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The Worst President in History?

 
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:06 am
The ACLU also believes Neo-Nazis are protected by the Bill of Rights. Amazingly, Tico, who claims to have a law degree, can't grasp the fact that it is unpopular free speech that needs protection.

And surprise, surprise, Tico is lying yet again!

From the ACLU webiste:

Quote:
The ACLU opposes child pornography that uses real children in its depictions. Material, however, which is produced without using real children, and is not otherwise obscene, is protected under the First Amendment. H.R. 4623 attempts to ban this protected material, and therefore will likely meet the same fate as the provisions stricken from the Child Pornography Prevention Act (CPPA) in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:13 am
Ticomaya wrote:
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
What is the answer to the question, Tico?


You're not asking me to answer what Frank Apisa or blatham thinks about the First Amendment protecting child pornography, are you?

For me, the answer is "no."

gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Waiting


For what?


Just messin' with ya, tico. I like to see you get riled.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:16 am
Ticomaya wrote:
. . . I would point out that the ACLU has taken the position that the First Amendment does protect child pornography. . . .

If you believe the ACLU protects the Constitution, it follows that you must also believe that the Constitution protects child pornography. Please explain how I'm wrong, snood.


You're wrong because your argument is based on the false premise that "the ACLU has taken the position that the First Amendment protects child pornography."

The ACLU does NOT claim that the Constitution protects child pornography and, in fact, the ACLU is opposed to child pornography.

http://www.aclu.org/privacy/speech/14793leg20020508.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:18 am
tico wrote:
You have correctly identified that if one responds that child pornography is protected speech, the other can (and should) be morally outraged. But if one says it is not protected speech, rather than "push in the other direction," I would point out that the ACLU has taken the position that the First Amendment does protect child pornography. The point I expect to be illustrated by this exercise, is that the ACLU has a perverted view of what the Constitution stands for, and it is not sufficient to hold the view that the organization "protects the Constitution," just because that's what they claim they do. They protect their "view" of the Constitution, which for them includes protecting child pedophiles in disseminating child pornography.


What is it about restricting free speech don't you understand? Child pornography should be protected, but child molestation and injury is not. People like you will never see the difference, because people like you like to paint everything with a big brush without understanding the primary issue: free speech. I can understanf fully why a lowyer with your interpretation skills of the Constition and Bill of Rights would be disbarred.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:58 am
His first speech before the NAACP in 6 years...

Quote:
Bush addresses the wealthiest 59 African-Americans. Yes, 59.

Bush finally speaks before the NAACP after 6 years of freezing them out and what does he tout? The repeal of the Estate Tax -- a tax which, Think Progress notes, applies to about 59 African-Americans.

But it does apply to a friend of Bush's, Robert L. Johnson, a millionaire who has campaigned against the tax in the past. And if there's one thing the Bush presidency can be counted on for, it's helping his friends get wealthier -- come Hell or high water. Both of which don't seem quite so far away as they used to.


For Bush and the NAACP, Uneasy Does It

Quote:
President Bush was benefiting from the soft bigotry of low expectations when he addressed the NAACP convention yesterday. But that wasn't quite enough to get him through.

The president was ending his five-year boycott of the nation's largest civil rights organization, and the group was doing its best to "welcome the stranger," as Chairman Julian Bond put it, graciously. When Bush arrived, organizers whisked "Grey's Anatomy" actor Isaiah Washington off the stage, even though he was only 49 seconds into his speech.

Gravity, however, could be defied only so long. A little while after Bush acknowledged that "many African Americans distrust my political party," four men in the Massachusetts section rose to demonstrate that distrust by shouting epithets at the president. The ruckus continued until Bond got up and walked behind Bush to make sure the miscreants were removed.

"Don't worry about it," Bush said. "I'm almost finished." He displayed the enthusiasm of a man undergoing an uncomfortable medical procedure.

"I know you can handle it," Bond consoled.

An hour later, the White House released a transcript omitting that exchange and describing the disruption as "applause."

