years ago - and I find it a lot easier to interact with her and understand what she's about than with them. I wouldnt ever want to miss her either.

Difference is a fact of life, it doesnt neatly follow the lines of race and faith that youd like to have explain everything, and youre gonna have to deal with it. 'S a lot to take from it, too - it becomes a part of you, that feels lacking when its missing. One of the things that bothers me here in Budapest is its so white - after all, being surrounded by cultural difference is part of what being Dutch is all about, so of course I miss it - both the problems and the extras that it yields.

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Quote:

Those same people think they alone improved the standard of living or economy by the few "we against them" mentality. All borne out of ignorance, and very little knowledge of history or macroeconomics.

Lol, there he goes again "heehee how ignorant you are", funny little man. Bet hes never even read a history book.

Quote:

Perhaps you should live by your own principles and take the hint of those real Australians, who apparently do not appreciate immigrants like you?

Nope, Englishmen have very little difference to Australians when you look at it. Similar national religon, same race, differ only by 200 years (very very small amount of time in human history). Indeed in general English immigrants end up resembling Australians very quickly. I still fail to see how we can still be called racist when we are talking about the associated culture/belief clashes and not the "badness" of their race (which IS racist).

Quote:

problems but that dont mean they cant be dealt with

Lol, in a girly voice "can't we all just get along?" NO!. World doesnt work like that, as I keep saying (vowels drawn out in annoyed manner). Lol, I bet thats what the sunnis/shiites said:
Shiite A:"We have problems with the Sunnies"
Shiite B:"But we can deal with this, right?"
Shiite A:"Damn Right! Give me my machine gun"
A nice emotional, violin-playing post nimh. But misguided, definately. Your dutch friend is one person, just like my asian friends. We are talking grand-scale.

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nimh - that is a very good imitation of just the sort of feel-good, leftwing-liberal, vacuous, rambling, ideologically multiculturalist gobbledegook which British and continental European schoolchildren have been force-fed by their government-funded teachers all of these past 45-years.

Trying to offer me some vague and meandering dissertation upon the putative benefits of importing hollus bollus millions of immigrant people who espouse Islamic religious principles which are aggressively opposed to that of my own secular-democratic Western cultural tradition is a case of you being embarked upon a fool's errand.

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Quote:

...feel-good, leftwing-liberal, vacuous, rambling, ideologically multiculturalist gobbledegook...

Herberts, I have to admit, I've never seen anyone fill up posts with that many adverbs (Nimh: Bijvoeglijke naamwoorden? Perhaps you know the translation) I think it is... Anyways, congratulations on that score. I'm also quite sure if you IQ was on par with your ego, you'd be the Leonardo da Vinci of modern times.

I've asked you before, and, stirred by your reply on george's post, I'll ask you again. What is YOUR view on the history of Britain?? Please, feel free to elaborate.

Most curious.
Naj.

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RaceDriver205 wrote:

Quote:
Perhaps you should live by your own principles and take the hint of those real Australians, who apparently do not appreciate immigrants like you?

Nope, Englishmen have very little difference to Australians when you look at it. Similar national religon, same race, differ only by 200 years (very very small amount of time in human history). Indeed in general English immigrants end up resembling Australians very quickly.

And yet poor Herberts find himself, out there in Australia, "being referred to as a 'Pommy bastard' for the rest of my life" ... much like he'd call the immigrants to the UK 'lazy Pakis' or the like.

The Australians see the difference all too easily, apparently, and judge it quite negatively ... well, shouldnt Herberts then follow his own advice to the immigrants in Britain and simply bugger off and leave the natives at peace? Go back home?

You know, trying to fit different cultures together is only going to bring heartache, in his world ... so why do that to those hard-working Aussies who were there before him, and dont want him?

RaceDriver205 wrote:

Your dutch friend is one person, just like my asian friends.

Yup - and Herberts wants them all out.

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herberts wrote:

millions of immigrant people who espouse Islamic religious principles which are aggressively opposed to that of my own secular-democratic Western cultural tradition is a case of you being embarked upon a fool's errand.

The Fortuynists and BNP rabblerousers (that includes Herberts) are agressively opposed to the good Dutch and British democratic cultural traditions just like the Islamist radicals are.

Luckily, most Dutch and British of both authochthonous and immigrant origin are opposed to both - in the latter case proving that it is well possible for black and Arab immigrants to accept and adapt to those traditions. For every Mohammed Bouyari there's a dozen Moroccan- and Turkish-Dutch who are engaged in one of the mainstream Dutch political parties, proving Herbert's claims about the irreconcilability of cultures wrong.

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Immigration and Racism in Britain and USA

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