That wasn't the only airbrushing going on. For what may have been the first time since the 2001 attacks, Bush gave a full-length speech with no mention of terrorism, Iraq or the Middle East. "Compassion" was back, and it was as if, for a moment, the past five years had never happened. Bush, suffering from the recent departure of chief speechwriter Mike Gerson, reprised some of the greatest hits of his first campaign for the presidency:

"We must challenge a system that simply shuffles children through." (C. 2000)

"We ought to welcome religious institutions into helping solve and save America one soul and one heart at a time." (C. 1998)

"Organizations of faith exist to love a neighbor like they'd like to be loved themselves." (C. 1999)

"Government . . . cannot put hope in a person's heart or a sense of purpose in a person's life." (C. 2000)

And, of course: "We need to challenge the soft bigotry of low expectations." (C. 1999)

Since he first uttered those compassionate phrases, Bush has won a mere 10 percent of the black vote in two elections, and his relations with civil rights leaders have been sour. He nodded to that recent history yesterday with some clever self-deprecation.

After a no-frills introduction by NAACP President Bruce Gordon, Bush thanked him for being polite. "I thought he was going to say, 'It's about time you showed up.' " Noting his "good working relationship" with Gordon, Bush got appreciative laughter with an aside to Gordon: "I don't know if that helps you or hurts you."

The president offered the ritual GOP mea culpa -- "for too long my party wrote off the African American vote" -- and paid respect to Bond. "I asked him for a few pointers on how to give a speech. It doesn't look like they're taking."

Bush may have been thinking of Bond's speech opening this week's convention, in which he said the president has "run the country into the ground . . . continued an assault on our civil liberties and civil rights, orchestrated a massive transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top, increased poverty every year they've been in office, created dangerous deficits, substituted religion for science, ignored global warming, wrecked environmental protections."

That was only a marginal improvement on Bond's view a few years back that Bush had "appeased the wretched appetites of the extreme right wing and chosen Cabinet officials whose devotion to the Confederacy is nearly canine in its uncritical affection."

With that for an invitation, it's a wonder Bush didn't continue his boycott. But then, Bush has shown a masochistic streak this week. In Russia, he let himself be filmed massaging the German chancellor's shoulders and was heard using a vulgarity with the British prime minister. At home, he cast his first veto on a stem cell bill that enjoys vast public support.

When he arrived at the Washington Convention Center yesterday, Bush was ready to flatter, from an opening paean to "the heroism of the civil rights movement and the accomplishments of the NAACP" to a closing vow to sign promptly a renewal of the Voting Rights Act. He used the word "together" 15 times and dropped the names of prominent African Americans such as Benjamin Hooks, a former leader of the NAACP. "Good to see you again, sir. . . . You know what I'm talking about, Jesse. . . . I got a friend named Tony Evans. . . . You know, one of my friends is Bob Johnson, the founder of BET."

The audience reciprocated: Bush got a standing ovation when he entered, and the 90 percent applauding easily drowned out the boos from the other 10 percent. The White House transcript listed 57 incidents of "applause" in the 33-minute speech -- and the vast majority of those were genuine. For every grumbled retort offered by an audience member, there was a cry of "yes!" or "right!"

There were, inevitably, episodes of booing and cries of "no!" -- as when Bush affirmed that "I strongly believe in charter schools, in public school choice." But history may overlook such tense moments: The booing, like the heckling, was omitted from the White House transcript.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:59 am
imposter, the proverbial question should be posed to bring you back to reality, is it protected speech to yell "fire" in a theater?

Point being, there are numerous laws that prevent situations that lead to injury. The people trying to run out of the theater in the dark is the actual situation that led to injury, but the yelling of fire is what created the situation. Surely, some of you libs with the brightest of legal minds here could understand a simple principle as this? (Based on my experience of debating here, I am not betting on it however.) And clearly the constitution does not prohibit laws that make it wrong to yell fire when there is knowingly no fire.

The hundreds of thousands of molesters, rapists, and so forth roaming the country, child pornography is one of their specialties, and all you need to prove this is visit prisons around the country. Anybody that is in favor of protecting the innocent, our children, would be in favor of outlawing child pornography.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:06 am
okie, Just another stupid question. There are laws against shouting "fire" in a theater as there are laws against "child molestation." Like Frank says, you are all "morons."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:08 am
I just have one question for "you" people; what cave did all of you crawl out of?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:14 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, Just another stupid question. There are laws against shouting "fire" in a theater as there are laws against "child molestation." Like Frank says, you are all "morons."


Cicerone, you apparently do not grasp the concept. Yelling fire is akin to pornography, not child molestation. Child molestation is the action that causes injury. The running out of the room is what causes injury, not yelling fire. Pornography is similar to yelling fire. Yelling fire when you know there is no fire, is not protected speech, and neither should be child pornography. It is not protected speech. The writers of the constitution would laugh some of you out of the room if they were here to hear you suggest such nonsense.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:29 am
Shouting "fire" has caused harm to many peopole - even death. If the show or movie includes a sigment that includes shouting "fire," it doesn't create any danger to the audience. All those found guilty of using children for child pornography have been charged and imprisoned. There's a big difference that you'lll never see.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:33 am
okie wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, Just another stupid question. There are laws against shouting "fire" in a theater as there are laws against "child molestation." Like Frank says, you are all "morons."


Cicerone, you apparently do not grasp the concept. Yelling fire is akin to pornography...


Surreal. Actually, beyond surreal: Prof. Okie lecturing us on Brandeis! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:36 am
okie wrote;
Cicerone, you apparently do not grasp the concept. Yelling fire is akin to pornography...

What righties are good at is projection; expanding one issue into many to divert it from the main discussion.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:37 am
[quote="okie" Surely, some of you libs with the brightest of legal minds here could understand a simple principle as this? [/quote]

Perhaps, you could understand a simple statement, the ACLU does not support Child Pornography that involves actual children. It is has been stated twice here yet you go on ignoring it. Amazing.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:44 am
cicerone imposter wrote:


What is it about restricting free speech don't you understand? Child pornography should be protected, but child molestation and injury is not. People like you will never see the difference, because people like you like to paint everything with a big brush without understanding the primary issue: free speech. I can understanf fully why a lowyer with your interpretation skills of the Constition and Bill of Rights would be disbarred.


I was simply responding to cicerone's apparent assertion that child pornography should be protected.

Obviously as I read some of the posts, I totally agree with Ticomaya.

P.S. Roxi, you forgot to put a bracket in your quote, and cicerone, you need some spelling lessons.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:51 am
I did not say child pornography should be protected, you moron. I said "free speech" should be protected. You'll never see the difference, because your brain has been calcified by Bush-brain.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:58 am
So you disavow your previous statement that child pornography should be protected?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 11:05 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
I did not say child pornography should be protected, you moron. I said "free speech" should be protected. You'll never see the difference, because your brain has been calcified by Bush-brain.


cicerone imposter wrote:
What is it about restricting free speech don't you understand? Child pornography should be protected, but child molestation and injury is not. ...


Maybe you believe you understand what you thought you wrote, but I am not sure you realize that what you actually wrote is not what you think you wrote.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 11:07 am
okie, This was posted by somebody in a previous post. Please read it and memorize it, you moron.


Quote:
The ACLU opposes child pornography that uses real children in its depictions. Material, however, which is produced without using real children, and is not otherwise obscene, is protected under the First Amendment. H.R. 4623 attempts to ban this protected material, and therefore will likely meet the same fate as the provisions stricken from the Child Pornography Prevention Act (CPPA) in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 11:13 am
cicerone, it would be most helpful if you would learn how to put things in quote boxes so we can figure out whos talking, you or somebody else. It isn't that difficult to do and would clear up alot of confusion.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 11:13 am
Yelling fire in a crowded theater has been deemed action, not protected speech.

Clearly, using a child in the production of porn is child abuse. However, banning the sale of such porn does seem to violate our free-speech rights. What is the legal rationale for banning such porn?
0 Replies
 
 

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